Ideal, Realistic Free Agency Hopes

[Jammin29]

Max cap is $55,630,000

Currently we are under the cap by $9759782 (no resignings)

remember we can go over the max cap when resigning/signing (our players) players and have the ability to match any offer any other the team gives.

Technically we could not resign josh smith & chilldress, possibly get a all star free agent (very possibly Okafor) for 8/9 mil, then go over the cap with signing childress and smith in FA, its dangerous doing things like that but it could work. A problem with that would be we would go over the cap by about 15 mil, which is bad, so bibbys expiring would only be good for balancing out the cap next season if we dont resign him, if we do resign him we got the cap problem with increases of cap. however 15 - 20 mil isnt alot becoz most teams are over the cap by about that much but when it comes to resigning acie and horford we have a problem with cap in years to come, unless we balance out contract lengths properly. Also sign a decent Vet on the MLE (mle is 5 mil that has no effect on the future cap cos its a one year deal), and also resgin mario, richardson on the min. id like to resgin Slaim also, we could get him cheap with an increase i think... I would love to do this, other then this, i see the only way we will improve in FA is if we resign chill and smoove not in FA and get a decent player on the MLE and stay just over cap level

[TheDude]

I just don't get it, sure JJ has a big contract as does Bibby but with all these young guns, how are we so close to going over? I look at some team like the pistons or the celtics and you would think they would be waaaaaay over us in cap usage.

[exodus]

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Max cap is $55,630,000

Currently we are under the cap by $9759782 (no resignings)

Bibby $15.2 million

JJ 14.2

Speedy 6.3

Marvin 4.5

Zaza 4.0

Horford 4.0

Acie 2.0

Solo .8

That's 51 million for 8 players. Smiths and Childress' cap holds means that we actually have no cap room at all. the only thing we can spend on free agents is the MLE and LLE.

[Jammin29]

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Max cap is $55,630,000

Currently we are under the cap by $9759782 (no resignings)

Bibby $15.2 million

JJ 14.2

Speedy 6.3

Marvin 4.5

Zaza 4.0

Horford 4.0

Acie 2.0

Solo .8

That's 51 million for 8 players. Smiths and Childress' cap holds means that we actually have no cap room at all. the only thing we can spend on free agents is the MLE and LLE.

Smiths and Childress doesnt count for FA, if we dont resign them.. [censored] my bad i went onto a site that doesnt have speedys cap and added em all up. (well it does but it was differnt colored)... if speedy retires we will be able to do what i said

[coachx]

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Smiths and Childress' cap holds means that we actually have no cap room at all. the only thing we can spend on free agents is the MLE and LLE.

Exactly. Chillz cap hold is huge since he was the higher draft pick ($10.9 mill or 3x last season's salary). Smith's cap hold is relatively small ($6.7 mill) . That means Chillz needs to be the first one signed or renounced. The longer we hold out on renouncing Chillz' rights or resigning him the longer his huge cap hold will limit us with FA decisions.

B/c of that cap hold situation we should expect a decision on Chillz rather quickly compared to Smith. Either resign or renounce Chillz rights quickly. If they renounce their rights to Chillz then it frees up some money for them to target another team's free agent. Then they can go over the cap to resign Smith. Smith's cap hold is much less then he will actually resign for. So the longer he remains unsigned the longer the Hawks have some flexibility which is the opposite with Chillz' cap hold situation.

Or you can look at it this way. If we resign Smith first then we have no cap room to even look at other teams players without paying luxury tax. Smith resigns for $11 mill per and Chillz' cap hold of $10.9 mill = no more room to even negotiate with other team's players.

Good luck Rick Sund !

[exodus]

The bottom line is that have no cap room. All we have is the MLE and LLE to sign free agents unless we renounce the rights of BOTH Smith and Childress.

[Admin]

We only have no room to sign more players if the ASG decides not to spend past the luxury tax threshold. If they are willing to pay the tax then what coach said is right on. Decide on Childress immediately, wait to sign Smoove until we have signed FAs. We will be well over the cap and past the luxury tax but it can be done.

