I am confused!!

[AHF]

Quote:

---

You may not be the only one but you are in the overwhelming minority of people who believe that Marvin doesn't play with passion.

Diesel takes this farther than I can agree with because I don't think Marvin dogs it at all. However, I will say that Josh Smith plays with considerably more passion than Marvin and imposes himself on the game in a way (sometimes bad, more often good) that stars do and Marvin Williams does not impose himself on a game. When Marvin comes out noticeably aggressive it is a rare and wonderful thing. I hope we see more of that and less of the games where he is content to wait for open jumpers off other people's offense. I do understand your point Dolfan about the offensive system perhaps putting Marvin in that kind of passive role but you know what I think about our offensive "system."

[Admin]

It's really like deciding whether to date a bi-polar person or a "normal" person when dealing with Marvin or Smoove. The highs are probably better with the bi-polar person but the lows are probably a lot worse as well. Marvin doesn't appear to play with passion because for the most part he always plays the same way. Mentally he is under control and doesn't get all hyped up like Smoove does but he also doesn't get down like Smoove does. I would like to see more from Marvin because like you said when he comes out and really plays with a lot of passion he is definitely better but at the same time I don't want that to cause him to get down on himself like Smoove does when things aren't going well.

[TheDude]

i think for me it's the lack of "glimpses of the future." In Josh Smith we would at least see a glimpse of future stardom and it's just been a matter of getting consistency as he progresses..

with marvin, i haven't seen that...sure he's had like one game where he scored 30 (against his hometown crowd) but other than that, he has been very ho hum..

plus i see more fire in josh to learn to get better than marvin...

i havent given up totally on marvin, but he seemed to stop progressing midseason..he needs to step up.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

i think for me it's the lack of "glimpses of the future." In Josh Smith we would at least see a glimpse of future stardom and it's just been a matter of getting consistency as he progresses..

with marvin, i haven't seen that...sure he's had like one game where he scored 30 (against his hometown crowd) but other than that, he has been very ho hum..

plus i see more fire in josh to learn to get better than marvin...

i havent given up totally on marvin, but he seemed to stop progressing midseason..he needs to step up.

Marvin has actually regressed since Midseason. Which for the most part means that overall, he has not improved since coming out of college. He has become more comfortable in the pro game but improved? NO. I can't point to one thing that Marvin has become better at since his college days... CAN anyone??

[frosgrim]

Marvin gives better interviews now than when he came out, he's much more articulate.

In all seriousness, I think his on-ball defense has really improved, especially this year. He also started boxing out better as the season progressed.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Marvin gives better interviews now than when he came out, he's much more articulate.

In all seriousness, I think his on-ball defense has really improved, especially this year. He also started boxing out better as the season progressed.

Boxing Out? Boxing Out?? I can find you 20 guys at the Y that has mastered Boxing out. In essence, you're saying that Marvin has gotten better at some "effort" things but overall his improvement in other aspects of the game has not changed?

[D.R.P.]

Actually Marvin has improved in some areas. In fact Marvin was the most consistent player on the team the first half of the season.

His shot has improved. He's added the floater in the lane. He draws more fouls.

His defense has improved by leaps and bounds since he came into the league. Marvin's on the ball and post defense was terrible when he came into the league now they are so much better in fact his defense is more consistent than Josh Smith's. Yeah with Smooth you get the block shots but to many times he plays olay defense (he gives up to many easy baskets when he's posted up).

The problems with Marvin are correctable considering he's ONLY 21 YEARS OLD.

If you want to talk about a player who hasn't added anything to his game; lets talk about Josh Childress. Diesel name something Chills has added to his game since he came into the league.

[SuperSavvyNation]

I'm sorry, but most of this is hogwash and wishful thinking. I don't care how young Marvin is. I've seen players who can get it done and Marvin is not one of them. His clumsiness, inability to finish or even take a hit, poor hands, and docile nature are what doom him.

You can forget him ever being a star. My eyesight and years of watching the game says so. Can he be an adequate contributor? Perhaps. But for the Hawks....at the SF position....he is not what we need. If we can't find someone at that position (or move JJ there and find a SG) who can stretch the floor, then our offense will continue to lack consistency and balance.

