I respect Arod...

[crimedog]

It doesn't make me think he's less of a cheater, but it does make me think he's less of a moron. Bonds is going to jail, no one wants to associate with Clemens, to a lot of the fans of the sport, A-Rod is going to have another chance to prove himself because he was forthright with them. His legacy might not be as tightly intertwined with roids as is Bonds.

[Diesel]

To the original point of the thread, I will give A-Rod credit for admitting that he took them. I think that he felt at the time that his reasons for doing so were legitimate and if we ever find out how wide spread the use of steroids were back then I don't think he'd look like such a bad guy ... but the fact is that there weren't any good excuses for him to take them, unlike the excuse that Andy Pettite used which can be understood.

He loses my respect when: he took steroids, he publicly denied taking steroids

He gains some of my respect back when: he at least did the right thing and admitted taking them rather than lying about it like Bonds and Clemens and the rest of his accused brethren.

But all in all I'll never look at him the same way, much the same way that I feel about Giambi and Clemens. I didn't lose respect for Pettite because I understand why he did it and it was a short term thing to heal from an injury, something that I see real medical use for things like steroids and HGH, even if it wasn't allowed by MLB.

The one question I'll ask here is this, has anyone here ever done something illegal or unethical and denied doing it until they were caught and then confessed? As a society we love to vilify celebrities and athletes (the same way we worship them) even though we're often guilty of the same types of things, even if it's simply to a lesser extent.

Dude, I just watched segments of the Arod interview. I notice that he didn't give up his source. I think he claimed it came from GNC?

You guys giving Arod credit need to look critically at what he's saying now. I think he's still got some lies he's telling. I actually believe Conseco over him when it comes to what Conseco said..... that there was a very prominent Steroid dealer that Conseco introduced to Arod and they have been in business in Miami.

Better yet:

Canseco wrote that Rodriguez didn't explicitly say, "I want to buy steroids," but instead asked where one would go to purchase them.

"If you want, I can introduce you to some guys," Canseco said he told Rodriguez. "In fact, I know a guy with plenty of access, and he also happens to be a very good trainer."

"'That would be good,'" A-Rod said, according to an excerpt from "Vindicated." "'I'd like to meet this guy.'"

Canseco said he called A-Rod the next day to tell him he had made arrangements for him to meet the trainer.

"When they showed up, I made the introductions: 'A-Rod, this is your trainer (and supplier). Max, this is your client, A-Rod,'" Canseco wrote in his book.

"I may not have seen him do the deed, but I set the whole thing up for him, just like he wanted. I saw the changes in his body in a short time. Hell, if you ask me, I did everything but inject the guy myself," Canseco wrote.

[coachx]

His apology means very little.

Just 3 months Katie Couric asked the steroid question and he lied.

One he is caught red handed he apologizes. Ya, one your caught you so honest and noble to admit wrong. Whatever ?

[TheTrueSiete]

Arod is now in the same category as MV... He lied directly to the camera multiple times... Then, once caught, offers a lame apology... He should be shunned... End of story...

7

[Admin]

Oh yes let's champion the players that continue to lie after they are caught, rather than give some credit to the ones who at least admit that they messed up. That's such a great example to the youth of this country!

And for those of you that think him being honest now is so easy and means so little, how difficult would it be for him to deny those allegations considering that they can never (as far as I understand) be used as evidence against him? He could have simply said no that's not true and we'd all be left to debate whether he did them or not.

[Admin]

Arod is now in the same category as MV... He lied directly to the camera multiple times... Then, once caught, offers a lame apology... He should be shunned... End of story...

7

The same category as Vick? Are you kidding me? You know one time when I was a kid I lied about about stealing a quarter from my dad and I gave him a lame apology and excuses, does that put me in the same category as Vick?

I can understand not respecting the guy for lying but to compare him to Vick is ridiculous.

[CBAreject]

LOL Diesel...didn't bother to read your worthless, bombastic reply. Once I see bold text, I figure you're way too passionate about insisting you're not wrong for me to waste my time on it. Look, even your chief nut-licker Dolfan chimes in on your idiocy (on the moreover business). Even AHF, who tries to avoid arguments in general, couldn't resist exposing your horrific Hank Aaron analogy. Your 3rd-grade-level ability to write persuasively and construct convincing arguments has always been laughable. You can only convince weak-minded people through volume posting. The rest of us just chuckle at the comedy of errors. I can come on here drunk at 3 in the morning, immediately see how daft you are, and just carve you to bits. You, even with the sharpest of your own faculties, can only flail helplessly trying to preserve your dignity.

