Would Andre Miller be an "upgrade" over JT as PG?

[Diesel]

There are only 4 SFs that fit the bill that you speak about.

Marion, Maggette, Odom, and Jefferson.

There's a few guys who can play that position... Vince Carter, Spreewell, Demarr....

So what's our answer.

Our answer may not be either of those... But rather, trying something new.

In order to be uptempo, there's 1 player who i think would be great in Atlanta. Ricky Davis. He'd be our 2. He brings attitude. He brings excitement. He might be easy to get being that Cleveland may land james. This would leave the WING MAN as DJ. IF Dj is able, I'd play him as SF. He has everything we need.

JT/James/DJ/SAR/Theo.

[Guest]

You mean Davis, not James I assume...

[jjjohns3]

The fact that there was no team in the League{besides SAC} that had a better supporting cast. JT had to play with one of the WORST in the League{not individually,but as a team,bad chemistry} And it's amazing to me that we improved at all{In Wins} but JT still had a better season as a PG than Miller. True, He's not a leader,but that will develope if we get a coach who can guide JT right{Isaiah Thomas would be perfect,just b-cause he & JT were the same type of player untill Thomas learned to be a leader}

~Peace

P.S. In the lottery draft, we've ALL forgotten about Jarvis Hayes{great 3pt shooter,good ball-handler,good passer & rebounder,& clutch}

[dgreene]

The reason no one is mentioning Jarvis Hayes is that, unless the Hawks get picks 1-3, their lottery pick goes to Milwaukee (I think it's Milwaukee, anyway). I think anyone would be hardpressed to select Hayes over the other players available in the top 3 picks.

[jjjohns3]

If we get the top 3 We go after Melo or Lebron no doubt. But if Jarvis falls we could possibly trade up.{we still have Ind. no. 21} or we might get lucky,we never know what they're{Knight & the crew} working on.

~Peace

[Guest]

The biggest beef I have with JT dates back to his quote early in the year where he stated he didnt' feel comfortable being a vocal leader with guys like Reef, Hendu, and GRob!!! in the locker room.

Going into his fifth year, he's got to realize that, in order to continue to improve his game, his value, and his pg respect (yes, teammates must trust his decisions) he has to seize the day, become vocal. He has the energy, the charisma and smile, and the skills to be a respected floor and lockerroom leader. He needs to grab the brass ring.

[Diesel]

Look at often compared Sam Cassell. Cassell was a Leader at Houston during his rookie season. Has been a vocal leader everywhere he has gone. Knows how to run an offense. JT on the other hand is NOT. He's a pickup specialist. He can score... yes, but he doesn't give us structure that we need for PG.

[Diesel]

JT was surrounded by much better talented Chemistry than Miller in LAC. For instance. NOBODY wanted to be the ball handler here but JT (and really not JT). However, Miller had to deal with Odom, Jaric, and Richardson all trying to run the offense through themselves.

It's funny, in these comparisons, we hear everyone talking about Miller at a Chemistry worse LAC team... But nobody mentions when Miller was in Cleveland. IN Cleveland, Miller was the class of PGs. Even though they lacked talent... When Big Z was healthy, Miller made the most out of that team.

JT has never made anyone but himself better. Even in these games that don't mean much that happen every year after the break, it's not really because of JT's PGing... It's usually because of better defense. 1st year, Lon Moved JT from the 2 and added DJ to the SL. 2nd year, Theo finally gets into shape and Ira plays more.

[dickaufan12]

Thank you, Jaywalker, for saying that Dickau can develop. There are more than a few people, that for some reason, can't wait to get him out of Atlanta. Dan's going to get better. I know it. Hopefully other people will start to see that. If he's given a chance to actually play a full season, he can prove everybody wrong.

[jjjohns3]

To say that Miller had Jaric,Odom,& Richardson all wanting to be the PG is absurd. Richardson & Jaric are BACKUPS meaning that most times They AREN'T on the floor with Miller. To say that JT had a better supporting cast just goes to show how far your head is up your BUTTCRACK. Who here would rather have Odom/Maggette/Kandi/& Brand???? All of those guys have potential to be All-Stars,while ATL has

GRob/Reef/Theo/Glove,Ira. Glenn is a former All-Star & pretty much{unless he shows me otherwise}washed-up. Reef has to step up & become the SELFISH player we need,when he does he will be a perennial All-Star. Theo may come back 100%, but I strongly doubt it. Glove/Ira,NUFF SAID......

True,I agree JT has to become a VOCAL LEADER & won't get that big payday he wants until he does;but Miller has shown me that he's a proven LOSER & couldn't win when Odom WAS HEALTHY. And I won't drop that tag from him until he proves me wrong,cause I'd rather be UNPROVEN than a PROVEN LOSER......

~Peace Nizzle

[Diesel]

OF course not... You're responding to Dickaufan?

Still... this is what I said:

In reply to:

---

JT was surrounded by much better talented Chemistry than Miller in LAC.

---

What I meant by that is that it's easier for JT to work with SAR, Glover, Theo, and Grob than it is for Miller to work with Maggette, Odom, Khandi, etc. BTW, I wasn't talking mainly about talent... However, if I were... Big Dog, Theo, and SAR have all been Allstars. Most of the Clipps have never smelled an allstar game.