[frosgrim]

Gearon this AM on 790 made it sound like the ASG is willing to go up to the LT limit, but not beyond. I can't critisize them for that spending cap, esp with the law suit.

If I had to guess, I would say that Childress is gone in an SnT and that Smith will get a very big deal. That seems to be the logical set of moves. Of course logic is always clouded by desire.

[exodus]

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We only have no room to sign more players if the ASG decides not to spend past the luxury tax threshold. If they are willing to pay the tax then what coach said is right on. Decide on Childress immediately, wait to sign Smoove until we have signed FAs. We will be well over the cap and past the luxury tax but it can be done.

You misunderstood my post. I said we had no cap room, not that we didn't have the ability to sign free agents with the MLE and LLE.

At this point the salary cap is pretty much irrelevant.

[Admin]

I couldn't fault them one bit for spending up to the LT either, at least until we are a true playoff team with a chance of advancing to the EC finals. Hopefully this legal mess will be resolved soon and maybe they can bring in someone to replace Belkins dollars. I would hate to lose Childress but as long as we get something of value for him I can live with it.

[Guest]

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Exactly. Chillz cap hold is huge since he was the higher draft pick ($10.9 mill or 3x last season's salary). Smith's cap hold is relatively small ($6.7 mill) . That means Chillz needs to be the first one signed or renounced. The longer we hold out on renouncing Chillz' rights or resigning him the longer his huge cap hold will limit us with FA decisions.

That really doesn't matter if we go Childress or Smoove first. Even if you renounce both Smoove and Chill, we would not have cap space. The MLE, LLE, and empty roster spaces all have cap holds which put us over the cap. If we did a foolish thing and renounced the MLE, LLE, Chill, and Smoove then we would have roughly $2-3 mil in cap space.

Bottom line, there is no advantage to deciding on Chilldress first because we gain nothing by doing that. It will not give us cap space to be able to sign other free agents or anything like that.

[Jammin29]

its actually 50 mil if speedy resigns, cos of cap decreases on players for next season, so if we dont resign josh and josh in the resigning time, we can spend 5 mil on someone and go over the cap to resign both joshes joshes and have the mle and lle. the joshes dont hold any cap at all if we dont resign them. we can get a really good player for 9/8 mil if speedy retires but we dont resign both joshes, we want to sign both joshes after we sign a allstar not resign them like i keep saying lol... so bottom line its possible to get a goood player here, depends on speedy, anyway since yous dont believe me or something lol which player on the mle and lle would use like to sign ?

[AHF]

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its actually 50 mil if speedy resigns, cos of cap decreases on players for next season, so if we dont resign josh and josh in the resigning time, we can spend 5 mil on someone and go over the cap to resign both joshes joshes and have the mle and lle. the joshes dont hold any cap at all if we dont resign them. we can get a really good player for 9/8 mil if speedy retires but we dont resign both joshes, we want to sign both joshes after we sign a allstar not resign them like i keep saying lol... so bottom line its possible to get a goood player here, depends on speedy, anyway since yous dont believe me or something lol which player on the mle and lle would use like to sign ?

Are you suggesting that Speedy is going to retire and that will allow him to come off the books for the Hawks at some point this season?

[Jammin29]

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its actually 50 mil if speedy resigns, cos of cap decreases on players for next season, so if we dont resign josh and josh in the resigning time, we can spend 5 mil on someone and go over the cap to resign both joshes joshes and have the mle and lle. the joshes dont hold any cap at all if we dont resign them. we can get a really good player for 9/8 mil if speedy retires but we dont resign both joshes, we want to sign both joshes after we sign a allstar not resign them like i keep saying lol... so bottom line its possible to get a goood player here, depends on speedy, anyway since yous dont believe me or something lol which player on the mle and lle would use like to sign ?

