Horford a successful Center?

[HawkNJersey]

Damn shame, Smoove can fall just short of a triple double...be asked to guard an already hot player, while playing 40+ minutes and still not satisfy some folks. Damn shame. He may not be Mike Vick...but dammit thats the same sheit we used to hear about Vick, here in Jersey.

[MoonKnight]

whether Horford can be a successful center (he can), the real question is whether he could be an elite power forward? IMO, I think he can be. We need a Tree Rollins type center to start and play 20 (maybe even 15) minutes per game, I have no problems with Smoove starting at and playing the 3 position (he will still probably alot at the 4). We need to bring in a Brian Skinner, F. Elson, Foyle type player at a reasonable contract, start him at the 5, and watch Horford abuse other 4s and become an elite player.

[ATLBob]

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I have no problems with Smoove starting at and playing the 3 position (he will still probably alot at the 4).

I have no problem with Smith getting spot minutes at the 3, but I have a major problem with the idea of starting him at the 3. Unless, that is, he suddenly develops a jumpshot.

[Zone034life]

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Thornton started at the 4.

You mean Thomas started at the 4?

Oops that's right Thomas started at the 4. Thorton went off so bad I thought he started. But Smith was the one who took most of it.

They had to go small because they didn't have Brand and Kaman.

How do you knw it was Smoove who got scored upon the most? I watched that game and from what I saw he even scored on JJ man to mans defense. I don't see how you can single out Smoove from everyone else who Thortan ripped that day.

For everyone speaking on Smooves defense against 3's its not like Marvin shuts anybody down at that position.

[MoonKnight]

I can live with Smoove's shaky jumper due to the other benefits the lineup would bring. Additionally, he would play the majority of his minutes at the 4 spot during the 2nd and 3rd periods of each game if Woody will ever learn how to use a rotation.

[Joker]

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Due to the make-up of our team with Josh flourishing at the 4 spot for us, and Horford having a amazing rookie season while playing Center when most say he is a PF. I see no reason to even look at a starting C this summer or anytime in the near future. I think Horf and Smoove complement each other perfectly together as bigs and we shouldn't look at trading Smith for a Center. Only reason to trade for a Center is for depth IMO.

These two together are cornerstone bigs and I can see them as a formidable frontcourt during a deep championship run.

Thoughts?

He can be a successful Center, he too talented. Will he be a elite Center, that's what I doubt even barring injury.

[exodus]

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Thornton started at the 4.

You mean Thomas started at the 4?

Oops that's right Thomas started at the 4. Thorton went off so bad I thought he started. But Smith was the one who took most of it.

They had to go small because they didn't have Brand and Kaman.

How do you knw it was Smoove who got scored upon the most? I watched that game and from what I saw he even scored on JJ man to mans defense. I don't see how you can single out Smoove from everyone else who Thortan ripped that day.

For everyone speaking on Smooves defense against 3's its not like Marvin shuts anybody down at that position.

Watching the game it was obvious Smith couldn't stay in front of him. He was certainly the one who got lit up the most.

Marvin might not shut guys down but he doens't let them go right past him consistently like Smith does. marvin has done a pretty good job staying in front of Lebron, although he does get overpower on put backs at times.

Smith didn't play the 3 hardly at all this season and the Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11C.HTM

During the previous season he played the 3 much more frequently (remember Marvin was hurt) and the Hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg when he was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11D.HTM

It is pretty clear he is better suited defensively at the 4.

[ATLBob]

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It is pretty clear he is better suited defensively at the 4.

It's also pretty clear that he's better offensively at the 4.

[crimedog]

This question is relevant mainly to defense, can Horford defend centers?

So far its pretty uncertain, he was a rookie last season and he wasn't really a lock-down defender when he was matched up against guys smaller than him either - but I think that is mainly because he was just getting used to the speed of the game.

I'd like to see what he can do when he comes back, he needs to spend a lot of time in the gym working out his legs and core and then watch a lot of tape from guys like Rodman, Oakley, and Kurt Thomas on how to defend guys who are bigger than you (Horford is a lot closer to C size than those guys though, especially w/ regards to weight and frame).