Now, let's get some AP quotes for you...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketbal...ippers_wrap_ap/

In reply to:

---

"The talent we had were young guys who hadn't really had a payday yet and they were very concerned about that payday," Piatkowski said. "So that caused a tremendous amount of problems with regard to selfishness. When things got out of hand, instead of playing as a team to get back in games, guys just kind of started looking out for themselves."

---

So, first... The Clippers were a very selfish team. But that's not all...

In reply to:

---

The Clippers were forced to adjust to point guard Miller, who was acquired from Cleveland in a trade for Darius Miles. Miller led the NBA in assists last season, but ranked ninth this year.

The quiet Miller was the exact opposite of the flashy Miles, and at times Miller felt his role was never defined.

"Andre has taken a lot of heat here and there," Rooks said. "But you have to have people to pass the ball to and in the right places to pass the ball. There were a lot of times this year that we didn't execute plays, and maybe that was a lot of the reason why he couldn't get assists."

---

Compared to Miller, JT had no problems. The whole Clipper team is playing Street ball. NOt running plays. And Like I said, they're nominating anyone with the ball to be PG. That's mostly Odom and when they're in the game Richardson and Jaric. When has JT ever experienced SAR playing for a contract... saying... I'm out to get mine? There's that one constant.... JT plays on a team full of players that lack selfishness. The same is not true of Miller. So you say that Miller had it easier because he's surrounded by more talent?

Check that. The talent difference may be arguable... However, he played surrounded by guys who would not play TEAM Basketball. Under those circumstances, it's impossible to be a good PG (the way he plays).

Miller needs Structure.

If you give Miller Structure, regaurdless of the talent around him, he will make them better (ala Jason Kidd).

However, if you give Miller NO Structure... He won't.

It's the opposite with JT.

JT can't play with Structure. He buckles in a structured system. That's why he has never been able to run PLAYS well. Too much structure. However, if you put JT in a run and shoot atmosphere where Structure breaks down.. He becomes a really good player. The problem... We need structure. Structure will really help the games of SAR and Big Dog. Choas kills us because without Structure, Big Dog becomes what we had this season. With structure, SAR disappears and becomes a rebounder/2nd option. That's why I begged for Lon to define roles and to run plays... But he never did that consistently. He deserved to be fired.

In a dream world... We'd have Miller at Point and Poppivich or Sloan coaching. Our team would have good structure and role. We'd dominate.

[Guest]

. The 'jury is still out' on Andre Miller... The HAWKS NEED A CHANGE AND ANDRE MILLER NEED A CHANGE OF SCENERY.."

That's what they said about Shareef.Don't you guys

ever learn?The guy wasn't playing well WHILE ODOM

WASN'T PLAYING EARLIER THIS YEAR.His assist wasn't

as high as they were in Cleveland because they

don't have the 3pt threats like Person and Murry.

Andre Miller has never lead a team anywhere.He can't

shoot,can't defend and he seems lack passion on top

of that.

We need a star and leader.We don't have either.SAR/

Puppy Dog/Theo aren't perennel(sp?)allstars.They made

it once, but so did Chris Gatling and Tyrone Hill.

Miller isn't that good of a player anyway.

This has nothing to do with JT...It's about us getting

a leader and somebody who is willing to step up in

the 4th.Miller hasn't showed me the ability to do ]

either thing.

The change of scenery doesn't fly with me.I'd rather

have Chuncy Billups more than overrated Andre Miller.

[Guest]

Addition to that, I'd like to see us get a player that

is actually worth watching.Someone that is actually

entertaining and not boring as Miller/SAR/Robinson/

Theo/JT are.We dont have the player or a exciting

system like the Kings have.

[Guest Walter]

WITH GRob Atlanta had a single, on court chemistry destroyer that outweighs any difficulty an abundance of talent created for LAC. The guy wasn't supposed to be our first option, yet he took 100 more shots in 13 fewer games/500 fewer minutes than JT and SAR! HELLO!?!?!?!?!?!? WITH or WITHOUT GRob the talent discrepency between LAC and ATL so favors LAC it's not even funny.

BOTH teams (Atl WITH GRob only) had huge chemistry issues. You only had to watch the GD team WITH and WITHOUT Big Hog to KNOW that for the Hawks! Clearly however you slice the extent of each team's chemistry issues, LAC was far more talented.

I'm not down on Miller but I'm not down on JT either. I think they are both very good players who deserve a better situation than found in LAC for Miller and any team with Big Hog for JT.

[Diesel]

The player that you're talking about DOESN'T exist. Even if we got Kobe, Tmac, or KG..> We'd still not have what we need. What we need is better team chemistry. ARR, your problem has always been that you believe that ONE player should make the difference? It's not about 1 player, it's about the team. Right now, we have a good collection of players but none of them function to their fullest because we lack TEAM Chemistry. Didn't you learn anything from Kobe earlier this season. He showed that regaurdless of how well 1 player plays, without a good team effort, it's a waste.

