Jay's take on the Terry Offer

[Guest]

The Dish: Terry May Sign Offer Sheet with Jazz, Big Deal

Terry Gets Offer From Jazz, May Sign

As expected, someone finally came to the table and showed interest in Jason Terry.

Unfortunately for the Hawks, it was the 21 million in cap space Utah Jazz, who have been turned away by plenty of free agents and have apparently gotten around to calling Jason Terry’s name.

The Salt Lake Tribune says this would be a “premium pickup” for the Jazz, yet it took a while in the process to get to Jason, a player who has been nationally panned as not being a “true point guard.” Apparently, people are coming around to the fact that Jason is a good guard, and have stopped wasting their time on whether any other labels need to apply.

The Tribune suspects a similar deal to the one the Jazz offered Andre Miller will apply to JT, a 6 year, 55 million dollar deal.

So, will the Hawks match? Certainly.

This is why the Hawks made the Big Dog deal, to ensure that, whatever deal they had to match for JT, it wouldn’t send them over the cliff, the cliff threshold that is, where tax rebates go to die.

Now that they have this relief, the Hawks can match any offer sheet JT can sign, and if it’s the one with Utah, done. Billy Knight may have known this was coming, probably expected it, and dealt Big Dog to prepare.

What’s funny is the rhetoric coming from Terry’s agent, Raymond Brothers.

He says that “It's disappointing that after four years of service to the organization and within the community, the Hawks have yet to make any attempt to re-sign Jason.”

Is this true? Sort of.

It’s true in that the Hawks have been patient in the process, waiting for other teams to establish Terry’s market value, and then simply matching it. In other words, they are using the restricted free agent process to do the negotiating for them.

So now a team comes forward with an offer and the Hawks match. Seems like the right thing to do to me. If anything Brothers may have gotten more money going through the process in that a 6 year, 55 million dollar deal may have been more than Terry might have gotten should the Hawks and Brothers not let the market set the value.

That’s not all, this is the funniest part of the quote, Brothers says, ”I've talked with other teams and they were shocked.”

Really? That’s odd that other franchises would try to make a competing franchise look like bad guys by saying they were shocked. I suppose they were shocked despite the fact that they likely conduct restricted free agent business the same way.

I hope that fans don’t bite on the Brothers rhetoric and understand that the Hawks are going to be bringing Terry back, whatever offer sheet he is signing.

It’s the one move that Knight and Kasten have been saying publicly all summer long.

Mavericks Interested in Stephen Jackson

Now, who the Hawks might get other than Terry to fill in some of the cap space might be a tougher task.

The Hawks had been interested in Terry friend and former San Antonio swingman Stephen Jackson, but now it appears that the Mavericks, who have been spurned themselves in the free agent process, are also interested in the 25 year old player.

The Mavericks would be more inclined, one might think, to offer Jackson the longer term contract he may be looking for. As players his level have been signing 3 and 4 year deals, the Mavs might be more apt to overpay than the Hawks, and that might make Jackson a Mav and the Hawks dropping down the free agent rungs to fill in what is only an eight man (healthy) roster.

[Guest]

The last part of this post should be annotated with the knowledge that, according to ESPN,

Dallas Mavericks: The team signed undrafted free agent Marquis Daniels on Tuesday.

The guard averaged 18.3 points and a team-high 3.4 assists for Dallas' Summer League team in Long Beach, Calif., and Salt Lake City.

He averaged 18.4 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 2.3 steals as a senior at Auburn, making the All-Southeastern Conference second team.

~thus going after S. Jackson may be somewhat less of an option at this point....?

[KB21]

I agree with Jay. The Hawks are going to match this deal, and it was their intention all along to let the market set his value. It looks like that has happened.

The only thing is, I think that had the Hawks offered him a deal earlier, it would have sent a better message to Terry. Had they come out and offered Terry a 6 year deal worth $50-55 million or a 7 year deal worth $55-60 million, I think they would have sent the message to Terry that this is his team.

They can still get that message across, but I just would have rather they gotten this done earlier. Of course, trying to dump Glenn Robinson so they could even match a deal that JT got was the first thing to get done.

[Diesel]

Atlanta should have offered before a desperate Utah team did....

Utah is grasping for what they can get. They overpriced Terry because they know of our reluctance to go into the luxury tax area. I say... "Let them have him".

