The most important reason Flip Murray plays

[HawkItus]

Joe and Bibby trust him. Plain and simple. Joe loves the guy as evidenced by his Pre-season statements. When Bibby plays with Flip he actually defers on many trips down the floor. I don't see Acie getting that respect. And you can't say its an age thing because Al gets that respect. The only thing I can think is that Acie doesn't give it up in practice to earn that respect. I've seen many of the Hawks say how much Flip and Horf give it up in practice sessions. Never heard that about Acie.

[coachx]

Joe and Bibby trust him. Plain and simple. Joe loves the guy as evidenced by his Pre-season statements. When Bibby plays with Flip he actually defers on many trips down the floor. I don't see Acie getting that respect. And you can't say its an age thing because Al gets that respect. The only thing I can think is that Acie doesn't give it up in practice to earn that respect. I've seen many of the Hawks say how much Flip and Horf give it up in practice sessions. Never heard that about Acie.

What is your definition of "give it up ?"

I would imagine that means to pass the ball. Law got 5 assist in 7 minutes vs. Boston. Flip got 1 in 22 minutes.

I think Flip plays b/c the 2nd unit needs scoring. It just seems Flip gets better shots when Law or Bibby are out there to set him up. Granted Flip can get to the rack on his own but so can Law.

Edited December 22, 2008 by coachx

[macdaddy]

I think its a comfort level. Those guys have been in the league and they know what to expect from each other on the floor most of the time. They don't know what Acie is capable of and is going to do. But you have to get Acie experience. We will need it at some point and if he doesn't start getting some time he won't be ready.

The glaring thing to me from the Boston game is that they have a second unit. We don't. We have a least two starters on the floor at all times. Boston had the whole starting unit on the bench for quite a few minutes.

[thefloydian]

I am really getting sick of Flip's patented "drive to the basket, go up for the layup, realize it's going to be blocked but has no one to pass to so the ball just falls to the ground" move.

[HawkItus]

What is your definition of "give it up ?"

I would imagine that means to pass the ball. Law got 5 assist in 7 minutes vs. Boston. Flip got 1 in 22 minutes.

I think Flip plays b/c the 2md unit needs scoring. It just seems Flip gets better shots when Law or Bibby are out there to set him up. Granted Flip can get to the rack on his own but so can Law.

no "give it up" "play hard" "balls to the walls"

I don't thin Acie is coming with the intensity during practices. I'd be interested to see what Sekou says about this. I've never seen him talk about Acie having a really good practice session. He raved about Horf. He talked about Solo and Flip, even had a few nuggets on Murray. Never Acie.

[uga2006]

no "give it up" "play hard" "balls to the walls"

I don't thin Acie is coming with the intensity during practices. I'd be interested to see what Sekou says about this. I've never seen him talk about Acie having a really good practice session. He raved about Horf. He talked about Solo and Flip, even had a few nuggets on Murray. Never Acie.

I'm sure Woody sits him in practice as well. :sad:

[frosgrim]

no "give it up" "play hard" "balls to the walls"

I don't thin Acie is coming with the intensity during practices. I'd be interested to see what Sekou says about this. I've never seen him talk about Acie having a really good practice session. He raved about Horf. He talked about Solo and Flip, even had a few nuggets on Murray. Never Acie.

There was a SS article over the summer about how hard Acie worked on his game in the Hawk's practice facility. Acie was working with an asst coach on his game. Acie then went to the RMR and had a good summer league.

The fact of the matter is that Woodson has given up on developing. If the Hawks had a more vet big man than Horf he'd be getting PT over Horf or Smith.

[Cwell]

Joe and Bibby trust him. Plain and simple. Joe loves the guy as evidenced by his Pre-season statements. When Bibby plays with Flip he actually defers on many trips down the floor. I don't see Acie getting that respect. And you can't say its an age thing because Al gets that respect. The only thing I can think is that Acie doesn't give it up in practice to earn that respect. I've seen many of the Hawks say how much Flip and Horf give it up in practice sessions. Never heard that about Acie.

yeah and in pre-season when Joe kicked it to the corner who was it to knock down the big 3? oh yeah it was Acie. He proved in pre-season he could play. This is all on woodson.

[coachx]

To be fair to Flip, he did start the season on an offensive tear and earned Woody's trust.

However, Flip seems to have 10 feet of rope before he gets yanked. Mean while Law plays on egg shells b/c he know Woody will yank him after the slightest mistake.