Are you suggesting that Speedy is going to retire and that will allow him to come off the books for the Hawks at some point this season?

nah i stuffed up my first post man coz i didnt include speedys cap when i added it up by accident, now im just saying its possible to do what i said if he leaves. Speedy could leave as i read somewhere he was thinking about it. i want him to stay but i wounlt be disappointed as we could score in FA

[Diesel]

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Gearon this AM on 790 made it sound like the ASG is willing to go up to the LT limit, but not beyond. I can't critisize them for that spending cap, esp with the law suit.

If I had to guess, I would say that Childress is gone in an SnT and that Smith will get a very big deal. That seems to be the logical set of moves. Of course logic is always clouded by desire.

Gearon talks too much.

Suitors for either of the joshes know that our best maneouver is to sign Josh Childress first and get his cap hold off the books and then sign some FAs and then Smoove and then maybe another FA with the MLE.

If I'm a team like LAC, Philly or Memphis, I'm making the Hawks make a move by giving Smoove a max offer first day. Hawks has to match. By what Gearon Says, there's no way that the Hawks can go after Chillz too. Not without a cap clearing trade.

[DrReality]

More than anything else I thought Gearin talked out of both sides of his mouth. Just plain didn't say anything of substance????

[Zone034life]

Sund is coming into a summer and year of difficult decisions. There are no crystal balls so he has to make judgements on players potential with this team not what they are already giving. Its chillz or marvin and keep Bibby's contract or trade it. I think the Hawks will keep Bibby at least until the deadline. I will be upset if we do and he underperformes and we get less than we could this offseason for him. If Sund can find away to get rid of ZaZa(trade) and Speedy's(trade or retire) contract then the Hawks could have a little more to work with. If Anderson does come over it makes ZaZa expendable. He isn't the rebounder and defender needed off the bench. As for Marvin or chillz, I don't give Marvin another year like some here do. I say decide between he and chillz this summer. It would be hard to lose Chillz only to find out Marvin will never be what this team needs. In turn do you keep chillz to have Marvin become a star somewhere else? Of course you know my vote is for Chillz.

[DrReality]

Can the Hawks 'force' Speedy to do something; ie retire? do we have any options or do we have to abide by his decision?

[Zone034life]

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Can the Hawks 'force' Speedy to do something; ie retire? do we have any options or do we have to abide by his decision?

Not good but great question. I was wondering myself could the Hawks use him like Terrell Brandon in a trade. All I know is if he retires insurance pays most of his salary. The NBA should start a new rule that if a player doesn't play for three consecutive years that team should get some sort of cap relief. It could be called the Speedy rule.

[dig]

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its actually 50 mil if speedy resigns, cos of cap decreases on players for next season, so if we dont resign josh and josh in the resigning time, we can spend 5 mil on someone and go over the cap to resign both joshes joshes and have the mle and lle. the joshes dont hold any cap at all if we dont resign them. we can get a really good player for 9/8 mil if speedy retires but we dont resign both joshes, we want to sign both joshes after we sign a allstar not resign them like i keep saying lol... so bottom line its possible to get a goood player here, depends on speedy, anyway since yous dont believe me or something lol which player on the mle and lle would use like to sign ?

1. As soon as you renounce a player you lose his Bird Rights... if we don't re-sign the Joshes during the matching period or renounce them they are essentially unrestricted free agents and we can't go over the cap to sign them. In other words we can't sign another FA during the summer and then still use their restricted status to go over the cap. If this were possible there would be no need for a cap hold.

2. Consider our salary right now to be about ~$70M... we also have Salim with a x2 cap hold ($1.6M) that can be renounced and Solo's small contract that can be waived. That means we are over the cap unless we let both Joshes walk, and if both are brought back we'll likely will hit the luxury tax threshold (~$70M coincidentally) without even using the MLE or LLE.

3. I think right now the MLE is earmarked for David Andersen, although it's not certain that he'll come over. I can't think of anyone else who's worth it on the market more than DA, but again the ASG has to be willing to go over the LT. FYI about 13 teams in the NBA in were over the LT last year, and the only decent ones under had stars on rookie/cheap contracts (Howard, CP3, Deron, Calderon).

I understand the ASG has been losing money on its franchises each year, so I wouldn't be surprised if we went into next season with the same roster we have now to avoid even more losses....