If Chillz goes..So be it

[tmac13]

I can understand all the frustration over Smoove staying or going but I simply don't feel that way about Chillz. Chillz is a slightly above average player on a slightly below average team. He plays the 2/3 which is easily the most plentiful position to replace. He is a little injury prone, he a very average defender, and he wants more money than he is worth to the Hawks.. He does not have so much talent that the Hawks could expect significant improvement over the course of a long contract. He is what he is, a nice backup 2/3.. If he can get large money overseas then good for him, but that doesn't reflect poorly on the Hawks for choosing not to overpay him with at least 3 better, more important players in Marvin, Horf, and JJ coming up for extentions in the next couple of years. If they are overpay it should be to Smoove.

[Buzzard]

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I can understand all the frustration over Smoove staying or going but I simply don't feel that way about Chillz. Chillz is a slightly above average player on a slightly below average team. He plays the 2/3 which is easily the most plentiful position to replace. He is a little injury prone, he a very average defender, and he wants more money than he is worth to the Hawks.. He does not have so much talent that the Hawks could expect significant improvement over the course of a long contract. He is what he is, a nice backup 2/3.. If he can get large money overseas then good for him, but that doesn't reflect poorly on the Hawks for choosing not to overpay him with at least 3 better, more important players in Marvin, Horf, and JJ coming up for extentions in the next couple of years. If they are overpay it should be to Smoove.

I agree 100%. I Like Chilz a lot; but not enough to overpay. Overpaying him now would cost us dearly when Horf and JJ's contracts are up...

[skyhawk]

I'm not saying that we should overpay Chillz but like many on this board you fail to recognize his value. You can't measure a player's contribution in stats alone. Funny, but other teams seem to value Childress much more than most on this board.

Chillz is a much better defender than people give him credit for being, he's one of he most versatile players in the league, he plays without the ball - a value that stat watchers will never see, he brings it every night and he's a straight up team guy.

The idea of replacing Chillz with JR Smith is laughable in itself. So what he put up 43 points. He's got major holes in his game and he won't bring the things that Chillz provides. Just one man's opinion.

[Diesel]

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I can understand all the frustration over Smoove staying or going but I simply don't feel that way about Chillz. Chillz is a slightly above average player on a slightly below average team. He plays the 2/3 which is easily the most plentiful position to replace. He is a little injury prone, he a very average defender, and he wants more money than he is worth to the Hawks.. He does not have so much talent that the Hawks could expect significant improvement over the course of a long contract. He is what he is, a nice backup 2/3.. If he can get large money overseas then good for him, but that doesn't reflect poorly on the Hawks for choosing not to overpay him with at least 3 better, more important players in Marvin, Horf, and JJ coming up for extentions in the next couple of years. If they are overpay it should be to Smoove.

I think what we notice is that there's a lot of underestimation of Chillz. Chillz has done what he was asked to do. He has done it well. He poses a threat on the boards for a guy his size. He is a very efficient shooter. He is a good ball handler. He can finish with the best of them. To say he's easily replaceable or that he offers nothing is underestimating what Chillz brings. Often times, Chillz takes the pressure off of our guards and forwards by filling needs where he is needed.

Let's be honest, we are a poor post scoring team. We take away Chillz and we become poorer. He has made the post a place where defenses can't walk away from.

But more than just play. It's value. Other teams want CHillz. You mean to tell me we can't find a doable sign and trade and would just rather watch him Walk?? Then say... SO BE IT?

Even if you can replace your old plasma screen television... do you just put the other one outside and say If you can carry it it's yours?

[Dexmethylphenidate]

To paraphrase someone that describe the situation perfectly is that the Hawks still need shooters and backup inside help with or without Childress.

[Diesel]

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To paraphrase someone that describe the situation perfectly is that the Hawks still need shooters and backup inside help with or without Childress.

That's why you trade.

I don't know if you guys don't get it or what.

Even if Chillz is not resigned..

We're still at 51.747... Before Smoove signs. We will not have the money to sign all these FAs you guys keep proposing. They will have to be signed on the SAME MLE that they would be signed with if CHillz were signed.

So here's your choice:

A: Chillz +needed shooters and backup inside help

or

B: needed shooters and backup inside help

Not signing Chillz will not increase the MLE.

[Buzzard]

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But more than just play. It's value. Other teams want CHillz. You mean to tell me we can't find a doable sign and trade and would just rather watch him Walk?? Then say... SO BE IT?