I just believe if Woody treated them both equally, Law's game would emerge as the true backup PG rather then forcing a SG like Flip to play PG for stretches of every game. It would also help Flip be more consistent and efficient where he can play off the ball as scorer with he and Law in the game together. (Law got Flip some open looks early in the Boston game). Again, Law only had 5 assist in 7 minutes vs. the World Champs ! Would love to see what he would do with the confidence 20 minutes per night would give him.

Edited December 22, 2008 by coachx

[Admin]

I'm sure Woody sits him in practice as well. :sad:

That was pretty damn funny, sad, but funny. The Acie issue is easily my biggest complaint about Woodson. Moreso than his rotations in general and even our offensive "strategy". I'd really love to know why Acie cannot get PT.

[mrhonline]

I'm not terribly worried about this because I don't:

1. See Law as a starting PG on a good team in the NBA

2. See Law as the proper backup PG to Bibby (I expect Bibby to be re-signed)

I think the Hawks would be better off with a defensive and/or pass-first PG to come off the bench (i.e. to change the pace).

That said, if Law is to be traded, he's going to need some minutes to up his trade value.

Edited December 22, 2008 by mrhonline

[Chris18]

To be fair to Flip, he did start the season on an offensive tear and earned Woody's trust.

However, Flip seems to have 10 feet of rope before he gets yanked. Mean while Law plays on egg shells b/c he know Woody will yank him after the slightest mistake.

I just believe if Woody treated them both equally, Law's game would emerge as the true backup PG rather then forcing a SG like Flip to play PG for stretches of every game. It would also help Flip be more consistent and efficient where he can play off the ball as scorer with he and Law in the game together. (Law got Flip some open looks early in the Boston game). Again, Law only had 5 assist in 7 minutes vs. the World Champs ! Would love to see what he would do with the confidence 20 minutes per night would give him.

Acie didn't play against the Celtics.

[HawkItus]

I'd really like to know what he's doing now in practice though? He had some good showings in limited time, but something must be up. You can't say Woody won't play young guys, because Marvin is a young guy, Smith is a young guy, Chills was a young guy, Horf is a young guy.

[coachx]

Acie didn't play against the Celtics.

Your right...I'm wrong.

I meant the Warriors game.

[Cwell]

I'd really like to know what he's doing now in practice though? He had some good showings in limited time, but something must be up. You can't say Woody won't play young guys, because Marvin is a young guy, Smith is a young guy, Chills was a young guy, Horf is a young guy.

none of those guys run the offense and have the ball in their hands though. Woody was saying for years that he thought we needed a vet PG. He's prolly a huge reason we passed on all those PG's in the draft and not just Knight. He was prolly mad when Knight picked him and is determined to show him that he was right that we needed a vet PG. Therefore he isn't giving him a chance to show he can lead the team.

[DrReality]

I am really getting sick of Flip's patented "drive to the basket, go up for the layup, realize it's going to be blocked but has no one to pass to so the ball just falls to the ground" move.

You have such a way with words. Agree totally.

[Admin]

none of those guys run the offense and have the ball in their hands though. Woody was saying for years that he thought we needed a vet PG. He's prolly a huge reason we passed on all those PG's in the draft and not just Knight. He was prolly mad when Knight picked him and is determined to show him that he was right that we needed a vet PG. Therefore he isn't giving him a chance to show he can lead the team.

Acie shouldn't be leading this team. He should be the backup PG and should be running the 2nd unit, but there's no way in hell he should be playing ahead of Bibby. I'm not saying that is what you're referring to, just making a general statement.

[Cwell]

Acie shouldn't be leading this team. He should be the backup PG and should be running the 2nd unit, but there's no way in hell he should be playing ahead of Bibby. I'm not saying that is what you're referring to, just making a general statement.

the PG is leading the team no matter who is out there. Even the way u put it Woodson isn't given him a chance to do that.

[Admin]

the PG is leading the team no matter who is out there. Even the way u put it Woodson isn't given him a chance to do that.

I know that Woodson isn't giving him a chance and I don't know why. It's my single biggest complaint about Woodson right now.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Bibby should start ahead of Acie.

[Cwell]

I know that Woodson isn't giving him a chance and I don't know why. It's my single biggest complaint about Woodson right now.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Bibby should start ahead of Acie.

That point doesn't need to be made. Nobody at all is saying start Acie over Bibby. I believe if he did start and played 30 minutes a game he could replace Bibby pretty well and surprise people. but i'm not saying do it. All I want is for him to get the chance to play and actually be a part of the team. Woody acts like he doesn't want to play him but he only does because he has too. If it was all on him he'd play Bibby all game. When Acie plays, Woody is prolly just thinking about when is Bibby coming back in, instead of will Acie be a game changer.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Cwell