Gearon Jr. ON 790...

[TheDude]

well i agree dolfan, but we can't keep pusshing that time frame out...i heard it as a 3year plan, not a 3-5 year plan...thenext thing is we'll be in year 4 1/2 saying the next year he'll put it all together...

again for me the biggest thing is not seeing those moments of greatness that all young inconsistent true talents show....

i don't know, i hope he does some hardcore training in the offseason...

one side note on the coaching...so why again would our ownership not even TALK to d'antoni or avery and automatically assume that they are not as good as woodson? is it the money? is it the player relationship? i don't know but i don't think that woodson is even in those two coaches league let alone to be chosen above them.

[KB21]

I'm not forgetting about them. They both were old when Mike took over, and that was proven because within three years, they completely rebuilt the team and Mike still won.

Daugherty played in only 50 games in the 93-94 season. Larry Nance played in 33 games that season. Mike was relying on the likes of Chris Mills that season.

In the 1997 season, Mike went 47-35 with four rookies among the top 6 on the team in minutes played: Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cedric Henderson, Brevin Knight, and Derek Anderson. Most coaches would use the fact that they had to play rookies as an excuse. Mike Fratello WON with 4 rookies playing major roles.

[KB21]

Phoenix was 25 in PPG allowed. Atlanta was 15th.

D'Antoni even has a sign in his offense that says the best defense is scoring the most points. He doesn't give defense any attention.

[Traceman]

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And just he HAS to say they will re-sign both Joshes, but let's face it, if a true contender offers Childress comparable money, he is gone. Chill seems like he would be ideal for the Spurs, they need to get younger and more athletic. And Chill is the type of "team first" player who would work very well with Duncan, Ginobli & Parker.

If the Spurs offer him a contract, since he is restricted, all we have to do is match it. I HOPE Chillz signs an offer sheet with the Spurs. Since they are over the cap, all they could offer him is a deal starting at the MCE and we would match that immediately. If Chillz wants to leave (and there is absolutely NO reason to believe that he does), he will have to take our one year tender and become an unrestricted FA next year.

I don't see either of the Joshes going anywhere. Gearon, Jr. coming out now and saying that we are going to resign them is the right thing to do for a number of reasons but the main reason is to let other teams know that we plan to match any offer they put out there. They might as well not even make an offer. That won't prevent ALL teams from making offers but it will certainly discourage some from doing so. As for Smoove, I can see a team like Philly making him a fairly significant offer but if they do, I think we'll match it. Smoove is a risk but they are not letting him get away.

[Diesel]

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Are you forgetting about Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, etc? In 1994 they had 6 guys average double figures and you are telling me that they shouldn't be expected to win a playoff game? He took Lenny Wilkins 54 win team that went to the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals the year before and won 47 games and got swept in the 1st round (although they get credit since it was against the Bulls).

He won 49 games with the Grizzlies but couldn't win a playoff game.

He had a 3-2 lead over the Celtics AT HOME with possibly the best lineup in Atlanta Hawks history and blew that series.

The fact is that he isn't a big game coach and his track record is worse than Woody's, who took a 37 win team and won 3 games against the heavily favored 66 win Celtics.

When you consider those playoff teams, you have to examine each situation.

The Celtics Man. LB, McHale, Chief... The real Big three. So what we were up on them. When we lost game 6, the series was over.

That Cleveland team was totally different. Daugherty could only give 50 gimpy games vs. a whole season the year before.

That Memphis team was a showcase of overachieving. They played the WCC Mavericks in the first round of the playoffs.

[Admin]

I've always heard that it was 3-5 years with Marvin because he was pretty raw and let's not forget that we have converted him to SF. He was a PF in college and probably should have been a PF in the pros from day 1. That would have forced him to work on his strength and post work.

I don't know, I think it's probably a lot to do with money since D'Antoni reportedly wants 18 million from the Bulls and Woody will obviously cost a lot less and our captain wants him back.

[Diesel]

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I've always heard that it was 3-5 years with Marvin because he was pretty raw and let's not forget that we have converted him to SF. He was a PF in college and probably should have been a PF in the pros from day 1. That would have forced him to work on his strength and post work.

I don't know, I think it's probably a lot to do with money since D'Antoni reportedly wants 18 million from the Bulls and Woody will obviously cost a lot less and our captain wants him back.

Before it was 3 yrs.

Now it's 3-5 years.

Keep it coming...

More excuses.

More excuses.

[bronnt]

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I think this is probably a moot point since Woody will be back but D'Antoni would definitely be my first choice since we are built to run and defend and despite KB's claims the Suns were a MUCH better defensive team than the Hawks were and of course were better offensively.

And it's really laughable that Hawks' fans could scoff at what the Suns have done. They've won 50+ games in four straight seasons. We haven't done that in 11 years and they did it four straight. And every team they've lost to in the playoffs has gone to the NBA finals. They lost the Spurs in 5 in 04-05, lost the Mavericks in 6 in 05-06, lost to the Spurs in 6 in 06-07. And but for a little bad luck against the Mavs or against the Spurs last year, they might have won an NBA championship.

And even if D'Antoni can't win an NBA championship, would anyone here complain if we won 50 games in four straight seasons? We've been bad for so long that I'll "settle" for making the conference finals every year (it even sounds funny to me).

[KB21]

Well, it is pretty obvious that most of you STILL don't believe that defense is the key to winning championships, because if you did, you would not be pushing for Mark D'Antoni to be the head coach here.

