Would Andre Miller be an "upgrade" over JT as PG?

[Guest]

Nobody would have agreed with you (Chauncy over Miller) prior to this season...he's finally somewhat living up to the draft potential he exuded.

[Guest]

Who said 17 and 11? Do you know how few pg's have averaged those numbers, let alone both of them (esp. the asst.) in recent memory...none. No one's close...but he could very well be 13-14 and 9-10 assts. That's pretty [censored] good.

[Guest]

PS - Parker is the most overrated pg in the L imo. Here's the Spurs standard offense - Parker dribble down - if he can penetrate or dish to an open wing man, take it. If not, then you dump it down to the post and run the play from Duncan - he's almost a point-forward in the strangest sense of the word...

[Guest]

I don't believe he's a 10APG player on a team with

expectations.He didn't make Brand better or nobody

else on the Clippers.

There is very little Miller can do.You can even lay

back off of him because of his poor shooting.He

isn't that good of a player.He's never won either.

We aren't winning crap until we get a player that

that is a leader and or will step up and deliver when

you really need it.Miller isn't that player and neither

is Damon"I need Pippen"Stoudamire.DS put up some

good numbers on another optionless team A DECADE

AGO.....But he or Miller will not make the Hawks from

a bad team to a good team.

That's why Boston beat Indiana.Indy had more talent,

but PP can make things happen when the gameplan

breaks down.Indiana don't have those guys.Reggie

is too old and injuried.

[Diesel]

I want Persons for the same reason I want Miller. Better Chemistry. Miller is better chemistry in that he can distribute the ball (argue til you're blue in the face... This is what we need). I want Persons because at the end of the day, every championship quality team needs a three point threat. Without one, you're lost. It makes for good chemistry. I don't disagree that if we would have had a healthy Big Z we would have made the playoffs. Again, he would have given us something that Theo can't. Size and scoring from the C position. However, over the course of this discussion, it should be obvious that our problems are more than just one player. However, I think if we got some structure and made a few changes, we would see a world of difference in our team.

[Guest]

I really understand what you are saying...I think the

difference is I feel what we need first is someone

that will actually help when the game is one the

line.You start by getting the correct players.The

biggest problem is that when the game is on the

line we have nobody we can look too.

Odds are that most games are going to be close and

you need someone that had the mind to take his game

to another level.

Reef/JT/Miller/Robinson never take their game to another

level when it is needed.

Like Orlando can say...We would've won,but we just

couldn't stop Billups when we needed too.

[Diesel]

Well, one thing about the game being on the line....

Those players are made... not traded for. If we make the right moves, we will have good chemistry. THEN we will have someone who will step up in the clutch. For instance, look at Minn. KG is seen as the Life of that team. However, over the course of 2 years of playing Hudson has become a player who could STEP UP and be clutch.

Same with Billups in Detroit. Same with Jefferson in NJ.

The point is that if we get the Chemistry right, a clutch player will step up. In fact, the team will know who to throw the ball to and he will perform.... Sorta like Horry in LAL.

I know your thoughts are that we need a Superstar. Again, those guys aren't so easy to comeby. Usually, the Superstar is drafted and if you ever had opportunity to trade for one, it will cost you the whole team...

However, we can still win with a few stars and good Chemistry. That's Detroit Bad Boys. Everybody knew their role. Everybody played together... There was great Chemistry... If you were to break them up, only Isiah would stand out... But together..... [censored].

[Guest]

I dissagree,Hudson was already taking the steps in

Orlando....Orlando was just stupid enough to let

him go.Same with Billups....He improved in Minnesota

and continued....

Nobody on our roster is that kind of player.

he don't even have to be the best player on the team.

Hudson/Billups aren't the best on their team.

I want us to be entertaining.We haven't been

fun to watch in a LONG TIME.Nobody on our

roster is fun to watch...INCLUDING JT.He throws

up alot of three's.

[Diesel]

Hudson/Billups wasn't though. In Denver/Boston, Billups was considered a Bust. Hudson played OK in Orlando but they felt that he just wasn't what they needed. They needed Jacque Vaughn. Still though... We have players like that...

