Woodson's future

[SuperSavvyNation]

I'm hearing a lot of people rethinking their stance on MW's future with the Hawks. Don't. Please look at this from a larger perspective than just these past few games (which I think by and large are a result of the players deciding to raise their intensity and focus level).

In fact, these wins versus Boston create a greater reason to can the coach ASAP. We can begin to see the potential of this team if they are focused and motivated. If we add a couple of pieces and then manage this team with greater competence....then and only then will we have a product with potential to do some special things.

This is only the starting point. Hopefully, ASG will understand this too and see the need (despite the past few days) to put a coach in place that will see the Hawks realize their potential.

Zbo

[AHF]

I agree with you but don't want to dwell on that right now. I want to enjoy this team making its run and then discuss that after we have played out last game this season.

[frosgrim]

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I agree with you but don't want to dwell on that right now. I want to enjoy this team making its run and then discuss that after we have played out last game this season.

QFT.

I just want to enjoy the team winning as many of these playoff games as possible. This series has enough going on in it to even start worrying about Woodson's furture with theam.

Go Hawks! Take a huge win tonight and we can win the series!

[Lascar78]

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I agree with you but don't want to dwell on that right now. I want to enjoy this team making its run and then discuss that after we have played out last game this season.

That's pretty much how I feel. I'm focusing on the overwhelming positive right now.

[AnnArborHawk]

Well you have to give the guy SOME credit. He has outcoached Doc in the past two games.

[exodus]

It feels strange to be a Hawks fan at this time of year and not be thinking about the offseason.

[JackB1]

I agree this raises the question, why cant they play like this during the season? we BARELY made the playoffs and can't risk that again. We cant UNDERACHIEVE all season and be OK with it.

Woodson still needs to go. I have seen enough to make an educated decision. A few playoff games doesn't erase a whole season of games. I saw a spot from game 4 where Woodson was talking to Bibby during a Boston foul shot and Bibby gave him that "WTF" look again

[Traceman]

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Please look at this from a larger perspective than just these past few games (which I think by and large are a

result of the players deciding to raise their intensity and focus level)

.

In your attempt to discredit Woody's TERRIFIC performance in this series, in my opinion, all you are doing is VALIDATING that Woody has not been the problem all along but the PLAYERS have been the problem. If what you say is true:

1) What made the players decide to raise their intensity level? Shouldn't they have made this decision a long time ago? Did they think they would be successful if they DIDN'T play with intensity and focus?

2) If Woody is the coach and they can play the way they did in games 3 and 4 simply because THEY decided to raise their focus and intensity level, what is the problem?

Bottom line, according to your logic, if the players play with focus and intensity, apparently Woody's coaching is just fine! Well at least it is good enough to beat the league's best team in back to back games in the playoffs.

[coachx]

Good post.

Your never afraid to go against the grain.....so to speak.

[dig]

I pretty much echo the sentiments of this thread... we haven't won with superior coaching as much as more energy, athleticism, and back-to-back amazing individual efforts, but with how we're winning I'd rather not dwell on Woody's ineptitude.

Our half-court offense is still terrible -- unless JJ goes ballistic like in the 4th (not exactly sustainable, and certainly not related to coaching)... but we've won by dictating the tempo for stretches and forcing the Celtics to play to our strengths. The problem is Woody can't motivate the team to play with this energy regularly, and that his coaching "philosophy" does not include the up-and-down game we need to generate offense. That's not something that will change, either.

My concern is that this glimmer of hope that we've seen this postseason will save Woody's job and we'll suffer through another year with him at the helm. We can't really add any significant pieces over the summer, especially if we re-sign Smoove (now a max-lock) and Chill (I'm sure he's made some $$, too, during the playoffs)

[PureGreatness]

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Please look at this from a larger perspective than just these past few games (which I think by and large are a

result of the players deciding to raise their intensity and focus level)

.

