Feels Like a Lateral Move

[exodus]

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I believe that top 10 protected first rounded was the reason we got Al Horford.

No it isn't. If the pick landed in the top 10 it would have gone to Indy. It ended up at 11 so we picked Acie.

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It's not too late for Childress and Marvin to have really good careers.

Childress has hardly improved in 4 years. marvin is still a below average starting 3 after 3 seasons.

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Billy Knight has not had enough failures to be considered a below average GM.

BK is a national laughingstock whose best ever record is 37 wins.

[Joker]

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It's not too late for Childress and Marvin to have really good careers. Shelden was a god awful pick, but hey...what GM is flawless ?

Even though we are undersized, our front line is better than a lot of front lines in the league. Also, there were quite a few teams that finished worse than us in 3pt%.

I believe that top 10 protected first rounded was the reason we got Al Horford. Craig could potentially come back next year, and that would give us a pretty solid rotation at PG. Billy Knight has not had enough failures to be considered a below average GM. If he did, he wouldn't have even been considered for the NY job. I'm not saying he is a top GM, but you are delusional if you really think Billy Knight is a flat out BAD GM.

As a matter of fact, barring RC Buford, Dumars, and Pritchard, you can name any GM in the league and I can easily point out that he's made mistakes just like BK did. Hindsight is a

motherlover

man..

please watch the language...

[Packfill]

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Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me.

People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average.

When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy).

Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average.

Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ?

I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach.

It is a lot easier to dismiss a GMs draft failures when they win a championship, such as with Dumars. BK, in comparison, has never put a winning team on the floor. Plus, BK hired Woody in the first place so the bad coaching is on him.

[EazyRoc]

National laughingstock..says you ?

Acie Law is going to be a good PG, too.

Marvin is not below average, my god. Marvin was a VERY raw player (almost as raw as Josh Smith) coming into the NBA. He probably scored the most points as a 3rd/4th option out of any player in the league. He pulls down a fairly average amount of rebounds at the SF.

I know you want to hate Billy Knight, but you really have to look at things objectively. This team, as it is built, will only get better. We are really a veteran wing, a defensive big, and a better coach away from being a very good team.

Also, scroll up to my previous post. I edited it after you replied, but I've got a challenge for you in there.

[EazyRoc]

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Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me.

People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average.

When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy).

Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average.

Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ?

I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach.

It is a lot easier to dismiss a GMs draft failures when they win a championship, such as with Dumars. BK, in comparison, has never put a winning team on the floor. Plus, BK hired Woody in the first place so the bad coaching is on him.

Because no real coach wanted to commit career suicide by coaching a (at the time) non-existant team ?

It's also no secret that he tried to fire Woodson multiple times.

and to nbasuperstar..I apologize.

[exodus]

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National laughingstock..says you ?

Uhhh... the national media. Have you been living in a cave the last few years?

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Marvin is not below average, my god.

Lebron

Butler

Pierce

Turgolu

G Wallace

Prince

Melo

Howard

Jefferson

Artest

Deng

Granger

Battier

Gay

Peja

Please tell me which of these players Marvin is better than.

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This team, as it is built, will only get better.

It would be hard to get worse than they have been in recent years.

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Also, scroll up to my previous post. I edited it after you replied, but I've got a challenge for you in there.

Name one GM who has a worse record than BK.

[Packfill]

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Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me.

People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average.

When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy).

Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average.

Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ?

I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach.

It is a lot easier to dismiss a GMs draft failures when they win a championship, such as with Dumars. BK, in comparison, has never put a winning team on the floor. Plus, BK hired Woody in the first place so the bad coaching is on him.

Because no real coach wanted to commit career suicide by coaching a (at the time) non-existant team ?

It's also no secret that he tried to fire Woodson multiple times.

and to nbasuperstar..I apologize.

Well, Woody was hired by BK prior to the ASG/Belkin implosion, so presumably the dysfunction that now pervades the organization was not a deterrent to coaching candidates when the Woody decision was made. BK also hired a disaster of a coach during his tenure in Memphis, so his ability to identify top coaching talent his highly suspect.

[DrReality]

From a Seattle fan:

My heart goes out to Atlanta fans. Their disfunctional ownership group just hired the most bland GM in all of sports.

Bland is better than BK.

[EazyRoc]

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National laughingstock..says you ?

Uhhh... the national media. Have you been living in a cave the last few years?

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Marvin is not below average, my god.

Lebron

Butler

Pierce

Turgolu

G Wallace

Prince

Melo

Howard

Jefferson

Artest

Deng

Granger

Battier

Gay

Peja

Please tell me which of these players Marvin is better than.

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This team, as it is built, will only get better.

It would be hard to get worse than they have been in recent years.

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Also, scroll up to my previous post. I edited it after you replied, but I've got a challenge for you in there.

Name one GM who has a worse record than BK.

No, I haven't been living in the cave. I just don't remember anybody in national media specifically going after Billy Knight as the laughingstock of the NBA. I do know the Hawks have been considered the laughingstock of the NBA, but I believe you're singling out BK in this situation to attempt to prove a point.