The whole deal reminds me of Jon Koncak. Back some time ago, we knew what Koncak was worth. However, Detroit was desperate for a big man offered our Young alternative to Karl Malone 1.0 million dollars per year. At the time, that was a lot of money. I think it was more than Pat Ewing was making and may have been more than Dominique was making. Anyway, we matched and suffered through that long contract with Koncak.

Now, I'm not equating Terry to Koncak, but the situations are similar.

for you with rose colored glasses... JT is NOT a great PG. He's not even a good one. That's why he's in the third tier of FAs. The whole league knows that JT is an undersized SG. He is flawed in playmaking and court vision. Regaurdless of how pretty you try to dress him up, that's the truth. JT's bloated assists are like Joe Montana's Yards per game. Sure Montana completed the pass... But it was a 10 yard crossing pattern that Rice took for 80 yards. Montana gets credit for an 80 yard pass. The same is true for JT. IN the routine portion of our offense, passing to Reef in the post is a part of it. Rarely do you see JT making the play.

I think going to Utah will either help JT immensely or will destroy him. Sloan has always been a coach concerned with Structure. He is exactly what JT needs. Unfortunately, that means is JT does not perform to par, he can't blame the coach. Sloan's coaching is COY level every year.

[Boondocks]

Utah will definitely overpay, they are 20 million under the salary cap (their payroll is only 23 million) and need to be at 32+ million to avoid paying penalties for being to far below under the cap.

They might severely overpay for JT and use the remainder of their caproom for trades and/or next year's FA.

[cyman3]

- was it higher than i expected? yeah it was...

- do i think he deserves it? yea, why not?

like KB said, JT has allstar potential all over him. the truth is Diesel, thats his market value.

i think the hawks didnt bid for Terry thinkin Terry is just our little secret and with Arenas taking most of spotlight, the hawks prob thought nobody would make a serious bid on terry (since he said he wanted to stay in ATL). They prob just wanted the to see how much other teams valued JT. When u have MIKE BIBBY/BARON DAVIS with that type of money, i dont see why he cant get about 9 million a year.

WHY HE DESERVES THAT MUCH

- WARD/EISLEY are at $6 million, but NY PGs are overpaid these days.

- MARBURY is at averaging 14 million or so...

- BDIDDY is averaging 13ish

- "WHITE CHOCOLATE" is averaging 7.5ish

- BIBBY is around 12ish

- STOUDAMIRE at 15ish

WHY HE DESERVES LESS

- CASSELL is around 6 million

- PAYTON is around 5 million

- NASH at 5.75 million

im sure Diesel would rather have any of those 3 guards at their price than JT at his price, but those 3 guys are special. Nash didnt have that breakout season b4 he signed his contact. Payton picked winning over money (he could have received more). Cassell either signed a long contract or just got ripped off.

overall, GOOD PGs are making their share of money these days... and with that in mind and knowing what JT brings to the table- why shouldnt he get that 9 million?

- I THINK ITS ABSOLUTELY FAIR ON BOTH SIDES.. im happy. hawks need to match it. Think of it this way, the best PG in this game is averaging 16-17 million a year. While JT isint the best but clearly better than the average starting PG, why shouldnt he get 9 million? Its almost half of Jason Kidds. He does bring in HALF OF JASON KIDDS impact to this team... so why not?

[Guest]

The truth is that now the Hawks no choice but to match.

After trading Dog he's got to be matched.Don't bring that

Wade shyt to me again.That guy hasn't even scored a

[censored] basket.

If we s&T JT we need a proven young player in return and

not a rookie!

If David McDavid does decide to gut the team it's really

not going to matter anyway is it?That means he doesnt

want to compete so it makes everything pointless really.

[dj_me]

In reply to:

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From the above article.

The Salt Lake Tribune says this would be a “premium pickup” for the Jazz, yet it took a while in the process to get to Jason, a player who has been nationally panned as not being a “true point guard.” Apparently, people are coming around to the fact that Jason is a good guard, and have stopped wasting their time on whether any other labels need to apply.

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In reply to:

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JT is NOT a great PG. He's not even a good one... The whole league knows that JT is an undersized SG.

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You complain about people not being able to see from another persons (i.e. you) point of view or how they don't really read and understand what is being said, but then you go and post that response after, supposedly, reading the article. Come on Diesel, you're slippin'.

[KB21]

You are such a biased idiot!

Jason Terry isn't a top point guard, yet he's in the top ten among point guards in scoring, top ten among point guards in assists, and top 15 among point guards in assist to turnover ratio.

Now, you try equating his situation to the situation of Jon Koncak, who never had a productive season in his Hawks career.

You are so biased it isn't funny.

