Would Andre Miller be an "upgrade" over JT as PG?

[jjackson345]

Jason Terry has been given a fair chance (4 seasons) to lead the Hawks, but unfortunately he hasn't been able to raise his level of play to the point to help the ATL get into the playoffs.... Terry isn't the sole reason the Hawks are an underachieving team, but he isn't a natural point guard. Terry came into the NBA trying to learn the position...

I admit Terry has had some games in which he had some high assist totals, but it doesn't always translate into being a successful point guard.... Terry's court vision is still suspect and at times our forwards (Reef/Big Dog) handles the ball more than Terry does and unfortunately that led to the higher turnover numbers...

Statistically, Terry may have an advantage over Miller... however Miller is a better overall player who can lead a team (if he has a proper supporting cast)... Jason Kidd started off with the Mavs, but his career did not really prosper until he left for Phoenix and New Jersey.

Terry has a reputation of being a shooter, but when the pressure is on, he fades from games... I get the impression he doesn't want the ball in key situations..

The Hawks need a change... Andre Miller isn't the "perfect" solution, but he would be a better PG than Terry...

[Guest]

a) he's the best player on this team, and should be mentioned with reliable clutch shooters (not great, but someone you'd want on your team). He's hit numerous game winners.

His biggest flaw is, perhaps, his seeming inability to remain agressive with the ball while fulfilling his duties as pg (at the same time). He's shown ability to do both decently well, esp. the prior, though combining them has been a rare occurence.

As for Andre Miller...this goes back to the discussion that Diesel and I had over what sort of team do you want/ how does one want to handle free agency/trading of players/acquiring new ones. A half court set or a more uptemp, running type game. Miller is far superior in the prior (as is JKidd...but that could have quite a bit to do with the personnell of his current team), but Terry is better on the go with his speed and shooting.

Miller's probably lost ot Utah anyhow, so this argument may very well be moot.

[jjackson345]

...... "a) he's the best player on this team, and should be mentioned with reliable clutch shooters (not great, but someone you'd want on your team). He's hit numerous game winners...."

weaseldom, in all due respect, I believe Reef has the edge over JT... However, JT has won some games, but it has been few and between... JT is not a clutch player... He does not want the ball when the game is on the line ... In my humble opinion, a clutch player A) plays hard for 48 minutes, not 24 minutes and disappear B) wants the ball when the game is on the line C) make his teammates better...

The Hawks had a legitimate chance to make the playoffs as late as mid-March.. and then we went on the fateful road trip to Chicago and Memphis and lost badly... Was it all JT's fault? No, but players like Iverson, Kidd, Baron and even Francis arenb't the greatest shooters or "pure" point guards, but these guys play hard for the whole game and "make plays" when the game is on the line...

I don't think JT will EVER be a starting point guard on a WINNING team.... I believe he is best suited as a SIXTH MAN coming off the bench, if the ATL management finds "better" players... The Hawks SHOULD NOT break the bank to keep JT...

On a side note, Chanuncey Billups has taken his game to another level, especially against Orlando in that playoff series... Billups' game has grown and JT's has stalled...

[Traceman]

You said: "Statistically, Terry may have an advantage over Miller... however Miller is a better overall player who can lead a team (if he has a proper supporting cast)..."

I think Miller had a BETTER supporting cast than JT did last year. Let's look at the matchups:

Olowokandi vs. Theo - virtually even. Theo might have a slight edge but it is VERY slight in my opinion. Olowokandi is a true Center with true Center size and I think he is a little more of an offensive threat than Theo.

Brand vs Reef - I think Brand is the slightly better player. He is definitely closer to being a true PF.

Odom vs Dog - Give me Odom's skills all day. He is a do it all type but his playmaking ability and ballhandling are the things that really sepaprate him from Dog.

Richardson/Magette vs Dion/Ira - I'd definitely take the LAC duo.

The bottom line is that not only did Miller have more skilled players around him, he had players around him who had skills that SHOULD have made his job easier. Instead, he struggled. If we had Odom instead of Dog at SF or Brand instead of Reef at PF, I think we would be a playoff team. I don't think you could swap any one of our starters for any one of their starters at the same position and make them a playoff contender.