All the forwards on that list are exceptional players. Everyone on that list is either an allstar, future allstar, borderline allstar, or olympic-quality player. Also, I think everyone on that list is definately older than Marvin and has more experience than Marvin. Not a fair comparison, at all.

No, it wouldn't be hard to get worse. It's not easy building a team from scratch.

Again..a GM doesn't coach the team. You don't judge GMs by their teams' records as much as you judge them by the talent they have put together. All I kept hearing during the playoffs was that we've got a solid young core and that we're going to be good for years to come. So who's right ? You or them ?

Also, Billy Knight is (or was) the frontrunner for the GM job in New York. The Knicks are one of the highest revenue generating teams in the league, and have some solid pieces there. Do you really think Donnie Walsh would be going after Billy Knight if he was a below average GM ?

[EazyRoc]

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Although his draft history is pretty bad, Sund has made some pretty good trades in Seattle. I believe this is a later move, but then again Billy Knight wasn't all that bad of a GM. We are not a team looking to rebuild, therefore his draft history really isn't as important to me.

People were just too enamored with Chris Paul to see Knight's career in Atlanta for what it was...average.

When your best year is 37 wins that isnt average, especially considering all the guys he passed on in the draft (Deng, Iggy, Paul, Deron, Roy).

Our disappointing win total had much more to do with coaching than our actual players, and I'm sure a lot of 'squawkers would agree with that. It's a shame that people look at who he PASSED on rather than who he actually drafted. If you do assess all the GMs around the league in the same manner, then mostly all of them are below average.

Just a brief example, the GM in Detroit drafted Darko, and passed on Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, etc. However, this is the same guy who drafted Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell. Is he below average, as well ?

I could go on and on with examples of GMs who passed on good players, but that's not how you judge a GM. You judge him by the team he's built, and I think the team he built was definately better than 37 wins. Once again, you've got to look at your coach.

It is a lot easier to dismiss a GMs draft failures when they win a championship, such as with Dumars. BK, in comparison, has never put a winning team on the floor. Plus, BK hired Woody in the first place so the bad coaching is on him.

Because no real coach wanted to commit career suicide by coaching a (at the time) non-existant team ?

It's also no secret that he tried to fire Woodson multiple times.

and to nbasuperstar..I apologize.

Well, Woody was hired by BK prior to the ASG/Belkin implosion, so presumably the dysfunction that now pervades the organization was not a deterrent to coaching candidates when the Woody decision was made. BK also hired a disaster of a coach during his tenure in Memphis, so his ability to identify top coaching talent his highly suspect.

I can agree BK made a mistake in Memphis. However, even prior to the whole ownership implosion, our best player was (If I recall correctly) Al Harrington! Back then, Al Harrington was not the player he is in Golden State either. We did not have a team down here then. That is why we traded for Joe, and why the ownership imploded. So, yeah, it was still career suicide to come to Atlanta and coach.

[exodus]

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Everyone on that list is either an allstar, future allstar, borderline allstar, or olympic-quality player. Also, I think everyone on that list is definately older than Marvin and has more experience than Marvin. Not a fair comparison, at all.

You disagreed when i said Marvin was a below average starting 3. I listed 15 starting 3s and you didn't name one guy Marvin was better than.

That must mean you changed your mind and now agree with me that Marvin is a below average starting 3.

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No, I haven't been living in the cave. I just don't remember anybody in national media specifically going after Billy Knight as the laughingstock of the NBA.

Then you aren't paying attention. National writers are constantly taking shots at BK over the '05/'06 drafts. Watching League Pass the opposing teams announcers are constantly taking shots at BK over his draft picks.

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Again..a GM doesn't coach the team.

But they do hire the coach.

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Do you really think Donnie Walsh would be going after Billy Knight if he was a below average GM ?

They need a demolition expert. BK can certainly do that. But if hired BK will have about as much say on draft picks as you do.

[sturt]

Eazy, if I may be so bold as to offer some unsolicited advice regarding debates with certain posters here.......

First, don't miss the point that ex has agreed with you that the team is going to get better, regardless of his Eeyore explanation for it.

Second, don't miss the point that the vast majority of posters on this board are common, ordinary fans, not unlike posters on any other board. That's not a compliment, nor a criticism necessarily. It is what it is, and pretty much anywhere you go. But recognize that anytime you provide some rational explanation such as... "Well, if you're going to tear down a team's roster and re-build it from scratch, it's no surprise that the W/L % going into the book isn't going to be very complimentary".... that it's going to be received as-if you are on the company payroll and bending over backwards to support "The Man."

Common fans are not inclined to support The Man, because they lust for the power that The Man holds and are confident that any imbecile anywhere could do it better... that is, until you actually have a GM search (or for that matter, a coaching search), in which case, it seems that the only people who ought to have been hired is confined to a list of one or two or three in the entire universe... odd how that happens, isn't it?

So, just be wary... often when you find someone with a post count numbering into the thousands, if you do the math and figure out just how many posts they've had to do per-day in order to get to that mark, you can be pretty sure you're dealing with someone with an inflated opinion of their inflated opinion.