Jason Terry isn't a 3rd tier free agent. Jason Terry has an offer on the table, but he's giving the Hawks every chance to get their management and ownership situation sorted out before making a decision.

Again. Take Gilbert Arenas's numbers and compare them to Jason Terry's. Show me exactly what makes Gilbert Arenas a better point guard than Jason Terry based on those numbers.

Show me exactly how Jason Terry plays the position any differently than Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, or Baron Davis.

[cyman3]

look at his numbers and baron davis. Both have respective numbers while neither are dominating the other. BDavis is earning more (assuming JT gets that 9 million), so why not????

[KB21]

Yeah. Diesel tries to say that JT isn't a good point guard, but he's never liked JT simply because Mookie Blaylock was traded for him.

Top 10 Scoring PGs

1. Stephon Marbury/Suns - 22.3 ppg

2. Steve Francis/Rockets - 21.0 ppg

3. Gary Payton/Lakers - 20.4 ppg

4. Sam Cassell/Timberwolves - 19.7 ppg

5. Jason Kidd/Nets - 18.7 ppg

6. Gilbert Arenas/Wizards - 18.3 ppg

7. Steve Nash/Mavericks - 17.7 ppg

8. Jason Terry/Hawks - 17.2 ppg

9. Chauncey Billups/Pistons - 16.2 ppg

10. Tony Parker/Spurs - 15.5 ppg

Top 10 Passing PGs

1. Jason Kidd/Nets - 8.9 apg

2. Jason Williams/Grizzlies - 8.3 apg

3. Gary Payton/Lakers - 8.3 apg

4. Stephon Marbury/Suns - 8.1 apg

5. John Stockton/Jazz - 7.7 apg

6. Jamaal Tinsley/Pacers - 7.5 apg

7. Jason Terry/Hawks - 7.4 apg

8. Steve Nash/Mavericks - 7.3 apg

9. Andre Miller/Nuggets - 6.7 apg

10. Eric Snow/76ers - 6.6 apg

Top 14 ASS/TO PGs

1. Jason Williams/Grizzlies - 3.76

2. Gary Payton/Lakers - 3.55

3. John Stockton/Jazz - 3.25

4. Alvin Williams/Raptors - 3.25

5. Derek Fisher/Lakers - 3.17

6. Steve Nash/Mavericks - 3.11

7. Howard Eisley/Knicks - 2.98

8. Jamaal Tinsley/Pacers - 2.85

9. Eric Snow/76ers - 2.80

10. Andre Miller/Nuggets - 2.61

11. Sam Cassell/Timberwolves - 2.54

12. Stephon Marbury/Suns - 2.49

13. Jason Terry/Hawks - 2.41

14. Jason Kidd/Nets - 2.40

[cyman3]

are so close... PPG/APG. But Nash actually has guys that can shoot... lol

Diesel, if u want a playmaker and could careless about how well he scores... ur man is Jason Williams (memphis). Just control his 3's and hes ur man. GP is good too but lakers arent gonna give him away (that be MESSED UP if they traded him, lol). Kidd isint going anywhere. We all know Tinsley passes cuz he cant shoot (hes a very good streetballer and just a decent starting PG).

im guessing u'd love a TERRY for ANDRE MILLER trade... but thats absolutely stupid when we have NO SG (hansen doesnt count).

all i ask... is 1 thing and 1 thing only

1)Give JT a somewhat scoring threat (14+ ppg) player that can handle the rock with him. Give it a try... doesnt matter who, Wesley Person is fine... and give it a shot

[Playmaker0017]

KB,

I have to disagree on this one.

I think JTs stats are good, there is no denying that. But, I think the stats on him are deceiving.

JT can score. No doubt. I won't argue that one, except I will point out that he shot a miserable percentage this past year.

JT may have assists, but he is not CREATING assists. He passed the ball to Big Hog who chunked the ball up every time, and it went in some of the time. You get an assist. I rarely saw JT break a defense down and hit an open man.

He doesn't have a penetrate and dish ability - or has been hesitant to show it.

Now, I will admit ... part of this is due to our system, which was designed to have the ball in one person's hands and then everyone else was expected to stand around and watch.

Get a decent system in place and maybe JT will flourish. B

But right now, I wouldn't call him an elite PG.

But as Hots said ... we have no choice but to match the offer right now.

Play.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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was it higher than i expected? yeah it was...

- do i think he deserves it? yea, why not?

like KB said, JT has allstar potential all over him. the truth is Diesel, thats his market value.