[Diesel]

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I think this is probably a moot point since Woody will be back but D'Antoni would definitely be my first choice since we are built to run and defend and despite KB's claims the Suns were a MUCH better defensive team than the Hawks were and of course were better offensively.

And it's really laughable that Hawks' fans could scoff at what the Suns have done. They've won 50+ games in four straight seasons. We haven't done that in 11 years and they did it four straight. And every team they've lost to in the playoffs has gone to the NBA finals. They lost the Spurs in 5 in 04-05, lost the Mavericks in 6 in 05-06, lost to the Spurs in 6 in 06-07. And but for a little bad luck against the Mavs or against the Spurs last year, they might have won an NBA championship.

And even if D'Antoni can't win an NBA championship, would anyone here complain if we won 50 games in four straight seasons? We've been bad for so long that I'll "settle" for making the conference finals every year (it even sounds funny to me).

I don't have any disrespect for D'Antoni. I think he has ushered in a new way to play. I think the real problems with D'Antoni is that people don't know how much to credit to Nash and how much to credit to coaching.

What most people fail to realize when examining D'Antoni is that Steve Nash is not a good defender at all and that until Shaq, Phoenix never had a real C. They were using Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw as their C and they were winning 60 plus games. They play defense, but their offense is given a lot of credit (and should be).

Would I want D'Antoni...

Not really. If we went for an uptempo coach, give me Harris.

We need a teacher. I like Harris and Fratello.

[Admin]

Again, the Suns were 8 POINTS BETTER defensively last year than the Hawks were in defensive efficiency. Nobody is saying that D'Antoni is the best defensive coach ever but your claims that hiring him would take away what we have accomplished here is completely absurd.

[KB21]

Defensive efficiency. What exactly is that?

All I know is that Phoenix gives up more points per game than the Hawks do and have routinely been among the bottom of the league in giving up points, and I know that Mike D'Antoni has never embraced playing defense as a priority.

He doesn't teach defense. Watch and see. If he is hired in Chicago, they will be in the bottom third of the league in defense for D'Antoni's time there just like Phoenix has been since he has been there.

[exodus]

I would be fine with D'Antoni but he is moving quickly and we know that the hawks aren't going to do anything quickly. Apparently BK's resignation isn't effective until July 1. There is no telling if we will have a GM by then they will probably hire a GM before a coach.

Not to mention that D'Antoni is having serious discussions with the Bulls right now and the sticking point is money. If money is a problem with the Bulls it most likely will be a problem here as well.

[exodus]

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Defensive efficiency. What exactly is that?

All I know is that Phoenix gives up more points per game than the Hawks do and have routinely been among the bottom of the league in giving up points, and I know that Mike D'Antoni has never embraced playing defense as a priority.

He doesn't teach defense. Watch and see. If he is hired in Chicago, they will be in the bottom third of the league in defense for D'Antoni's time there just like Phoenix has been since he has been there.

Defensive and offensive efficiency is points per 100 possessions. It is a way to accurately compare teams that play at different paces.

A team that plays at a fast pace has more possessions and therefore will allow the other team to have more shot opportunities.

[Admin]

Offensive and defensive efficiency are the truest stats for measuring how good a team is on each end of the floor as it's based on points per 100 possessions offensively as well as defensively.

Phoenix gave up 103.6 points per 100 defensive possessions.

Phoenix scored 101.6 points per 100 offensive possessions.

So they were -2 in efficiency (although I believe they were well on the plus side prior to the Shaq trade).

Atlanta gave up 111.6 points per 100 defensive possessions.

Atlanta scored 97.5 points per 100 offensive possessions.

So Atlanta was -14.1 in efficiency.

To give you a frame of reference New Orleans and Boston were best in the league at +12.9 in efficiency difference.

[exodus]

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Again, the Suns were 8 POINTS BETTER defensively last year

than the Hawks were in defensive efficiency. Nobody is saying that D'Antoni is the best defensive coach ever but your claims that hiring him would take away what we have accomplished here is completely absurd.

This past season the Hawks and Suns were basically tied in defensive efficiency. You must be looking at the playoff numbers.

[KB21]

I think it is just another stathead creation that has no basis in reality.

The fact is, the divide between Steve Kerr and Mike D'Antoni right now is their philosophical difference, where Steve Kerr wants a commitment to defense, and Mike D'Antoni doesn't care for defense at all.

[exodus]

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I

think it is just another stathead creation that has no basis in reality.

The fact is, the divide between Steve Kerr and Mike D'Antoni right now is their philosophical difference, where Steve Kerr wants a commitment to defense, and Mike D'Antoni doesn't care for defense at all.

That is ridiculous.

Teams that play a faster pace have more possessions. Teams that play at a slower pace have fewer possessions. It isn't even debatable.

Dolphan was quoting the wrong numbers anyway.

[Admin]

We would have to make the move today or tomorrow to get D'Antoni. The big sticking point with Chicago is that they are still paying Skiles for 2 more years and don't want to pay D'Antoni so much on top of Skiles so we would have an advantage in that we don't owe Woody anything at this point.

I highly doubt anyone but Woody will be our coach next year though.

[AHF]

I understand and agree with your concern about Fratello's playoff record. However, slamming him for bottomline excellent results in the regular season and terrible results in the post-season seems hard for me to square with your total acceptance of Woody's routine underacheiving in the regular season. We are very fortunate there weren't 8 teams that won 39 games in the East this season.