Zbo

[Wurider05]

You guys kill me with we need Corey Maggette crap. Please compare the stats between he and Marvin and I bet that they are similiar. Corey is the 1st option on the clipper team and there fore he take more shots than Marvin. he plays no defense.

[D.R.P.]

Quote:

---

I'm sorry, but most of this is hogwash and wishful thinking. I don't care how young Marvin is. I've seen players who can get it done and Marvin is not one of them. His clumsiness, inability to finish or even take a hit, poor hands, and docile nature are what doom him.

You can forget him ever being a star. My eyesight and years of watching the game says so. Can he be an adequate contributor? Perhaps. But for the Hawks....at the SF position....he is not what we need. If we can't find someone at that position (or move JJ there and find a SG) who can stretch the floor, then our offense will continue to lack consistency and balance.

Zbo

I didn't say that Marvin was going to become some big time star. My point is that it makes no sense to believe that Marvin has gotten as good as he can get. To say Marvin can't improve his balance also makes no sense; that’s like saying someone he can't get stronger at his age. This team doesn't space the floor because of the lack of a low post scoring treat and the lack of an offensive system. If anything Marvin helps space the floor because he's one of the few guys on the team that can consistently hit a jumpshot. It doesn’t take eyesight to know that at age 21 someone has not reached their peek.

The bottom line is that IMO neither Marvin nor Josh Smith will reach their potential with Mike Woodsen as head coach.

[thesheedera]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

i think for me it's the lack of "glimpses of the future." In Josh Smith we would at least see a glimpse of future stardom and it's just been a matter of getting consistency as he progresses..

with marvin, i haven't seen that...sure he's had like one game where he scored 30 (against his hometown crowd) but other than that, he has been very ho hum..

plus i see more fire in josh to learn to get better than marvin...

i havent given up totally on marvin, but he seemed to stop progressing midseason..he needs to step up.

Marvin has actually regressed since Midseason. Which for the most part means that overall, he has not improved since coming out of college. He has become more comfortable in the pro game but improved? NO. I can't point to one thing that Marvin has become better at since his college days... CAN anyone??

It's difficult to compare him now to his college days because he was used exclusively as a post player in college and he's used almost exclusively as a perimeter player in the NBA.

He was one of 3 post players on the team and the only time any of them took long jumpshots or drove with the ball was when they trailed on the secondary break and got the ball at the top of the key. And when they got the ball there, my memory is that they'd pass immediately at least 80% of the time. Jawad took a decent number of jumpers at that point in the offense, Marvin less than Jawad but he took some, May took very few. None of them really drove the ball from that spot at all, they'd eitehr shoot, or pass it and go inside to set screen after screen with the other post player and the wings cutting on the baseline.

Marvin's certainly better off the dribble now than then. He never drove from the perimeter to the lane as a college player, that just wasn't a part of his game. You could see that he had potential as a ball handler because he would handle the ball in traffic in transition. Other than that, he rarely handled the ball.

He's better shooting jumpshots as he rarely did that in college, mentioned above. A couple times a game he might take a long jumper, but it wasn't close to being his primary role, as it now so clearly is. Taking an opporunistic jumper from time to time is one thing. No one defended him on the perimeter so he was always wide open. Now he's known as a mid-long range jumpshooter and that's where he plays a huge majority of the game (whether that's a Woody decision or a Marvin decision is unknown). He still needs to stop drifting on the shot, needs to jump less on mid range shots, and needs to extend his range, but he's come a good way so far in developing this part of his game from scratch.

And while he isn't in the post very often anymore, he now has a couple of post, and mid range back to the basket moves. He just doesn't use them enough, and frankly doesn't get the ball enough in position to use them. Again - maybe Woody's call, maybe Marvin being "soft". We don't know.

He has a baby hook that he finishes regularly.

He dropped a spin move fade away on Pierce the other night that he's used less frequently (and has had less frequent success than the baby hook) than the baby hook. But when he executes it properly its beautiful.

He has a jab step jumper that he's had some success with, but needs to continue to improve.