That is right. These other teams know Chilz has a great offer in Greece. The key is what teams can use Chilz as a starter and at the same time offer us value?

I do not think there are that many. I have seen trade scenarios like Kaman popping up; but do you really think a team is going to offer their starting center for Chilz? I don't; not in a million years. Nor do I think we can get a starting quality PG for Chilz either.

We are being low balled for Chilz because he has made it clear he wants to start and he wants starters money. Not a lot of compromise on Chilz part. If we cannot at least get a 1st round pick for Chilz; let him go to Greece. At least over there we will still hold his rights and we do not have to compete against him...

[Diesel]

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To paraphrase someone that describe the situation perfectly is that the Hawks still need shooters and backup inside help with or without Childress.

That's why you trade.

I don't know if you guys don't get it or what.

Even if Chillz is not resigned..

We're still at 51.747... Before Smoove signs. We will not have the money to sign all these FAs you guys keep proposing. They will have to be signed on the SAME MLE that they would be signed with if CHillz were signed.

So here's your choice:

A: Chillz +needed shooters and backup inside help

or

B: needed shooters and backup inside help

Not signing Chillz will not increase the MLE.

The other thing is the CALIBRE of the FAs we signed.

Here's another trick. YOu guys keep talking about Brown, Morris, Evans, Dooling.

First off, Chillz is better than all those guys.

Second. Some of those guys won't sign with US for the portion of the MLE that we will offer.

We're only able to offer 1 maybe 2 Million dollar deals. You guys are talking about 3 maybe 4 million dollar players.

Get ya mind right.

We need to get our value players together and look at making a trade and then signing maybe two of our summer leaguers.

[crimedog]

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To paraphrase someone that describe the situation perfectly is that the Hawks still need shooters and backup inside help with or without Childress.

Childress fits our team strengths as a good transition player and a guy who can get points down low through athleticism but not isolation and he doesn't help our weakness which are defensive rebounding, shooting, and a perimeter defender who can check quicker players.

If Childress leaves than Smith will be put on the left baseline where Childress was and someone else will flank Joe to the left where Smith is when the two are on the court together. Dolfan has pointed out that no one (with the exception of Joe) gets played to their strengths on offense as much as Chil, last year at least. The reason for this is because we don't have any other bench players that Woody trusts so we often manipulate our lineup so that Chil fits into it as an all purpose backup. If we use the MLE (which we wouldn't use if we resigned Chil to a big deal because of the LuxTax) to grab players that fill our needs more than Chil, even if they are less talented, we might be better than we would by overusing Childress.

I'd prefer the type of trade I said earlier Chil for Head/Hayes from the Rockets (works b/c BYC I think) because it fills a couple of holes but if Chil walks and we spend the money on players that fill roles, I wouldn't be shattererd.

[coachx]

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To paraphrase someone that describe the situation perfectly is that the Hawks still need shooters and backup inside help with or without Childress.

That's why you trade.

I don't know if you guys don't get it or what.

Even if Chillz is not resigned..

We're still at 51.747... Before Smoove signs. We will not have the money to sign all these FAs you guys keep proposing. They will have to be signed on the SAME MLE that they would be signed with if CHillz were signed.

So here's your choice:

A: Chillz +needed shooters and backup inside help

or

B: needed shooters and backup inside help

Not signing Chillz will not increase the MLE.

The other thing is the CALIBRE of the FAs we signed.

Here's another trick. YOu guys keep talking about Brown, Morris, Evans, Dooling.

First off, Chillz is better than all those guys.

Second. Some of those guys won't sign with US for the portion of the MLE that we will offer.

We're only able to offer 1 maybe 2 Million dollar deals. You guys are talking about 3 maybe 4 million dollar players.

Get ya mind right.

We need to get our value players together and look at making a trade and then signing maybe two of our summer leaguers.

The MLE is $5.58 mill I believe.

Give Brown $3 mill per for 2 years

Give Morris $2.58 mill for 2 years

It is not too far off to guess those offers would be accepted. Especially considering they are native Georgians.

Luke Jackson and Richardson are not as good as Chillz but they can both shoot very well and would be happy with 1 year minimum deals at $450 - 500 K a piece.

Then ZaZa is the bargaining chip as an expring $4 mill contract to bring in a wing upgrade if Jackson and Richardson dissapoint.