So, if we were to get Miller. He's more likely to workout as a top notch PG with us than he was with the Clipps. Also, what were Murry and Person before Miller? You say that they are the reason for his success... What were they before he got to town? I know... Sorry.

[Diesel]

Grob was only here for 1 year. Since we have had Terry we have finished in the bottom 8 every year and he has yet to learn to play PG. Yet to learn to RUN plays.

Walter, here's what you fail to get:

Big Dog has already proven himself. He has already played for a Championship Caliber team and has been a very productive member of that team. BUT... Terry has failed to make anyone around him better. Don't use Big Dog to bail JT out. How many plays have you seen JT run in 4 years? 2 Pick and roll and give and go. ANY playground in the world can teach those. However, Terry doesn't show recognition.

Don't get me wrong, Terry is not the only problem in our Chemistry breakdown... However, the PG is the most important part of the equation for most teams.

[Guest]

Also, what were Murry and Person before Miller? You say that they are the reason for his success... What were they before he got to town? I know... Sorry."

The same thing they've been all of their careers....3pt

shooters.When you have high percentage shooters like

Person you're assist are more likely to pile up.

Same thing with JT.....when Newble gets hot from the

outside you'll see JT pile up the assist.

I'm not trying to say that Miller isn't a true PG, but

I'm saying he's not a 17PPG 11APG PG.

Chuncy Billups is a example....he steps up in the 4th.

Paul Pierce is the reason Boston can win despite lack

of talent from the bench,PG and center.

I want to get these players:

Nick Van Exel-I felt he was the major reason the Lakers

didn't advance quicker than they did, but I think he's

alittle better attitude now.

Corey Magette

Jumaine Jones

With Andre Miller instead of JT...Who still do you go

to when you need a big basket

Spurs have Duncan/Parker

Lakers have Shaq/Kobe

Kings have Peja/Bobby Jackson

Nets:L.Harris/Kidd(sometimes)

Detroit:Billups/Corless Williamson

Boston:Pierce

Dallas has Van Exel/Dirk/Nash

Philly has AI

Utah:John Stockton(Doesn't score alot, but sometimes

will give the big shots)

When we need a score in the middle of intense games

late in the game who do we go too?Miller?Nah...Theo?

Nah....SAR..can't count on him......DJ?Nah!

The Hooisers theory is rather touching,but the offense

has breakdowns in the 4th alot of times and you need

players that will make big shots.

Two guys I want are Van Exel or Allan Houston(giving

some bad contracts in return)

[Diesel]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/wesley_perso...x.html?nav=page

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lamond_murra...x.html?nav=page

Look at the numbers carefully. While Person was a good 3 PT shooter, his numbers didn't really perk up until Miller came along. Same for Murry. He wasn't a great 3 pt shooter but his numbers rose while playing with Miller. The reason being is because Miller knew how to do all these things that you guys claim JT can (and he don't). Miller was a drive and dish PG. He could control the game. 2 guys who were role players became good players with Miller. AND Miller led the league in Assists while scoring 18 ppg. I won't even mention how good they were when Big Z was injury free.

The point is that if you give Miller a cast and structure, he'd do far more than JT wish he could.

[Guest]

Look at the minutes increase for Person.

As for Murry,his 3pt fg% was career high,but

so was his ft percentage and he had his 3rd

best year in rebuilding.

Not to mention the fact that Cleveland had no

go-guy so those guys scored more in the flow of

the game.Every team has a few scorers no matter

how bad the team is(Denver is a rare exception)

Miller doesn't make much of a difference.A healthy

Big Z does and we would have made the playoffs

probably if we had him instead of Theo.

My point has nothing to do with JT...It's the fact

that we don't have players that can just make

something happen when you need it.Miller doesn't

give us that guy.

Look at Van Exel/Billups/PP when the game plan

has went astray and you need a hoop badly these

guys can get the job done most of the time.

Sure Miller can dribble around on a optionless team

(knowing the team has no chance to accomplish any-

thing)and see a couple of open jumpshooters, but

when he has to worry about how many shots guys

like Brand/Kandi/Richardson/Corey get the it becomes

more tough that passing to pure shooters like Person.

You can claim that Miller made Person score 15PPG..

However,you want Person and you know it's because

he can play 30MPG and get you 14PPG and make

shots.Miller didn't make Person or Murry a better

player....he sure as [censored] didn't make Brand/Kandi

and the other guys better.Miller failed when he

is expected to win just like Shareef.

He didn't play well when Odom was playing so

don't blame it on Odom.I watched Miller when

JT toasted him badly,and I watched Miller in

LA and he's never impressed me.

[Guest]

Is Miller a better PG than JT?Yes

My point is that we need a leader and a guy

that will step up when things go wrong and

you need baskets.Miller doesn't improve us

in very many area's.

No matter how many true PG's you have, defenses

will still shutdown the offense at times and you

need guys to step up.We need a guy like Billups

or Van Exel in my opinion.

Not to mention that Miller is a libility in basically

everything but passing.You can say he can average

15PPG....but he's a guy you can back off of in the

4th period because he's a horrible shooter.

Miller is just like Shareef.