All that being said, PERHAPS Miller would have made us better than JT does because he is a pass first guy BUT we would still have the same problem of not having a 2nd ballhandler in the starting lineup. Honestly, I don't think Miller ALONE is enough to make a difference. We still need a 2nd ballhandler in the starting lineup and we would still need more interior size/toughness.

[jjackson345]

......"All that being said, PERHAPS Miller would have made us better than JT does because he is a pass first guy BUT we would still have the same problem of not having a 2nd ballhandler in the starting lineup. Honestly, I don't think Miller ALONE is enough to make a difference. We still need a 2nd ballhandler in the starting lineup and we would still need more interior size/toughness....."

traceman... I agree we need more ballhandlers in the backcourt (i.e. Kenny Anderson or maybe if Paul Silas becomes our coach..maybe David Wesley)... I think Dion won't be here next year and DerMarr will likely have limited minutes and DerMarr isn't a solid ballhandler and Dickau doesn't impress me much...

I PRAY we get lucky in the NBA Draft and we can get either LeBron, Carmelo or Dewayne Wade... but its not likely, but you never know...

traceman, the Clippers had big time chemistry problems and with the various contract situations made it worse... however, they had more individual talent than a lot of teams...

What do you think about Magette? He is 6'6 can handle the ball better than Ira/DerMarr and Dion and is an adequate defender.... Would he be someone the Hawks should pursue in the offseason..?

[Guest]

the biggest question with Maggette isn't his worth (he's proven he's an above average player), it's what he thinks he's worth...ie. what sort of contract he's after...I'm not sure that I'd give him much more than the numbers that we've bantered about for JT (40 million, six years)...he hasn't earned a higher number than that.

[Guest]

Statistically, Terry may have an advantage over Miller... however Miller is a better overall player who can lead a team (if he has a proper supporting cast)... "

We still don't have a leader.Jason Kidd is a leader...

Miller IS NOT.I read around that he is a real crybaby

and his defense is bad and he can't shoot.He's overrated.

Sub Miller for JT and we are still leaderless.

If you think Miller is a leader you are sadly mistaken.

[Guest]

agreed. This team stil needs a full time leader...hopefully one that is a true "superstar" as well...

[jaywalker72]

...to get it together for an entire year. He has two years more in the L than Jason.

If anything, the play of Troy Hudson and Chauncey Billups give hope that, with the proper backcourt mate, JT can prosper as a guard on a winning team.

And JT is ALWAYS the guy with the ball in his hands down the stretch, at every point in the game...so that doesn't wash with me.

[capstone21]

Yes, the Clipps had a more talented team but they had the worst cemistry I have ever seen and their coach was TERRIBLE.

The problem is that everyone wanted to carry the ball. No one had a role...You had Odom, Miller, Dooling, and Jaric all fighting to carry the ball.

They had NO role players and everyone wanting to be the star. That is a recipe for disaster. You can't play in those circumstances. Everyone is in the final year of their contracts so everyone took it upon themselves to boost their own stats instead of playing a team game. Miller is a team player, he did not belong unfortantely in that enviroment.

I don't blame Miller for the Clipps woes. He shares part of the blame but he is by far not the cause. They need to restructure their team and get a good coach in there that knows how to coach, they need new management...Sterling in the worst in the league and they need to get players accept their roles.

Miller would be the perfect player to be the point in Atlanta and JT would fit much better on their team. Allow Odom and Jaric handle the ball while JT plays off the ball. JT is a scorer. If we could make a trade JT for Miller I would do it. Miller can score when needed but I think Dog, SAR and Dion would benefit more with him being the forth option and getting them involved in the offence. That is more how Miller would prefer it too.

[jjjohns3]

Hotlanta,how can you say that if Miller was given a good supporting cast he could win??? This guys a loser,maybe he'll develope into a winner one year. But how good a supporting cast does it take to make him a winner????

I'd give away Reef,Theo,Dog,& Glove to get Maggette,Kandi,Odom, & Brand. JT won more games with our team we have now than LAC's lineup which features 4 potential All-Stars. Miller is a inconsistent shooter{he has become better over the years} who personally I wouldn't want taking my possible game-winning shot. Anyone who'd break the bank for Miller is a fool. If we could have them both in our STARTING backcourt I'd like that,but the most I'd spend forhim is 4 mill.