As Traceman said, Law and Horford should pick up some of the slack with natural improvement in their 2nd seasons. You will love this Deisel. Your boy Marvin may even feel the heat to produce more.

Chillz is ijust not worth a deal starting at $ 7 mill per and escalating up to $9 mill per. I would give him full MLE all day but not more for a 6th man b/c one day it will cost us Smith or Horford.

[Diesel]

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If Childress leaves than Smith will be put on the left baseline where Childress was and someone else will flank Joe to the left where Smith is when the two are on the court together.

This is the start of a very weak argument.

Let's put some things in perspective.

If you owned a boat that everybody in the neighborhood wanted but it didn't fit your need at the time, would you just let it drift out to sea and say So Be it??

The first point I want you to try and discuss is value.

Even if you don't see how Chillz benefit the Hawks, why not sign him and trade him off later for what we need because the demand for Chillz is high? Imagine, if we got Chillz signed to a reasonable contract, do you understand what teams would give for him??

Anybody that says let him go.. Please answer the question.

Why would you get rid of value so easily?

The second point goes into our team.

You've discussed where Chillz don't fit, but you have not denied that his strengths play to our team's strength. Do you know how many teams wish they had a player who can play without the ball? Who is unselfish? Who works continuiously? Who has the versatility to do a lot more than be one dimensional?

What you've done is look at Chillz, point to the fact that we don't use him or anybody but JJ correctly... and say aha, Chillz must go? HUH???

The last point of discussion is Marvin?

How can you say that Chillz don't fit (when he does a lot of things that we need very well) but say keep Marvin at all cost? When Marvin does NOTHING.

[Diesel]

So you think Kwame Brown is going to take a deal with us that starts off at 1.35 Million?

Moreover, it's only 2 year deal.

Here's some clues.

Kwame made about 9 Million last season.

The Vet Min is about 1.26 Million to start.

[Chris18]

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So you think Kwame Brown is going to take a deal with us that starts off at 1.35 Million?

Moreover, it's only 2 year deal.

Here's some clues.

Kwame made about 9 Million last season.

The Vet Min is about 1.26 Million to start.

He said sign to sign Kwame for 2 years for 6 million.

[coachx]

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So you think Kwame Brown is going to take a deal with us that starts off at 1.35 Million?

Moreover, it's only 2 year deal.

Here's some clues.

Kwame made about 9 Million last season.

The Vet Min is about 1.26 Million to start.

1. We all know Brown was over paid at $9 mill and every one knows he will not make anything close to that.

2. I said Brown may split the MLE and not require all of it. I am guessing $3 mill per for 2 years will get Brown to play in his home state after never really finding a place that was happy to have him to call home. Throw in a 3rd year if you HAVE too.

3. L. Jackson and Richardson were the players I was refering to who would play for the league minimum of $450 - $500 K / they don't have enough years of service to get the veterans minimum of $1.25 mill.

[exodus]

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When Marvin does NOTHING.

If 15/6 is nothing that certainly doesn't speak to well for Childress' 12/5.

[tmac13]

Who else outside of Greece values Chillz at 7 million per year? I have not heard of any offer. Guys like Posey, who in my opinion are every bit as good if not better than Chillz have not gotten 7 million dollar offers. I would rather overpay on Smoove and replace Chillz if we have to. Sasha V of the Lakers and JR Smith would both be much cheaper options and bring more offense to the table. I would love to have a backup shooting guard who could shoot. I would love to have Chillz back but only at the right price.

[crimedog]

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If Childress leaves than Smith will be put on the left baseline where Childress was and someone else will flank Joe to the left where Smith is when the two are on the court together.

This is the start of a very weak argument.

Let's put some things in perspective.

If you owned a boat that everybody in the neighborhood wanted but it didn't fit your need at the time, would you just let it drift out to sea and say So Be it??

The first point I want you to try and discuss is value.

Even if you don't see how Chillz benefit the Hawks, why not sign him and trade him off later for what we need because the demand for Chillz is high? Imagine, if we got Chillz signed to a reasonable contract, do you understand what teams would give for him??

Anybody that says let him go.. Please answer the question.

Why would you get rid of value so easily?

The second point goes into our team.

You've discussed where Chillz don't fit, but you have not denied that his strengths play to our team's strength. Do you know how many teams wish they had a player who can play without the ball? Who is unselfish? Who works continuiously? Who has the versatility to do a lot more than be one dimensional?