[Admin]

LOL Diesel...didn't bother to read your worthless, bombastic reply. Once I see bold text, I figure you're way too passionate about insisting you're not wrong for me to waste my time on it. Look, even your chief nut-licker Dolfan chimes in on your idiocy (on the moreover business). Even AHF, who tries to avoid arguments in general, couldn't resist exposing your horrific Hank Aaron analogy. Your 3rd-grade-level ability to write persuasively and construct convincing arguments has always been laughable. You can only convince weak-minded people through volume posting. The rest of us just chuckle at the comedy of errors. I can come on here drunk at 3 in the morning, immediately see how daft you are, and just carve you to bits. You, even with the sharpest of your own faculties, can only flail helplessly trying to preserve your dignity.

For one you are out of line for the comment in bold that you made. In case you haven't read you should check the homecourt forum about the Hawksquawk warning system.

Aside from it being out of line it may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard someone call me.

[CBAreject]

For one you are out of line for the comment in bold that you made. In case you haven't read you should check the homecourt forum about the Hawksquawk warning system.

Aside from it being out of line it may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard someone call me.

I accept the well-deserved warning and retract the statement. You can clearly see why I made it though ("love ya man"). In that light, as "out of line" or crude as it may have been, it was hardly ridiculous. I mean, if you're going to mock the guy knowing full well what you're mocking is his very ability to construct a coherent post, why bail out of it at the last second with a "well, luv ya man"? Why do you care if he gets his feelings hurt by your insult? It only makes sense that you're either a personal friend or a loyal fan and follower, hence my "out of line" comment.

[Admin]

I accept the well-deserved warning and retract the statement. You can clearly see why I made it though ("love ya man"). In that light, as "out of line" or crude as it may have been, it was hardly ridiculous. I mean, if you're going to mock the guy knowing full well what you're mocking is his very ability to construct a coherent post, why bail out of it at the last second with a "well, luv ya man"? Why do you care if he gets his feelings hurt by your insult? It only makes sense that you're either a personal friend or a loyal fan and follower, hence my "out of line" comment.

I forgot that I had written that in there, so I can understand where you are coming from but it was still out of line. As far as it making sense, it does so because it was meant as a tongue in cheek remark to show Diesel that I was just joking with him.

[TheTrueSiete]

The same category as Vick? Are you kidding me? You know one time when I was a kid I lied about about stealing a quarter from my dad and I gave him a lame apology and excuses, does that put me in the same category as Vick?

I can understand not respecting the guy for lying but to compare him to Vick is ridiculous.

Maybe you didn't understand my previous statement so allow me to reiterate.... Due to the FACT that Arod lied to his fans and America when asked the first time about performance enhancing drugs, he resembles when MV lied about the accusations put up against him... Those two LIES are similar... And if you are comparing your theft of a quarter and lying about it to the lies that these two told, you're losing it... I never said that they were the same people, but to put them in the same category of LIARS is justified... Don't let your blind homerism cloud your judgment, Yankee fan!

7

[Admin]

Maybe you didn't understand my previous statement so allow me to reiterate.... Due to the FACT that Arod lied to his fans and America when asked the first time about performance enhancing drugs, he resembles when MV lied about the accusations put up against him... Those two LIES are similar... And if you are comparing your theft of a quarter and lying about it to the lies that these two told, you're losing it... I never said that they were the same people, but to put them in the same category of LIARS is justified... Don't let your blind homerism cloud your judgment, Yankee fan!

7

You're the one that said A-Rod is now in the same category as Michael Vick. And my blind homerism, really? This coming from a guy who signs every post with a 7? Considering that I don't even like A-Rod I find that pretty humorous.

[Swish]

LOL Diesel...didn't bother to read your worthless, bombastic reply. Once I see bold text, I figure you're way too passionate about insisting you're not wrong for me to waste my time on it. Look, even your chief nut-licker Dolfan chimes in on your idiocy (on the moreover business). Even AHF, who tries to avoid arguments in general, couldn't resist exposing your horrific Hank Aaron analogy. Your 3rd-grade-level ability to write persuasively and construct convincing arguments has always been laughable. You can only convince weak-minded people through volume posting. The rest of us just chuckle at the comedy of errors. I can come on here drunk at 3 in the morning, immediately see how daft you are, and just carve you to bits. You, even with the sharpest of your own faculties, can only flail helplessly trying to preserve your dignity.