Dion could easily become the next Billups. Look at him. He has the ability to take over a game. He's just not there. Reason being is that he hasn't played enough and hasn't developed the chemistry with our team. Again... Given the right chemistry, I think we have somebody who can become... Not to mention DJ? He has all the physical attributes (if he comes back 95% or better). He plays clutch defense. He can shoot from outside. He can fly.

[Guest]

I doubt DJ ever amounts to anything on court.He

did nothing but hit a few three's.He's shown no

other game.His jumper is still bad(39% shooting

SF anyone?)can't rebound, and still no ability to

get to the basket.Besides,I think he'll be gone

anyway.

Dion is a nice spare part.

I'm fully aware of of Billups being considered a

bust a while ago.....But it was clear in Minnesota

that he was rasing his game and so uncle joe

signed him.

Orlando not thinking Hudson was what they needed

is their problem.That doesn't mean that Hudson

didn't start steping up with him.

[Guest]

He's not fun to watch cause he throws up a lot of threes? And then you rave about PP (and Walker to a degree). Talk about the dwarf calling the midget short...

[Guest]

That's really all JT can do is shoot 3's and he's not

all that good at that either.He's nothing but a low

percentage scorer.

[Guest Walter]

they lost 30% more with Big Hog!?! They won because of chemistry!!!!!! They won because without Big Hog taking 100 more shots in 13 fewer games/500 fewer minutes, turning the ball over almost 4 times a game, and playing horrible, matador D, they could actually play as a team while not resenting the on court team killer in Big Hog!

EVERYBODY played better WITHOUT Big Hog! DG, JT, Ira, Theo, AND SAR all had better statistics (per 48) without HOG in the lineup. The team played FAR better, PERIOD!

...

I agree that Miller's situation in LAC was not ideal but it wasn't any worse than JT's in Atlanta. He lacked a 2nd ball handler and he had a if not THE single worst on court team killer in Big Hog. Certainly he had less talent on his team Miller did with LAC. You can't be serious to try and suggest otherwise. PULEAZE.

W

[Diesel]

None of the teams that that squad beat were about anything. I consider our wins over LAL, SacTown, San Antonio, Utah (away) and Philly (away) to be more important wins. You keep throwing up home games against lesser teams and teams on slides as if they should make a great difference.

Next you'll be saying that we really missed DJ and he was the key to us losing this season.

OPEN your Blind Eyes Walter.... We have MANY Chemistry Problems... and MOST of them revolve around the fact that we don't have GOOD Point Play. A real PG would have been able to successfully incorporate Big Dog into the Offense without trying to make him first option.

[Guest Walter]

This team had a 19-17 record without Hog the 2nd half of last season (remember that was WITHOUT Theo and with half the team injured) and a 9-4 record without Big Hog this year!

And that was supposed to be JT's fault!?!

D@MN! JT's fault! It wasn't JT that was out when we were winning! What do you have coke bottles for glasses or is your ego getting in the way from seeing the OB-VEE-US.

"Big Dog HAS already proven himself". That's why he was traded FIRST from Milwaulkee and for so little (the pick shouldn't have been below 20 had Big Hog not been such an on the court team killer) to us. Big Hog has played ONE good half season of TEAM basketball his whole career if that. That year in 6 fewer games Hog still shot 160 more shots than Allen and in the same amount of games took 330 more shots than Cassell. THIS is Big H-O-G at his best! Even when he is "at his best" he is a HOG!

The year before that Milwaulkee was a 7th seed! They had more talent than a 7th seed. Maybe GRob's less than 1 to 1 Assist to TO ratio and horrible paper weak defense had something to do with that. Maybe Allen was right! The year after? Milwaulkee didn't make the playoffs. There is no excuse for that! Hence Milwaulkee trades players and the first player they trade is...............(drum roll)...........Big Hog! Maybe that should say something to you about what Big Hog has proven.