What you've done is look at Chillz, point to the fact that we don't use him or anybody but JJ correctly... and say aha, Chillz must go? HUH???

The last point of discussion is Marvin?

How can you say that Chillz don't fit (when he does a lot of things that we need very well) but say keep Marvin at all cost? When Marvin does NOTHING.

Boat example - Childress can either go to Europe, stay with the Hawks, or be SnTed to a team willing to offer him what he wants. We know this, every other team in the league knows this, and Childress knows this. I'm not sure what has come across Sund's plate just yet but if "everybody in the neighborhood" wants Childress at the price it would take to keep him in the US, they would have offered it already because they know as well as we do he could just chill in Europe for more money.

I've discussed Childress' strengths and weaknesses and I've made my theory on how good teams stay good perfectly clear in other threads. You overpay for your talent, like we had to do for JJ, and you find affordable role players to fill your holes with the rest of your money. Childress doesn't fill our holes whether he is here or not and he is no longer affordable.

Marvin is a different situation altogether, he isn't up for extension, he is under contract. Would I trade him for a better fit if I had the chance? Sure, I don't think he's going to be a star. Unfortunately this has nothing to do with the situation that Childress is in where he can either go to Europe for a boatload of money or choose to stay here for, probably, the same amount.

To sum everything up, I understand the concept of value on investment but if no one is offering anything for Childress at the price he is going to have to be due to the Euro offer, we can't get any value for him. Since no one is offering anything, our alternatives are to let him go to Europe as our RFA or to sign him to a contract that will put us in a situation where he will still be the only backup we have. I'd prefer to let him go and pursue other options with the MLE.

Again, if we can get a good SnT offer from a team like Dallas or Houston, I'm all for it. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the offers are satisfying us or Childress and both parties have to sign off.

[Buzzard]

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To paraphrase someone that describe the situation perfectly is that the Hawks still need shooters and backup inside help with or without Childress.

That's why you trade.

I don't know if you guys don't get it or what.

Even if Chillz is not resigned..

We're still at 51.747... Before Smoove signs. We will not have the money to sign all these FAs you guys keep proposing. They will have to be signed on the SAME MLE that they would be signed with if CHillz were signed.

So here's your choice:

A: Chillz +needed shooters and backup inside help

or

B: needed shooters and backup inside help

Not signing Chillz will not increase the MLE.

We get it just fine Diesel. If we cannot get value for Chilz, it is better to let him go to Europe. You act like getting value for Chilz is simple and no one has tried in our front office. Chilz agent has been working around the clock trying to get something done as well.

Chilz wants to start and he wants starters money. He has made that clear. Now you tell me what teams will give Chilz 50 to 55 mill for five years plus throw in good trade value to us?

My answer is no one so far and that should be clear to everyone on this board by now. If we do not get equal value for Chilz; let him go to Greece and we retain his rights. That is a much better option than just giving him away for 2nd round picks; and giving up his rights. (See Marcus Camby trade for example)

We can always trade him later as long as we own his rights. Sign him to a bad contract and it becomes that much harder to trade him. He wants starters money (10 mill a year) and at this point in his career he is not worth it; and he may never be worth it either...

Your comparisons to Marvin is a joke. Marvin is at least equal to Chilz at this point in his career and is three years younger, bigger, and stronger and still on a rookie contract. Furthermore Chilz has been in the league a year longer.

If you do not get anything, get this:

10 mill a year for Chilz is not good value. If it was, he would have at least one offer from someone on the table by now...

[tmac13]

I don't underestimate what Chillz brings to the table. I think he has value. I simply think he is a 4 or 5 million dollar guy instead of a 7 million dollar guy. I think he is an excellent garbage player. He is usually in the right place at the right time and he plays hard. I also know the Hawks desperately need a real shooter off the bench and they need a big. To me those needs are more pressing than Chillz. If the Hawks overpay Chillz it not only hurts this summer in restricting us from improving but it hurts in the future trying to resign and extend guys.

[GameTime]

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I don't underestimate what Chillz brings to the table. I think he has value. I simply think he is a 4 or 5 million dollar guy instead of a 7 million dollar guy. I think he is an excellent garbage player. He is usually in the right place at the right time and he plays hard. I also know the Hawks desperately need a real shooter off the bench and they need a big. To me those needs are more pressing than Chillz. If the Hawks overpay Chillz it not only hurts this summer in restricting us from improving but it hurts in the future trying to resign and extend guys.

I agree.