In your attempt to discredit Woody's TERRIFIC performance in this series, in my opinion, all you are doing is VALIDATING that Woody has not been the problem all along but the PLAYERS have been the problem. If what you say is true:

1) What made the players decide to raise their intensity level? Shouldn't they have made this decision a long time ago? Did they think they would be successful if they DIDN'T play with intensity and focus?

2) If Woody is the coach and they can play the way they did in games 3 and 4 simply because THEY decided to raise their focus and intensity level, what is the problem?

Bottom line, according to your logic, if the players play with focus and intensity, apparently Woody's coaching is just fine! Well at least it is good enough to beat the league's best team in back to back games in the playoffs.

im not a big fan of woody but this makes perfect since. unfortunatley someone will try to make another excuse

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Most of the fan base was in denial 2 months ago, about what it would mean to this team, the city, and the fans about the impact making the playoffs would make. We hadn't been there in so long, that people truly forgot what playoff basketball was really like.

70% of this fan base were complaining about how even though we had won somethibg like 10 or 11 out of 15 games in our quest to make the playoffs, that it meant nothing because we had lost just about every big road game vs teams near us.

They complained that we only won 37 games, and dropped the last 2 games ( even though we weren't going all out to win those games ).

They whined and complained about how cheesy it was for Woody to put pics of the championship trophy in the players' lockers.

They had something to say when Woody said something about the Hawks winning the championship THIS YEAR.

They were embarrassed after Game 1 and Game 2 to be a Hawks fan.

They fully expected us to also get blown out in Game 3.

But Game 3 changed everything, because, like the Georgia Bulldogs men's basketball team, the only thing that REALLY MATTERS, is how you play in the postseason. And if you can make a little noise in the postseason, it may be all the motivation and confidence you need going into next season.

In Game 3, the fans came out in droves. The arena was as loud as it's ever been. And the players and coaches responded with a groundbreaking win. A relatively easy win, to be honest. Most saw it as a great win, but the only win we'll probably get in the series.

Game 4, in which the Hawks faced as much adversity as they've faced all year, saw this young team finally "Rise Up" and play like veterans. And in the case of JJ and Smoove, play like SUPERSTARS.

It also saw Woody, for the first time in many people's eyes, not only coach a good game, but show EMOTION while doing it. He has made adjustments once we came home to play. And those adjustments have worked very well.

The same goes for our much maligned captain, who people complained about not being vocal enough and not showing much emotion throughout games. Yet, while he was in "the zone"" durng Game 4, you could see him yelling and beating his chest, ala what kobe Bryant does.

The fact is Zbo, these last 2 games, no matter what happens the rest of the series, has done more for the confidence of these players, the coaches, the fan base, and Atlanta as a NBA city, than all of the 9 years of losing has done to completely suck the life out of all of us.

It's the same thing that went on with the Nashvlle Predators this yar in the NHL playoffs. They were a franchise that was really on the brink of movng out of Nashville and into Canada. The fan base, even though the Preds had mde the playoffs 2 straight years, was fragile at best.

And like the Hawks, the Preds had to face the best team in the league, the Detroit Red Wings. And like the Hawks, Detroit wiped the floor with the Preds in games 1 & 2. But when they went back to Nashville for games 3 & 4, it was the Preds that looked like the championship team. They played an inspired Game 5 in Detroit, tying the game on a dramatic goal in the final minute of regulation, but lost in OT. In Game 6 in Nashville, Detroit took control of the game late, and closed out the series.

The Predators have gone from an organization that was on the brink of being gone from Nashville, to a franchise that saw the city actually give a damn about hockey. It also saw the Preds coach get an extension on his contract.

Boston's 66 regular season wins means JACK S--T right now. And the same goes for our 37 regular season wins. Woody's greatest asset as a coach, is that he tries to keep his team from going into panic mode. He's done it all year, even when the team wasn't playing well.