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Let me ask you something Cyman...

Would you pay Lexus Money for a Toyota?

If I told you I had a Toyota Avalon... Just one and I was willing to sell it to you for $63,000 would you buy it? IF I told you it was Just like a Lexus and Maybe was made right beside a Lexus would you give me $63,000 for it? If I told you that your next door Neighbor was willing to buy it at my price but I will give you this last chance to buy it because I see you walking all the time, would you pay $63,000 for this Avalon?

The Point is that Terry will never be an allstar as a PG. As a PG he will probably never lead a team to the playoffs. He's a SG. As a SG, he might make the Allstar game (still difficult with AI, McGrady, Pierce, Carter).

The Point is that Terry has done nothing to deserve that kind of payment from us. We would be overpaying him out of desparation. Trust me... From History i know that those kind of deals are the ones that hamstring a team 3 years down the road. Look at Hendu. Look at CC. Look at Koncak. Have we learned NOTHING?

[Diesel]

The article said that JT was a GOOD Guard.

I said that JT is not a good PG or Point Guard

There is a difference. For instance... Alan Houston is a good Guard. Allen Iverson is a good Guard. Ray Allen is a good Guard.

But none of these guys are good PGs. The article didn't say that Terry was either. That's because the Whole league KNOWS that Terry is a SG trapped in a PG's BODY. That doesn't make him a PG. Terry is not a good PG because Terry has Bad Floor vision and Terry's Mentality isn't one whereby he wants to LEAD a team and Make Plays. It's like Marbury has said... "A POINT GUARD is a gift from God.... Either you are one or you are not.".

[KB21]

This is where I disagree.

His so called miserable shooting percentage is not much different than most point guard's shooting percentage. He shot roughly 43% from the field. Compared to Stephon Marbury, who shot roughly 44% from the field. JT shot right at 38% from 3 point land though.

Jason Terry is a player that takes a lot of 3 point attempts. More than a third of his total field goal attempts were three pointers.

Another part where I disagree is his ability to penetrate and dish. He does have this ability, and he has shown on numerous occasions that he's terrific at it. For whatever reason, he isn't asked to do that a lot. It has to be system related, because he was an incredible drive and dish point guard at Arizona.

Plus, if JT was getting assists because he throws the ball to Glenn Robinson, why didn't his assists drop with Robinson out of the line up? They didn't. Instead, the ball was more spread around. He got Dion Glover more involved in the action. He got Ira Newble more involved in the action. He got Theo Ratliff more involved in the action. His assists without Robinson in the line up actually went up to over 8 a game.

Jason Terry is not much different than point guards like Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, and Gary Payton. These guys can score and they can get their teammates involved, but they are players that have to be the focal point of the offense.

I'm not puting Terry in their class yet, but ever since he was moved exclusively to the point guard position with about 32 games left in the 2001-2002 season, he's done nothing but get better and better as a point guard. He will never be what some want to call a "true" point guard in the John Stockton sense, but it is very hipocritcal to say he's a shooting guard and call Marbury, Francis, and a guy like Arenas a point guard in the same breath.

You put him in a system that allows him to play his game and he will excell. He will put up at least 20 points and 8 assists a night, and the team will win because the players are being used to their strengths.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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Jason Terry isn't a top point guard, yet he's in the top ten among point guards in scoring, top ten among point guards in assists, and top 15 among point guards in assist to turnover ratio.

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Yeah and Big Dog is in the top 3 amoung Sfs in Scoring and rebounding. He should have been an allstar. KB.... Stats don't tell the whole story. Have you watched JT play. I mean, I know you're somewhere in Oxford Miss watching HS games thinking about how good Terry is one on one... But have you actually taken the time to see if he can run the offense. If you had, you'd see a lot more than Stats. You'd see lack of court vision. You'd see a guy who looks like he'd rather not run the offense at all. His mentality is to take the ball and pass it and set up to shoot... That's the mentality of a SG.

In reply to:

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Jason Terry isn't a 3rd tier free agent. Jason Terry has an offer on the table, but he's giving the Hawks every chance to get their management and ownership situation sorted out before making a decision.

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Ha. Have you noticed all the PGs that have been sought after and taken before JT. I mean: Arenas, Miller, Armstrong, Lue, etc... The only reason JT got a call from Utah is because Utah has so much money to spend and they have been unsuccessful thus far. I mean, from the beginning there were teams in dire need of PGing help... JT hadn't got a call until NOW. DO you know why???