What he's really bad at is going from close in to the rim. He needs space to get enough lift to finish at the rim. He can drive from outside and dunk on someone, but when he only has a step or two he gets his [censored] thrown back in his face. If he improved this part the other options would improve as a result.

He really couldn't be much different of a player than he was then. In some ways good, in some ways bad.

He needs to continue to add to his game but get back to the tenacity that he played with in college. That tenacity added greatly to his hype as a potentially great player.

[SuperSavvyNation]

If marvin was 7 yrs old, then I would say his balance could improve.....he's 21. Jumpshots improve, dribbling improves, free throws can improve.....if you are 21 and still clumsy with poor hands in the NBA, I don't see that changing. See things for what they are without the blinders.

[Joker]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Why does the

"he's only 22"

argument seems to work for Smoove but alot of fols are ready to write Marvin off and he is only 21. I guess Smoove is the only one that has the capacity to get better. I really feel that a player should be evaluated at the end of their rookie contract. Only a fool would max a player on potential after they have been in the league for four years. With that being said I don't think that anyone on this team (other than Joe) deserves a max. Smoove shows up half the time so he should get half the max. I think that next season is make or break for Marvin but you would be a fool to ever think that Smoove will ever stop playing the way he is. The sad thing is that he really tries but it is like he can't help himself when he gets the ball in his hand.

I think that we have a good enough team to be very competitive but you guys need to get off of that Smoove is untouchable but Marvin is thing.

SMoove's stats are getting better but he isn't becoming a better player-think about that.

Smith has a much greater impact (both good and bad) on games then Marvin does. They are the same age (same high school class and six months age difference doesn't matter), which is why they are generally considered peers. Since Marvin has accomplished less, he gets more criticism - that and the fact that he was the second pick in the draft.

I feel otherwise, but it could be becuase he (Smith) was a steal in the draft and Marvin when in front of two possible HOF's. That might be the reason.

[Joker]

Quote:

---

If marvin was 7 yrs old, then I would say his balance could improve.....he's 21. Jumpshots improve, dribbling improves, free throws can improve.....if you are 21 and still clumsy with poor hands in the NBA, I don't see that changing. See things for what they are without the blinders.

Balance can improve. He just has to work it hard on it, I know that for a fact. I had bad balance and I had to work all summer with my trainer at that time and the results were amazing. His biggest problem is when he gets knock off balance, not balance his self. That's where he needs to improve in. He also needs to do the full court dummy drill, where a coach with a dummy bag keeps hitting him down the court and he has to keep his balance. Also American Gladitors fighting will help him out a lot. That's his problem.

[Joker]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

i think for me it's the lack of "glimpses of the future." In Josh Smith we would at least see a glimpse of future stardom and it's just been a matter of getting consistency as he progresses..

with marvin, i haven't seen that...sure he's had like one game where he scored 30 (against his hometown crowd) but other than that, he has been very ho hum..

plus i see more fire in josh to learn to get better than marvin...

i havent given up totally on marvin, but he seemed to stop progressing midseason..he needs to step up.

Marvin has actually regressed since Midseason. Which for the most part means that overall, he has not improved since coming out of college. He has become more comfortable in the pro game but improved? NO. I can't point to one thing that Marvin has become better at since his college days... CAN anyone??

His biggest problem after midseason, was the addition of Bibby which then made him the four and sometimes the fifth option since Horford moved to the fouth. That's what you don't get, Marvin lost some of his confidence becuase his offensive role became a lot less. You telling me that doesn't bother a 30 year old, it would most definely bother a 22 year old. Sometimes you watch Marvin he's being too aggressive, sometimes not at all, and that has to change. He can be a marginal All Star but need confidence to do so. I feel if he was with a team like the Bucks he would be better then he is right now.

[Joker]

Quote:

---

It's really like deciding whether to date a bi-polar person or a "normal" person when dealing with Marvin or Smoove. The highs are probably better with the bi-polar person but the lows are probably a lot worse as well. Marvin doesn't appear to play with passion because for the most part he always plays the same way. Mentally he is under control and doesn't get all hyped up like Smoove does but he also doesn't get down like Smoove does. I would like to see more from Marvin because like you said when he comes out and really plays with a lot of passion he is definitely better but at the same time I don't want that to cause him to get down on himself like Smoove does when things aren't going well.