[Diesel]

This is bad even for a stathead like yourself...

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Smith didn't play the 3 hardly at all this season

and the Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11C.HTM

During the previous season he played the 3 much more frequently and the Hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg when he was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11D.HTM

It is pretty clear he is better suited defensively at the 4.

If you just took the two bolded statements, it's evident that the conclusion has no premise. IF Smith played the three "Hardly at all".. .how do you know he's better suited for the 4.

Moreover, under what circumstances this season did Smoove play the 3?

Obviously, it wasn't under normal circumstances.

If there was ever a case of agenda manning... This is it agenda man!!!

[exodus]

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This is bad even for a stathead like yourself...

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Smith didn't play the 3 hardly at all this season

and the Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11C.HTM

During the previous season he played the 3 much more frequently and the Hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg when he was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11D.HTM

It is pretty clear he is better suited defensively at the 4.

If you just took the two bolded statements, it's evident that the conclusion has no premise. IF Smith played the three "Hardly at all".. .how do you know he's better suited for the 4.

Because he had played the 3 a lot the previous 3 years. Duh.

he started the '06-'07 season playing the 3 when marvin was out and he started the whole 05-06 season at the 3. His game didn't take off until he moved to the 4.

[crimedog]

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Nobody "matched" up against Gerald Wallace last year. He owns every player on our team who guards him.

Smoove played in less than 20 minutes vs the Bobcats, the one game Wallace played. Although Wallace scored 27pts....Smoove wasn't on the floor. I distinctly remember Smoove having about 3 or 4 blks on Wallace when he was in the game. Marvin was matched up Wallace along with Joe...for the most part.

Yeah, GWallace scored 5pts while Smith was in the game in that one.

[Diesel]

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This question is relevant mainly to defense, can Horford defend centers?

I disagree and circle takes the square.

The question is not limited to defense.

Let me ask you this. IF Utah had found out that Karl Malone can do a credible Job playing Center... Do you think it would have been in their best interest to move him from PF to C?

This is what you guys who say he does OK at Center are saying.

You're saying... to hell with Horf ability as a PF, he does OK at C. I say, he might be an allstar PF. We have to play him at his natural position to find out how good he really is. It's a disservice to do otherwise.

[A-town Hawks]

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This is bad even for a stathead like yourself...

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Smith didn't play the 3 hardly at all this season

and the Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11C.HTM

During the previous season he played the 3 much more frequently and the Hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg when he was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11D.HTM

It is pretty clear he is better suited defensively at the 4.

If you just took the two bolded statements, it's evident that the conclusion has no premise. IF Smith played the three "Hardly at all".. .how do you know he's better suited for the 4.

Moreover, under what circumstances this season did Smoove play the 3?

Obviously, it wasn't under normal circumstances.

If there was ever a case of agenda manning... This is it agenda man!!!

I see where your getting mixed up diesel, You have to that post over a few times to understand it.

What I think he means is that in the 06-07 season Smith played alot more SF because that was the season with Marvins hand injury and he was out for some time, so Smoove played alot more SF. And during this season which saw alot of Smith at the 3, the hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg with smith on the court opposed to him not being on the court.

Now for this pass season where we saw Smith more featured as the PF due to his official move in that spot, Marv being healthy and having more time ar the 3, Hawks lack of Big man depth. The Hawks gave up a whopping 7 ppg FEWER when Smith was playing. (when he was playing most of that time was at PF).

So this concludes that Smoove is better defensively for our team when he is at the 4.

[Joker]

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This is bad even for a stathead like yourself...

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Smith didn't play the 3 hardly at all this season

and the Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL11C.HTM

During the previous season he played the 3 much more frequently and the Hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg when he was playing.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL11D.HTM

It is pretty clear he is better suited defensively at the 4.

If you just took the two bolded statements, it's evident that the conclusion has no premise. IF Smith played the three "Hardly at all".. .how do you know he's better suited for the 4.