Nothing wrong with that, either... if not for them, these forums would be very boring places to frequent. That is, nothing wrong with that, as long as there's some understanding that some posters have to be just grinned-and-beared...

Cliff's Notes: Unless you're a welfare bum with nothing better to do with your time than spend it on the internet arguing back-and-forth about things that truly have no impact on real people's lives, don't let yourself get drawn too deeply into the icy crevasse... there comes a point where you go from exploring a point to sliding down inside a debate of very limited consequence. It's just not worth the time. No one is being persuaded to think any differently than they had before. Instead, just make your point, and let it stand on its own merits. If someone raises a legitimate question, one that isn't saturated with presumption, then maybe make one response. But then, move on.

[mrhonline]

I had this discussion on RealGM a few months back. I think it's important to distinguish between a "below average SF," which Marvin certainly is not, and a "below average starting SF," which Marvin certainly is.

[exodus]

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I had this discussion on RealGM a few months back. I think it's important to distinguish between a "below average SF," which Marvin certainly is not, and a "below average

starting

SF," which Marvin certainly is.

Here is my quote.

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marvin is still a below average starting 3 after 3 seasons.

There is nothing ambiguous about that.

[exodus]

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because they lust for the power that The Man holds and are confident that any imbecile anywhere could do it better...

Yeah some imbeciles make up pet names like "The Tyrant" to deride the authority figures they despise.

[mrhonline]

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There is nothing ambiguous about that.

That doesn't mean people will read it any less lazily.

[EazyRoc]

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Everyone on that list is either an allstar, future allstar, borderline allstar, or olympic-quality player. Also, I think everyone on that list is definately older than Marvin and has more experience than Marvin. Not a fair comparison, at all.

You disagreed when i said Marvin was a below average starting 3. I listed 15 starting 3s and you didn't name one guy Marvin was better than.

That must mean you changed your mind and now agree with me that Marvin is a below average starting 3.

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No, I haven't been living in the cave. I just don't remember anybody in national media specifically going after Billy Knight as the laughingstock of the NBA.

Then you aren't paying attention. National writers are constantly taking shots at BK over the '05/'06 drafts. Watching League Pass the opposing teams announcers are constantly taking shots at BK over his draft picks.

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Again..a GM doesn't coach the team.

But they do hire the coach.

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Do you really think Donnie Walsh would be going after Billy Knight if he was a below average GM ?

They need a demolition expert. BK can certainly do that. But if hired BK will have about as much say on draft picks as you do.

No, Marvin Williams is not a top 15 SF in this league, but that does not make him below average. Although you specified starting SF, I didn't. Out of the many SFs in this league, Marvin Williams is definitely not below average.

The media also had good things to say about our young core in the playoffs, too. So, although they clown him for 2 bad drafts, what about the other 3 (or 4) ?

About the coach issue: See my previous post.

And just how do you know what Billy Knight's role in New York will be ? What are you basing your assumption from ? and even then...if they are going to blow the team up..why would they hire Billy Knight as a GM ? Heaven forbid they hired him to rebuild the team ?

[exodus]

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No, Marvin Williams is not a top 15 SF in this league, but that does not make him below average. Although you specified starting SF, I didn't.

So you were responding to me but responding to something i didn't say? uhh...ok.

It is pretty rare that someone has agreed and disagreed with me on the same point on the same post. Congrats.

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And just how do you know what Billy Knight's role in New York will be ?

So he has already been hired? I must have missed the press release.

[EazyRoc]

Ha. Whatever, man.

I wasn't responding to you, I made a statement that marvin was not a top 15 SF in the league and he isn't below average. It's pointless to try to compare Marvin to other players especially when everyone on that list is older and has more basketball experience than him. I thought I made that clear, but maybe I didn't. Either way, arguing that is far from the point I'm trying to make.

Once again, you dodge my question.

If Billy Knight is considered a below average GM by yourself, why does Donnie Walsh think he's a suitable candidate for the GM job in New York ?

[exodus]

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Ha. Whatever, man.

I wasn't responding to you, I made a statement that marvin was not a top 15 SF in the league and he isn't below average. It's pointless to try to compare Marvin to other players especially when everyone on that list is older and has more basketball experience than him. I thought I made that clear, but maybe I didn't. Either way, arguing that is far from the point I'm trying to make.

Once again, you dodge my question.

If Billy Knight is considered a below average GM by yourself, why does Donnie Walsh think he's a suitable candidate for the GM job in New York ?

when BK gets hired be sure to let me know.

They still have Isiah on the payroll even though he isn't allowed to talk to any of the players. Since he has a history of draft success i would assume that would be the area he is handling.

Walsh himself was one of the top GM's in the league for years in Indy. I would assume he will have a pretty strong voice on what is going on.

BK used to work for Walsh and BK has a history of blowing up a bloated roster so that is probably why Walsh is talking to him. But just imagine the media firestorm in NY if they actually hired BK.