In reply to:

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Again. Take Gilbert Arenas's numbers and compare them to Jason Terry's. Show me exactly what makes Gilbert Arenas a better point guard than Jason Terry based on those numbers.

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OK Statman... How about this:

GS - 38-44

Hawks = 35-47

I think that's about the most telling stat of all. Simply because We had better players than Golden State. We had an easier schedule than Golden State... Yet Arenas' team was able to win more than us.

Or how about this STAT MAN...

http://www.nba.com/games/20030211/GSWATL/boxscore.html

Arenas... 37 points, 14 of 19 shooting, 3 assists, 5 rebounds...

Terry.....8 points, 3 of 7 shooting, 5 assists, 2 rebound...

I guess this beat down was Big Dog's fault. I mean, he only scored 25 points on 10/15 shooting. Damnit Big Dog... How could you miss those 5 shots.

http://www.nba.com/games/20030223/ATLGSW/boxscore.html

Or maybe it's this one:

Arenas....18 points, 7/15 shooting, 6 assists, 2 rebounds.

Terry.... 19 points, 8/14 shooting, 7 assists, 5 rebounds...

Yeah, what a comeback... We still loss though.

Isn't it interesting. The time when JT looks good, BOTH of our other major scoring have horrid shooting days? Actually everybody else. Glover shot 0% and the team shot 33%. Who is running this offense?

Get your head out of JT's Butt.

[JTFan31]

Diesel sometimes you really make no sense. First of all Koncak was a bust, and JT is not. Like I read something the other day, I forgot where, JT is one of only 5 players to avg 17+ppg and 7+apg......the others were J. Kidd, S. Nash, S. Marbury and I forgot who the other PG was. Now dont you think thats one heck of a group to only do that and JT is one of those 5. Gimme a break Diesel, you obviously want JT gone and is not gonna happen. Im tired of you always wanting to trade JT and wanting other teams to sign JT, but for your info buddy, JT is a hawk and will be for years to come. No he is no J. Kidd or a great PG, but he is one heck of a player and of what I saw last year he did a very good job running the point for the first time in his career.

Now answer me this Diesel and be honest, say we bring in andre Miller and he avgs 7.5 apg, would you be happy with that?

[cyman3]

"Yeah, what a comeback... We still loss though."

- thats just 1 series diesel. im sure i could go back and take a series with another team where JT played absolutely well/we win the game/GROB played poorly but quite frankly- im not willin to go back and look at 82 games worth of boxscores....

as for ur lexus metaphor...

"Would you pay Lexus Money for a Toyota?"

- If and only if the value of cars suddenly went up. Toyotas cost more these days and Lexus costs even more than those. Seein that i have some money to spend, and knowin that Toyota is a reliable car... and knowing that my Toyota was young... why not?

Are u insisting that we get a brand new Kia for Kia money??? how on earth are we suppose to win any races with that car?

unless u have a better plan to get me from POINT A to POINT B, i would have to buy that car cuz its a necessity. Having one will mean going back to STRATCH and lookin ahead for the next couple years instead of this year.

- if ur neighbor was going to buy that Toyota for that price BUT THE MARKET has that TOYOTA for that price.... why not go for it? and who says that Toyota is Lexus money? Lexus = Jason Kidd... Toyota = Jason Terry. Jason Terry is making about 50% of JKIDD money, half the price for very good production... not the best production out in the market, but very good one...

ONE QUESTION for u DIESEL...

- suppose we do this, get him for that 9 million average offer... u obviously think hes overpaid for his impact on our team. that being said, do u think BIBBY/DAVIS/MILLER/ARENAS are overpaid?

[KB21]

Your bias just won't let you see it at the moment. I'll continue blasting your theories out of the water though till you realize it.

Your first falsehood is his lack of court vision. Yet, he's terrific in the open floor at finding the open man. You would notice that if you actually watched this team play in transition instead of trying to come up with some stupid trade that brings some cocaine snorting, woman beating, child molesting, dead beat dad thug to the team.

In reply to:

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Ha. Have you noticed all the PGs that have been sought after and taken before JT. I mean: Arenas, Miller, Armstrong, Lue, etc... The only reason JT got a call from Utah is because Utah has so much money to spend and they have been unsuccessful thus far. I mean, from the beginning there were teams in dire need of PGing help... JT hadn't got a call until NOW. DO you know why???

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Here you are trying to infer a reason for JT not being signed yet. JT must not be getting any interest. Oh, wait. JT himself is quoted in the AJC today saying that he's letting the Hawks ownership situation get sorted out before he makes a decision.