Moreover, under what circumstances this season did Smoove play the 3?

Obviously, it wasn't under normal circumstances.

If there was ever a case of agenda manning... This is it agenda man!!!

I see where your getting mixed up diesel, You have to that post over a few times to understand it.

What I think he means is that in the 06-07 season Smith played alot more SF because that was the season with Marvins hand injury and he was out for some time, so Smoove played alot more SF. And during this season which saw alot of Smith at the 3, the hawks gave up 1.2 more ppg with smith on the court opposed to him not being on the court.

Now for this pass season where we saw Smith more featured as the PF due to his official move in that spot, Marv being healthy and having more time ar the 3, Hawks lack of Big man depth. The Hawks gave up a whopping 7 ppg FEWER when Smith was playing. (when he was playing most of that time was at PF).

So this concludes that Smoove is better defensively for our team when he is at the 4.

Let's be real, Smith can't stay in front of many SF's in the league. I still remember the Cavs game were Lebron looked like NBA player playing vs a HS'er and basically assulting Smith in every possible way. I seen it when Marvin was on the bench and they put Smith on RJ and treated Smith like Osama in Times Square basically murdering kid.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good Lord Diesel.

Everybody who consistently watches the Hawks knows that playing Smith at the 3 limits his effectiveness on both ends of the court.

Smith at the 3 is a limited SF that can possibly post up smaller SFs if he develops a sound post game, but can't shoot well enough or handle the ball in the halfcourt offense well enough to be an effective weapon on offense. On defense, he doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay with slasher type SFs.

You have accused Ex of not watching the games in the past, yet, you act like you don't watch the games at times. People have seen enough of Smoove either at the 3, or going off of a switch to guard a 3, to know that he shouldn't be playing that positiion if we want him to be an impact player

The only issue I see in all of this, is finding minutes at PF for Horford. Whenever Smith is out, I want Horford at the PF. And that's only if whomever our backup center can effectively play 12 - 18 minutes at the center spot.

[Diesel]

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Because he had played the 3 a lot the previous 3 years. Duh.

So because Smoove was not this good at the 3 when he was 19, 20... Playing next to Al.. You say he's more suited for the 4... This even after everybody here say that Smoove is starting to mature?

Dude, players mature and players mature at positions.

You took an immature Smoove and compared him to a maturing Smoove and state that it has something to do with him being better at the position of 4. I say when you watch Smoove, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that he doesn't do PF things. He doesn't want to be a PF. You can't make him be a PF if he doesn't want to be one. He won't be effective.

[ATLBob]

Skillset matters more than maturity when it comes to defining positions. Come on D, you know that.

I love that you are constantly looking for ways to improve our shooting (seriously).

Putting Smoove at the 3 makes us a horrible shooting team.

[Swish]

The point is, Al is designed, physically, mentally, etc. to be a 4. In five years he could be abusing Al Jefferson, Amare, etc. I think if we pencil him in at the 4 he is a top flight PF in a few years. I agree with Diesel; I think Smoove would rather play SF, penetrating and being the post help-D. This enables us to field an extremely tall and fast lineup if we pick up a center.

[Joker]

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Because he had played the 3 a lot the previous 3 years. Duh.

So because Smoove was not this good at the 3 when he was 19, 20... Playing next to Al.. You say he's more suited for the 4... This even after everybody here say that Smoove is starting to mature?

Dude, players mature and players mature at positions.

You took an immature Smoove and compared him to a maturing Smoove and state that it has something to do with him being better at the position of 4. I say when you watch Smoove, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that he doesn't do PF things. He doesn't want to be a PF. You can't make him be a PF if he doesn't want to be one. He won't be effective.

There no such thing as mature Smoove. The same mature Smoove that quit Game 7 this season. Yeah, mature Smoove right. I know you love the guy, cool. But you defend him like he's your savior, give it a rest. I like Smoove for the things he does good. I hate Smoove for the things he does wrong. Too many to be quite frank.