I 100% agree. Marvin is always laid-back, nothing worst with it, but more hustle is needed from him in my opinion.

[Johnnybravo4]

All I know is that it will be easier to teach Smoove how to dribble and shoot than it will be to get Marvin to have a vertical jump over 30'' or to play with any type of heart.

We need to dump him now while he still has a little value.

I will say it again until November. Jermaine O'neal.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Why does the

"he's only 22"

argument seems to work for Smoove but alot of fols are ready to write Marvin off and he is only 21. I guess Smoove is the only one that has the capacity to get better. I really feel that a player should be evaluated at the end of their rookie contract. Only a fool would max a player on potential after they have been in the league for four years. With that being said I don't think that anyone on this team (other than Joe) deserves a max. Smoove shows up half the time so he should get half the max. I think that next season is make or break for Marvin but you would be a fool to ever think that Smoove will ever stop playing the way he is. The sad thing is that he really tries but it is like he can't help himself when he gets the ball in his hand.

I think that we have a good enough team to be very competitive but you guys need to get off of that Smoove is untouchable but Marvin is thing.

SMoove's stats are getting better but he isn't becoming a better player-think about that.

Smith has a much greater impact (both good and bad) on games then Marvin does. They are the same age (same high school class and six months age difference doesn't matter), which is why they are generally considered peers. Since Marvin has accomplished less, he gets more criticism - that and the fact that he was the second pick in the draft.

I feel otherwise, but it could be becuase he (Smith) was a steal in the draft and Marvin when in front of two possible HOF's. That might be the reason.

So you feel Marvin has a greater impact on the outcome of Hawks' games?

[Joker]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Why does the

"he's only 22"

argument seems to work for Smoove but alot of fols are ready to write Marvin off and he is only 21. I guess Smoove is the only one that has the capacity to get better. I really feel that a player should be evaluated at the end of their rookie contract. Only a fool would max a player on potential after they have been in the league for four years. With that being said I don't think that anyone on this team (other than Joe) deserves a max. Smoove shows up half the time so he should get half the max. I think that next season is make or break for Marvin but you would be a fool to ever think that Smoove will ever stop playing the way he is. The sad thing is that he really tries but it is like he can't help himself when he gets the ball in his hand.

I think that we have a good enough team to be very competitive but you guys need to get off of that Smoove is untouchable but Marvin is thing.

SMoove's stats are getting better but he isn't becoming a better player-think about that.

Smith has a much greater impact (both good and bad) on games then Marvin does. They are the same age (same high school class and six months age difference doesn't matter), which is why they are generally considered peers. Since Marvin has accomplished less, he gets more criticism - that and the fact that he was the second pick in the draft.

I feel otherwise, but it could be becuase he (Smith) was a steal in the draft and Marvin when in front of two possible HOF's. That might be the reason.

So you feel Marvin has a greater impact on the outcome of Hawks' games?

Currently Josh Smith is a better player and his impact is bigger then Marvin. In the future I see Marvin impact being higher becuase his problems can be helped by hard work and experience while Josh has to be a man and train himself to become that player that many want him to be.

[Joker]

Quote:

---

All I know is that it will be easier to teach Smoove how to dribble and shoot than it will be to get Marvin to have a vertical jump over 30'' or to play with any type of heart.

We need to dump him now while he still has a little value.

I will say it again until November. Jermaine O'neal.

Josh Smith will never be a great dribbler becuase of his lack of coordnation like AK-47 has. In fact Smith is a black AK-47. (O.T.) J. O'Neal to me isn't that good, his lost of his athletic ability has hurt him in more ways then one (O.T.). Smith lack of that is what's preventing him from ever becoming VC and that's is why dunking on people is hard for him. Williams has no trouble dunking on someone, he just has trouble when someone bumps or pushes him which means balance is his issue. Derrick Rose is the opposite of Marvin.