~Peace

[jjackson345]

......"We still don't have a leader.Jason Kidd is a leader...

Miller IS NOT.I read around that he is a real crybaby

and his defense is bad and he can't shoot.He's overrated.

Sub Miller for JT and we are still leaderless......"

Dude81.. Jason Kidd had received a bad rap in his early days at Dallas... he was labeled as selfish, can't shoot... so was Marbury.. however these guys are more of a natural point guard than JT is... The 'jury is still out' on Andre Miller... The HAWKS NEED A CHANGE AND ANDRE MILLER NEED A CHANGE OF SCENERY...

Jay Walker...

Terry, in my opinion, would be better suited as a sixth man coming off the bench, if he stays in the ATL... Terry is a streaky player, but usually it is at the beginning of games....and then he generally fades by the fourth quarter.. If I am not mistaken, against the Lakers in Atlanta, I remember JT putting up an airball at the end of a game (after a timeout)... I know its just one example, but Terry doesn't have the same "will to win" as Iverson, Baron, Francis, Pierce, etc.).. In other words, he can't take the pressure....

On a side note, what do you think about TJ Ford and Dwayne Wade....?

[Guest]

he an excellent pg in a half court set. His shot is somewhat suspect, not owing to range, but mechanics and reliability. He'd be great if we retained GRob and Reef (i.e. no trades)...though the problem of our not having another ball handler in the backcourt would remain a problem.

you sorta have to start from there. I don't want to rehash the conversation about style of play (and hate to keep bringing it up), however the fact remains that with JT's height and somewhat limited court vision, combined with the current makeup of this team, that someone like Miller, who is solid in half court sets and isn't truly a "run and gun" pg would be perfect for this team (as currently built).

Think about it. Short of JT's desire for the ball in late game situations/last minute shots (something I have no idea how you started questioning), Miller would help define roles a little better and solidify the current team with two scorers. He'd get GRob the ball in more efficient spots and run a more steady offense.

Such a move would limit Ira's time, as this year highlighted the fact that he's a three, not a two or really even a swingman.

[Traceman]

him. He's going to be out of our price range unless McDavid decides that he will pay the luxury tax (and he might STILL be out of our price range).

Maggette is a tough, physical and aggressive player. He's not a great ballhandler but he's not bad either. I'd LOVE to have him but I don't see it happening.

[jaywalker72]

I am not saying that he is Allen Iverson, but to say he started hot in games this year is not true.

He, in fact, sacrificed a good part of his scoring early in games, in order to get everyone involved, usually saving his scoring for the second half, if needed.

JT was often left as the one who had to take the offense on his shoulders and create when the team stood around at times this season.

I am not for bringing in a college PG. First of all, we have Dickau, and he needs to develop. Secondly, JT is not one of the best PGs in the L, but he is a good guard, especially on this team. He can be a great starter at "pg" IF there is a ballhandling SG (not a big PG) next to him. So, in my opinion, let's just get the most talented player on the board, regardless of position, and if it's a PG, so be it.

But to say he withered in the second half is erroneous:

Just a few examples:

It was JT that took the big shot over San Antonio and drilled it.

It was JT who hit the clutch shot to seal the game over the Rockets.

He beat the Cavs (not a big deal), but did it with nine fourth quarter points, including the clincher.

He hit huge shots in the first game against the Pacers down the stretch when the Pacers started to make their shots, sealing the game.

He hit the game winner against the Clippers on the road, and then sealed it with a free throw at the end.

He blew out the Bulls, again on the road, with his triple double, and when the Bulls made their run with 7 minutes left in the game, it was Terry who was there to put them away.

He took over the Nuggets game at home, getting 10 second half assists, and nearly getting another triple double.

Against the Clippers, he hit the late three that won that game.

Terry hit one of the big shots late in the game against the Nets April 10th.

Terry scored five straight points at the critical fourth quarter juncture of the Utah game, leading the Hawks home to victory.

He scored 17 of his 21 points in the second half to beat the Lakers in LA.