The truth is that Big Hog is getting worse. His best year are already behind him. He has always been an enigma if not on the court team killer. Off the court he is no charmer. He is the teams biggest chemistry problem BY FAR! EVERY SINGLE ATLANTA HAWK PLAYED BETTER (PER 48) WITHOUT BIG HOG! All you have to do is look at the team (when remotely healthy) before he arrived and without him since he arrived to observe this.

...

Now back to JT, how can this be attributed to JT when not only are his numbers very good but the team wins at a 28-21 (19-17 last year without Theo and 9-4 this year without DJ) clip WITHOUT Hog and with a CBA player in his place since JT being made the fulltime, starting Pg half way through last season?

Remember the team wins only 37.5% of it's games with the "talented" Hog.

W

[KB21]

Blaming everything on the point guard when it is so blatantly obvious that this team is better without Big Dog, or if Big Dog takes on less of a scoring role with the team.

We beat no one away that was worth anything with Big Dog, so what the [censored] is your point?

That this team isn't a good road team?

Big Dog's scoring makes absolutely no difference in what this team does. It's his lack of defense and his lack of an all around game that makes the difference, in a negative way.

Look at the stats. We are nearly 11 points better defensively without Big Dog, while we are only 4 points worse offensively without him.

His scoring doesn't make any difference, but his lack of defense is overwhelming.

I say again. Had this team not made that trade last year, they would have probably made the playoffs.

[Guest Walter]

...shoot 100 more shots in 6 fewer games than Ray Allen in the Milwaulkee's only good year. YOU CAN'T MAKE BIG H-O-G ANYTHING OTHER THAN A 1ST OPTION BECAUSE HE IS A HOG! The ball is lost (TO) and the offense stalls when he touches the ball. Black hole. Gone.

You've already been shamed regarding who we beat and how we beat quality teams without Hog by another poster. As if anyone with the team first and foremost in mind would long for the days of a 37% winning percentage WITH Hog recalling all those "big wins" but reject the 65% winning percentage WITHOUT him. PULEAZE! Who gives a [censored] about the team when we can rally around Big Hog's leading us to a 37.5% winning percentage and less than a hand full of "big wins" over the near entirety of a season. I'd rather support Mr. 37.5% than JT, who since being made the full time, starting Pg the 2nd half of last season has led the team to a 28-21 record without Big Hog in the lineup. YOU ARE A FARCE!

[mrhonline]

In reply to:

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PS - Parker is the most overrated pg in the L imo. Here's the Spurs standard offense - Parker dribble down - if he can penetrate or dish to an open wing man, take it. If not, then you dump it down to the post and run the play from Duncan - he's almost a point-forward in the strangest sense of the word...

---

Not to be picky, but name one point guard in the NBA who wouldn't be expected to do the same thing if paired with Duncan and coached by Pop...

It's hard to be overrated when you are Parker's age; overhyped, maybe, but not overrated. He'll end up being one of the top 5 PG's in the league by his prime if the Spurs don't steal Kidd, otherwise he'll be the quickest SG in the league...

[Diesel]

The comparison is laughable. Cassell has forgotten more about being a PG than JT will ever know.

However, since you want to get the Big dog Player file out and study the numbers from 2 years ago... Study these...

With Cassell:

FG% = 46.8%, PPG = 22, TO = 2.88 pg

With JT:

FG% = 43.2%, PPG = 20.8, TO = 3.59 pg

BTW, all his years with Cassell as his PG are similar to those numbers above. You brought this in... so let me slap you with it...

Do you think a consistent player like Big Dog just all the sudden forgot hot to be consistent...

Even last year in Milwaukee trauma year...

FG% =46.7%, PPG=20.7, TO = 2.64...

What do you think happened? I'll tell you what... He went from order to Choas. He went from a PG who knows how to get him his looks to a Guy playing a pickup game.

That's your proof.

[Diesel]

When did I blame it all on the PG?

I have said that we have a MULTITUDE of problems...

So no one person is totally at fault.

How often do I have to sayit... Doesn't your MSU program teach reading comprehension?

Now...

Keith...

Would the hawks be better or worse if we traded JT for Miller. That's the question?