How can Woody fix his "offense"?

[atlien]

Now that Woody is back, this is my biggest issue. I put "offense" in quotes, b/c after 4 years on the job, I STILL have not seen a distinct, effective offensive philosophy from Woody. THAT, my friends, is troubling.

So, what do you think Woody SHOULD do? (i'm not asking what he WILL do... we have no control over that, and I have no real confidence at this point).

I personally think he (at the direction of Sund) has to bring in an assistant who specializes in running an up tempo offense. Not only that, he needs to give that assistant room to have control in installing the system (kinda like how Thibodeau had control of Boston's defensive system). We not only need plays, but we need to actually run drills in practice that make our players actually know how to effectively play in that style. (which is my big thing with Woody... while he might have preached a style of getting out and running, Im not sure he ever actually promoted that philosophy with in-practice drills).

So, what names would y'all consider? Casey? What about a former player who was effective in running that style? (I cant think of anyone specifically right now, but there has to be some pg).

[AnakinJoe]

Woody will likely want to bring back Drew as his lead assistant and "offensive coordinator". We need to hope that Larry Brown offers Drew a position in Charlotte, with Drew's son joining UNC as a freshmen PG next season. That will create the required opening for a new OC.

Alvin Gentry needs a job. And is there someone from Avery's old staff worth adding? In terms of former players, has Tim Hardaway served his time in the corner yet? Eric Snow may retire and lives in Atlanta. Kenny Anderson has expressed interest in joining a coaching staff. Mark Price has practically begged the Hawks for a role in the past. What's Derek Harper doing these days?

In other words, there are some candidates out there, we just need to pull the trigger (but hasn't that been the case about a lot of things in the past 3-5 years?).

[Johann]

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And is there someone from Avery's old staff worth adding?

Popeye Jones was his big man coach, and did a heck of a job developing Diop and turning Damp into an actual semblance of a competent center. Would love to give Popeye a try, if no one has snapped him up yet.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hawks offense after Bibby came on board:

103.5 ppg

47% FG

39% 3FG

That's pretty good if you ask me. And it's also an indication of how a player upgrade at a key position can really improve your team in a certain area.

[Plainview1981]

The Hawks can't do crap against the good teams on the offensive end.

Don't you guys ever look at things abit before you just throw out a nukber and act like it means something?

After the Bibby trade:

93 vs. LA

74 vs. SA

88 vs. Boston

75 vs. Houston

89 points vs. Boston

When the Hawks run into a good defense they play really badly on the offensive end. The only real decent team that they played well on offense against was Orlando and they suck on defense. Scoring 110 points against teams like NY, LAC, GS and other such teams shouldn't impress anybody.

The offense isn't as good as people think it is. In the playoffs the Hawks needed a FT parade to score really. 47 FT's attempts in one game. Don't let the weak second half schedule fool you.

[atlien]

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Hawks offense after Bibby came on board:

103.5 ppg

47% FG

39% 3FG

That's pretty good if you ask me. And it's also an indication of how a player upgrade at a key position can really improve your team in a certain area.

I will admit that the offense looked better after the Bibby trade. Adding another shooter or two on the bench would also help (a ball-handler too).

But, my point is, even with these additions, Woody still has not shown us that he will be able to effectively use these players, and create a cohesive, distinct offensive philosophy. This is my biggest problem with Woody, and I hope we bring in an assistant who can help create an offensive system that works for us (and one that we can do consistently EVERY night -- meaning, a true philosophy).

[KB21]

Great defense will always beat a great offense, which is why my focus would be on getting this team to play the type of defense that you need to play to win in the playoffs.

Defense wins championships, and the offense will figure itself out along the way.

The offense I prefer is a motion offense though. I want to see ball movement and a lot of on the ball and off the ball screens to get people moving and open.

[Admin]

It's nothing more than a general rule, if that. You only have to look back to the Lakers Spurs series and see how the Lakers beat the Spurs "great defense". A truly great offense will not be stopped, no matter the defense that you play against it. I believe it was Auerbach that said that but it could have been another coach.