Actually, I was laughing at your insistence on degrading people on a personal level instead of just arguing objectively.

[AHF]

Oh yes let's champion the players that continue to lie after they are caught, rather than give some credit to the ones who at least admit that they messed up. That's such a great example to the youth of this country!

I think this is a bit of a false dilemma. Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire, etc. should not be championed by anyone. However, I don't see anything admirable in what A-Rod did either. He wanted to avoid getting criminally prosecuted, wanted to avoid opening up his entire career to allegations of PEDs, and wanted to stop the bleeding so he made a calculated PR decision to fall on the sword here. (Frankly, it won't surprise me a bit if we later find out if has been on other PEDs since 2003.)

I view this morally as being in the same box as Bonds - just smarter from a PR perspective. A-Rod has seen the abuse and scrutiny that Bonds has lived under and wants no part of that. Smart but not anything morally commendable.

[Admin]

I think this is a bit of a false dilemma. Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire, etc. should not be championed by anyone. However, I don't see anything admirable in what A-Rod did either. He wanted to avoid getting criminally prosecuted, wanted to avoid opening up his entire career to allegations of PEDs, and wanted to stop the bleeding so he made a calculated PR decision to fall on the sword here. (Frankly, it won't surprise me a bit if we later find out if has been on other PEDs since 2003.)

I view this morally as being in the same box as Bonds - just smarter from a PR perspective. A-Rod has seen the abuse and scrutiny that Bonds has lived under and wants no part of that. Smart but not anything morally commendable.

As far as I know he wasn't facing any criminal prosecution though, right? So it's not the same as continuing to lie to try and keep up with the original story because of not wanting to perjure yourself.

A-Rod certainly shouldn't be commended, but he had no reason to admit to using steroids at this point since they couldn't have ever used those results as evidence against him and he had never testified before the grand jury (I don't believe).

[Diesel]

Actually, I was laughing at your insistence on degrading people on a personal level instead of just arguing objectively.

No the english professor is just upset that I called him a dumbass back in 2005.

Hey... reject... was that in context? You know.. Dumbass!

[Diesel]

I think this is a bit of a false dilemma. Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire, etc. should not be championed by anyone. However, I don't see anything admirable in what A-Rod did either. He wanted to avoid getting criminally prosecuted, wanted to avoid opening up his entire career to allegations of PEDs, and wanted to stop the bleeding so he made a calculated PR decision to fall on the sword here. (Frankly, it won't surprise me a bit if we later find out if has been on other PEDs since 2003.)

I view this morally as being in the same box as Bonds - just smarter from a PR perspective. A-Rod has seen the abuse and scrutiny that Bonds has lived under and wants no part of that. Smart but not anything morally commendable.

I can definitely see ARod and HGH coming together. Moreover, I think he's trying to do what he can to preserve himself a spot in cooperstown.

[AHF]

As far as I know he wasn't facing any criminal prosecution though, right? So it's not the same as continuing to lie to try and keep up with the original story because of not wanting to perjure yourself.

There is a reason that Clemens, Bonds and other who denied using steroids were the subject of federal investigations and the people who admitted it (Giambi, etc.) weren't. If I was A-Rod's attorney one of the things I would have advised him on is that a denial to the public at this stage could provoke attention from federal investigators.

A-Rod wasn't at risk of committing perjury at this point - he was at risk of getting a lot more unwanted attention which could include criminal prosecution.

[BusBoyIsBack]

He only admitted because he got caught

It's not like a guy who was on the list came forward and put his reputation on the line unnecessarily and admitted he was one of the names.

ARod got caught . The same ARod who denied using performance enhancing drugs when he was interviewed by CBS

[CBAreject]

No the english professor is just upset that I called him a dumbass back in 2005.

Hey... reject... was that in context? You know.. Dumbass!

So Swish essentially comes to your defense by saying that I have to make things personal, and what do you do? You remind him and everyone else that you were the one who first made things personal long ago. Amazing how you manage to stumble backwards into a big cow pat while flailing dung at me.

And it's as if you think "english professor" is an insult. "Ha! What a smart guy. What a professor! He knows so much and thinks so logically! What an english professor! Thank God I can't think so clearly and go to better schools and get better jobs! Phew I really dodged the genetic brain bullet that is intelligence!"