And, of course, the Kings game, where Terry hit back to back threes in the minute of that upset, while garnering 13 assists.

Again, I am not raising him up there with the all time greats, but it does show that he more than had the ability and the will to win late in games.

[jjackson345]

Jay Walker,

I am not saying JT is bum and he is no good, but he isn't a leader and isn't CONSISTENT... You cited a few examples, against teams like the Clips and Nuggets in which he made a shot, but the true "test of leadership" comes on the road. Our road record was horrendous....Terry is a decent guard, but he is inconsistent... showing up in the 4th quarter MORE OFTEN in games when the game is in the balance is an indicator of leadership to me... I am aware we have a talent problem in our backcourt (i.e. Dion/DerMarr/Dickau) and Terry has to compensate, but a player like T-Mac had to deal with a lack of a supporting cast and Orlando was able to win 40+ games and make the playoffs...

JT has had opportunities (3 full seasons) to take this team to another level and I felt those stretch of games in March with that road trip that took us to Memphis, Chicago and Toronto was the last gasp for the Hawks in regards to the playoffs ...

It is a "team" game, but JT needed to do more than "hit his average"... We needed for him to make plays and 'take over' games....

Maybe I am being a little unrealistic or unfair, but I RARELY see JT take over a game offensively like a Kobe, Pierce, Francis, Iverson, Nash...

Kobe and Iverson aren't "true" point guards, but they make shots, and that's what the Hawks need...

We only won 35 games this year... in a very weak Eastern Conference and it seems we may be stuck with JT, because no free agents want to come to Atlanta , so we have to do a better job drafting "impact" players...

The only way I see this situation turning around is if we get extremely lucky like the Falcons did with Michael VIck... in regards to draft , Lebron James or Carmelo Anthony would definitely change our backcourt situation

[Hawksman]

JT is much better. He is still learning the position and look at his stats when he is STILL learning. 17.2ppg and 7.4apg! That is really good for someone who is STILL learning the position. JT is still developing and Miller is getting old.

[Diesel]

The type of Hawks team is important and you are right, choosing between the two means choosing what kind of team we will have.

I just beleive that with Grob, SAR... that we have a Halfcourt team. Even though SAR is undersized... and Grob has played on a running team before.

I think Theo would be a better running C on offense, but depending on how we play, he could be a halfcourt C as well...

[dgreene]

The Falcons didn't really get lucky with Vick. Everyone acknowledged that Vick was the best player (and had the most potential) in that draft class. But Vick had very little experience at the QB position, relatively poor accuracy numbers, less height than the prototypical QB, and was an underclassman (try naming the last underclassman QB, besides Vick, to have a significant amount of success in the NFL). As a result, the Falcons could trade up relatively easily in order to draft Vick.

The chances of any team trading out of the #1 and giving up LeBron James is very, very, very small. Just from a marketing position, he's the best option by far. And, to be honest, if the Hawks want to improve now, James is exactly what they need (although probably not until his 2nd year): a big SG with really good handles and vision. He would complement JT extremely well. I think Darko would fit in with the Hawks also: a big PF with good handles would add a strong passing (and supposedly some good ball-handling) presence to the interior game. Plus, Ratliff would be able to play his game even better with a big PF next to him. Carmelo is a good young player, but I'm not yet convinced his game will be so much stronger than Big Dog's, offensively or defensively. He's younger, and he takes it to the basket better, but I've got more questions about where he would fit than the other two (both in the near term and long term). Ford just seems really small, and I believe he will fall significantly because of that.

[Guest]

D, we're in complete agreement on what style the team, as currently built, should attempt to play.

SAR is just fast enough to play in an uptempo system, as long as he's got a quicker/explosive sf to finish most of the plays (aka Marion...or maybe even Tim Thomas, Michael Redd, D Mason, etc.). However, SAR paired with GRob, it doesn't matter who you have at the wing positions or center (agree with you about Theo), as they aren't the ones generally finishing the breaks...it's the 3-4 guys, and ours simply lack the athleticism, quickness, and/or power to run the floor.

I'd rather try up tempo, but part of that has to do with my real underlying desire to dump GRob...bring in a star swingman and play him, hopefully at the two...