I too would love to see a Princeton style of motion offense. Perhaps if we had a 5 that was tall and could pass well we could do that. Bibby is already familiar with that type of offense and has excelled in it.

[bronnt]

Well, I have a few thoughts on this. Generalities mostly-I'm not claiming to know anything about designing and drawing up offensive sets, and how to react to certain defensive looks, so take this for what it is.

Firstly, let's just hope some players do what they need to do during the off-season. I'd liek to see Marvin work on his ball-handling so he doesn't lose control on most of his dribble penetration moves, and I'd liek to see him extend the range on his jumpshot by one step so he can start knocking down threes. I'd like to see Josh Smith work on his ball-handling as well, and his jumpshot also, but NOT at the expense of keeping his post game solid. Acie also should work on his jumpshooting.

In the half-court offense, Woody should use a lot of sets that put Horford in the high post and Smith in the low post. Josh Smith can score on a lot of the guys who would be defending him in the low post because of his strength, quickness, and jumping ability, and he's got good touch on lay ups and on his hook shot. Al Horford goes in the high post because, on occasion, your high post man pops out to the perimeter to take a pass, and whenever Josh Smith catches passes on the outside he's looking to shoot. Keep him down low where he can make fewer decisions that are detrimental to the offense. Horford is a contrast in that he makes a lot of good decisions on offense.

He also needs to stress Atlanta's floor spacing, which is terrible at times. I'm talking about the half court offense, not the spacing in the transition game, because our players actually have the transition game down pretty well. We play fairly good transition defense-having Josh Smith able to come from behind to block layups helps a lot-and we seldom screw up 3-on-2s or 2-on-1s. But in the half court game, the spacing is fairly poor. Marvin needs to work harder to get open without the ball, he's one of the biggest culprits of standing around watching too often.

As a basic offensive set, we need use Horford to set screens for JJ. By the way, Al needs to work on setting too many moving screens-that's one of the few things he does that really hurt. But Al is big enough that most of the people guarding JJ won't be able to fight through him, and you end up with big defenders like Haywood or Curry trying to guard Joe...it ain't happening. If you've got Josh on the low post and Bibby on the left wing, Joe has three options. Either the help comes from the perimeter where he can pass out to Bibby, or it comes from underneath so he can swing it under to Smith, or it doesn't come (or comes too late) and he just goes to the hole.

This is different from our basic offensive set, which generally involves Marvin, Josh, and Horford bunching up underneath to isolate Joe in a one-on-one situation. And, in fact, this is fine, if you use it occasionally, but not ALL THE TIME. Woody needs to flip this idea over, and work on isolating Smith in the low post. David Andersen may be a great help in this endeavor, if we sign him, because he'll pull a big man out of the paint to attempt to guard him on the perimeter. But we can still set screens to create those passing lanes which allow Smith to go to work on the low block, where he's fairly effective-and getting the ball to the interior causes defenses to collapse, opening up your shooters.

[bronnt]

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It's nothing more than a general rule, if that. You only have to look back to the Lakers Spurs series and see how the Lakers beat the Spurs "great defense". A truly great offense will not be stopped, no matter the defense that you play against it. I believe it was Auerbach that said that but it could have been another coach.

I too would love to see a Princeton style of motion offense. Perhaps if we had a 5 that was tall and could pass well we could do that. Bibby is already familiar with that type of offense and has excelled in it.

Horford is a fairly smooth ball handler and passer-traits he had little enough opportunity to demonstrate last year as he was eased into the offense. We could use him to play the Princeton 5, even though he's not a precise fit for the role. He moves better and makes better passes than plenty of other guys who play the 5, at least.

[Admin]

I think he is a pretty good passer, but he's not on the level of a guy like Vlade, Brad Miller, Gasol, etc who are exceptional passers for big men. Granted I didn't watch him much in college so he may be better than he got to show this past year.

[bronnt]

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I think he is a pretty good passer, but he's not on the level of a guy like Vlade, Brad Miller, Gasol, etc who are exceptional passers for big men. Granted I didn't watch him much in college so he may be better than he got to show this past year.