Say what you want about him, but he was right all along about what this team needed to do to win games. After getting blown out in Boston, I think the players finally saw what Woody was talking about.

If you DEFEND and REBOUND THE BASKETBALL, you'll be able to RUN, which will enable us to win the game.

If we play 2 close games, but lose to Boston in 6, he'll probably be retained,unless he can bring a guy like Avery ( if he gets fired ) or Fratello in. If we force the series to go 7 games, he'll get a 2-year extension, but have a short leash at the start of next season.

If we "shock the world", there is no question that Woody deserves a new long term deal.

[frosgrim]

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Please look at this from a larger perspective than just these past few games (which I think by and large are a

result of the players deciding to raise their intensity and focus level)

.

In your attempt to discredit Woody's TERRIFIC performance in this series, in my opinion, all you are doing is VALIDATING that Woody has not been the problem all along but the PLAYERS have been the problem. If what you say is true:

1) What made the players decide to raise their intensity level? Shouldn't they have made this decision a long time ago? Did they think they would be successful if they DIDN'T play with intensity and focus?

2) If Woody is the coach and they can play the way they did in games 3 and 4 simply because THEY decided to raise their focus and intensity level, what is the problem?

Bottom line, according to your logic, if the players play with focus and intensity, apparently Woody's coaching is just fine! Well at least it is good enough to beat the league's best team in back to back games in the playoffs.

I disagree with your sentiments. Woodson's job is to maximize the play of the players. At the NBA level the HC is still responsible for getting the most out of what he has. The great HC are all considered terrific motivators. The NBA season is too long for players not to tune in and out mentally at times. Great HCs help players keep their focus. Moving outside of basketball and to baseball, you can see that guys like Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, and Francona are all credited with managing the psychology of the season. They help manage the players intensity and keep them going through the hard times. The other thing those managers do is they play their benches.

You can not defend Woodson's complete disdain for playing the bench. It is very easy to see that Woodson has no tactical thinking ability and he only thinks in the immediate. Examples of this thinking come from his over playing the starters and not developing more role players. Him forgetting to put players back into games, his quick trigger with Acie, Salim, Solo, and other, young developing players not named Josh or Marvin, are all examples of his thinking in the immediate and not long-term.

You credit Woodson with a TERRIFIC performance. I cannot agree with that statement at all. How can you defend the terrible showing in Boston for the first two games? The team looked shellshocked in those games. Woodson is responsible for PREPAIRING his team to play, they were not prepaired to play in those games. Woodson himself seemed over matched at times- just listen to the comments he made in those games, esp. regarding Acie on Sam Cassel.

The home crowd helped the Hawks get over the Boston blow-outs, but I can't see what Woodson has done that is so "terrific" in this series. He still tries to slow the offense down. He still calls time outs when the team is about to go on a break. That the Celtics lost two games in Atlanta is a tribute to the Hawks as a team, but I can't see where Woodson has done a terrific job. He certainly has gotten slightly better as the series goes on, but he is still making glaring mistakes that the team is covering up with their own inspired play.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And here's one more thing. When Woody really shortned this rotation in March, it not only enabled us to make the playoffs, it was PREPARING this team FOR the playoffs, a time when teams usually shorten their rotation.

For all of the complaining about not playing the bench guys 8 - 12 little or no minutes, Woody knew fully well that he hd to rely on his core 7 guys to possibly have a shot in the postseason.

And he was dead on.

[lawman]

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Well you have to give the guy SOME credit. He has outcoached Doc in the past two games.

The question is how hard is it to out coach DOC Rivers? What has Doc done from a coaching stand point in his career!!!!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The question is how hard is it to out coach DOC Rivers? What has Doc done from a coaching stand point in his career!!!!!

You can't have it both ways though. The Celtics won 66 games with Doc at the helm. Victory-wise, that's in the top 10 of ALL TIME in the NBA. Off the top of my head, I can only think of 2 other NBA teams all time that posted more wins . . . the Jerry West Laker team that went 69 - 13 and Bulls team that won 72 games. So this Boston team may even be TOP 5 of ALL TIME!!!

So did they win those 66 games on the strength of Doc's coaching and game management, or did they win it because they added 2 Hall of Fame players to the roster, plus a plethora of vet role players? If the answer is the players, then they're now struggling because of those same players.

The same goes for Woody. To give almost al of the credit to the players for winning games, but placing all of the blame on Woody when we lose, isn't being objective at all.

It's funny though. If you go to any online boards about the Celtics today, you'll see some of the same complaints about Doc, than may people have constantly said about Woody:

- he plays the starters too much

- he doesn't develop his bench

- he has bad substitution patterns

- he doesn't make in-game adjustments

LMAO . . this is a coach that won 66 games this season that they're talking about. Yet, many people have reduced him to Woody's status, because the C's didn't sweep us.

I read some of Boston's RealGM comments. People were complaining about Doc not playing Eddie House to spread the floor. Then when House comes in and does nothing, they complain about him being in the game in the first place. ( sounds like the Salim Stoudamie as a sparkplug for the offense argument, huh ).

And that leads to them questioning why Rondo wasn't in the game more in the 2nd half, even though Rondo looked gun shy ( the Acie Law should play more argument )

The best one was why Tony Allen isn't getting any PT, especially to guard JJ in the 4th. ( the Mario West is our best perimeter defender, so he should play more argument ) I guess they wanted Sam Cassell out of the game, so that Pierce can run the point.

Funny what losing will do for a person's perception about you.

[coachx]

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Funny what losing will do for a person's perception about you.

You hit the nail on the head. It is really just this simple.

Thats the bottom line. You can write a book on a coaches game decisions but in the end you have to win in order for the decision to be viewed as the correct one......and even then, some still complain.

[Atlantaholic]

The way I see it: if Woodson is as bad as we all think he is, than sooner or later the ASG will HAVE to fire him.

We have shown we have enough talent on this roster to compete with ANYONE... There is NO REASON that we shouldn't be an above 500 team by the all star break next year. If the team starts to underachieve, our new bandwagon fans will be DEMANDING for Woodson to go. Now that there are actually more than just the 100 members of this site paying attention to the team, the ASG will have to deal with the pressure of fan expectation...

My prediction is that Woody goes midway through next year.

[Hatertots]

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You can't have it both ways though. The Celtics won 66 games with Doc at the helm. Victory-wise, that's in the top 10 of ALL TIME in the NBA. Off the top of my head, I can only think of 2 other NBA teams all time that posted more wins . . . the Jerry West Laker team that went 69 - 13 and Bulls team that won 72 games. So this Boston team may even be TOP 5 of ALL TIME!!!

Another all time great team was the 2006-07 Dallas Mavericks with 67 wins...

Don't be satisfied!

[Atlantaholic]

Everyone who has watched the Celtics the past three seasons knows Doc Rivers is a terrible coach... Amongst Boston fans he was viewed exactly the same way Woody was, as a joke.

He has coached absolutely terribly during the playoffs, abandoning his rotation, electing to stick with terrible defensive match-ups, not adjusting etc... Despite having, hands-down, a championship team Boston will probably not even MAKE the finals... (If we don't get them, Detroit, if motivated, would kill this team)... And Doc Rivers is the main reason why.

The regular season means nothing... 66 wins, big deal.... You have KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen squaring off against the likes of Miami, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Indiana, (Regular season version) Atlanta, Chicago, New York for about half of your games.... That's like 40 games where Doc sat back and played his bench for half the game, and still won by 20 points... How much great coaching do you need when your team is good enough to blow everyone out in virtually every game? (average margin of victory - 10 POINTS!!)

There's a reason that Doc didn't get coach of the year despite the fact that Boston had the biggest turnaround in history... It's because he just isn't a very good coach.