I really wouldn't mind having Brad Miller on this team. But I think we can make do with Horford all the same.

[Admin]

I would take Miller at what he is probably worth monetarily right now, but I believe (haven't checked) that he is vastly overpaid. He and Al would make a hell of a 4-5 combo though.

[atlien]

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I too would love to see a Princeton style of motion offense. Perhaps if we had a 5 that was tall and could pass well we could do that. Bibby is already familiar with that type of offense and has excelled in it.

I honestly think Horford can be that guy. He is a good passer (although still has some work to do) and makes great decisions for the most part. That's one thing I would like to see more of in our offense: Running it more through Horford. We did that a few times this year, and it looked like a great strategy.

Good posts tho, Dolfan and Bronnt. I agree we need to somehow get Smoove to play closer to the basket.

[Zone034life]

How woody uses the starters next season offensively will be very important. The underrated problem may be how and will he start to utilize his bench. Chillz is good off the bench but there has to be someone else to come in and provide energy, shooting and consistency.

A guy that intrigues me is Jeremy Richardson. By no means am I saying the guy should be just given a spot in the rotation. However if Woody found a way to run him off screens,ala Rip Hamilton, he could be effective next season. Marvin should also be used this way more often. Richardson must get stronger, work on his defense and have the threat to drive the ball next season to even be considered though.

If you all are watching these playoffs like me you see a guy like James Posey. If Marvin was to be traded I would not mind if Chillz started and Posey backed him up. Tough defender who can hit that open three when needed.

ZaZa didn't impress me last season like he did his first year with the team. Did he lose his post moves or did Woody just not throw him the ball. If he didn't score in the past at least he could go to the line. Last seaon he wasn't a threat in the post and that is unacceptable.

So while I agree Woody needs to learn how to use his starters him developing, showing confidence in and actually playing his bench next season is critical for any form of improvement next season.

[Plainview1981]

The Hawks don't have a great offense. They lack a consistent post up game and the team has no real game plan on offense. The Hawks play on offense how I do on video games whenever I'm too lazy to run plays. You can get away with that junk against NY and Golden State, but you can't against SA or a good defensive team. It should also be noted that Bibby also played terrible against good defensive teams after the trade.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The Hawks can't do crap against the good teams on the offensive end.

Don't you guys ever look at things abit before you just throw out a nukber and act like it means something?

After the Bibby trade:

93 vs. LA

74 vs. SA

88 vs. Boston

75 vs. Houston

89 points vs. Boston

When the Hawks run into a good defense they play really badly on the offensive end. The only real decent team that they played well on offense against was Orlando and they suck on defense. Scoring 110 points against teams like NY, LAC, GS and other such teams shouldn't impress anybody.

The offense isn't as good as people think it is. In the playoffs the Hawks needed a FT parade to score really. 47 FT's attempts in one game. Don't let the weak second half schedule fool you.

All I did was state the facts Hot.

I think we shot 1 less FT a game after Bibby came on board as well. But we hit 3 more threes a game. Overall, i think we averaged just one more FGA per game.

Before Bibby, we won games mainly because of stellar defense.

After Bibby, we were able to win games with efficient offense.

No matter who we played, that was the difference.

[Plainview1981]

All I did was state the facts Hot.

Well, you have to dig a tad deeper to really get the facts.

After Bibby, we were able to win games with efficient offense.

Against mainly bad defensive teams. If the Hawks are going to take steps up, they have to be able to execute against quality teams and even a few quality defensive teams. It's the obvious reasons as to why the Hawks only won 12 road games all year. Even with a better bench you still have to play defense and your starters have to win most of the road games.

[TheDude]

"How can Woody fix his offense"

quit.

[pound4pound]

Woody can fix the offense by inserting David Anderson to be the primary pick and pop option for Joe. Neither Zaza or Horford are outside threats so when they are setting picks for Joe - they provide no security valve when Joe is doubled. Anderson can hit a shot so the other guy's big has to stay with him. This will at least give Joe a one on one option or a wide open shooter when he is doubled. Keep Bibby on the opposite side of Joe for the swing and you have the beginnings of a pseudo sophisticated offense.