Big Ol' Trade

[dickaufan12]

Warriors get:

Nick Van Exel

Avery Johnson

Evan Eschmeyer

Popeye Jones

Mavs get:

Antawn Jamison

Jiri Welsch

Chris Mills

Danny Fortson

The trade cannot be officially approved until NBA offices open Monday, but two newspapers and ESPN report that this deal is true.

[mrhonline]

I really want to say that GS got the better end of this deal...Dallas didn't improve IMO. Jamison is NOT a PF in the West, although Fortson will help with rebounding. But still not true C in DFW.

For GS, they get rid of Jamison's monstrous 5 yr., $69M deal and Fortson's 4 yr., $24M deal. But they take back a 3 yr., $35M deal with Van Exel and a stupid 4 yr., $13M for Eschmeyer. Plus, they have now overspent for Speedy Claxton. They are obviously banking on marked improvement from Dunleavy, Jr.

GS:

Van Exel/Claxton/Johnson

Richardson/Pietrus/Sura

Dunleavy

Murphy/Fortson/Jones

Dampier/Foyle/Eschmeyer

They seem to be missing SF's. I think this officially rules out the Dampier for Person deal...could they be trying to get Battier?

[finch]

interesting trade. i like what it does for the mavs, as they finally get a solid sf, who has the ability to play the 4 against some teams, while slipping Dirky to 5. but, what are the warriors doing?

i was surprised to hear about this trade actually going throught, although i heard rumors about it, but the more i thought about it, the more i liked it. First, they rid themselves of Danny Fortson's rediculous contract. Two, they fill their need for a starting PG...i feel bad for speedy claxton. Thirdly, this allows Mike Dunlevy Jr. to get some time at the 3 spot. Overall, i think this deal works for both teams, but i'm kinda concerned with who is gonna back up stevie nash in dallas. Even though the warriors lost arenas, i like the line-up they have: Van Exel/Richardson/Dunlevey/Murphy/Dampier

van exel and richardson can ball, and troy murphy is an animal in the making (look out for a breakout year for him). this trade also allows the warriors to give some pt to their draft pick, Mickael Pietrus, who appearently can play really tough defense, which is something the warriors lacked last season. This trade doesn't get the warriors into the playoffs, but it makes the loss of gilbert arenas less significant, although it still hurts them a lot.

[HawkTodd]

Yea I just head about that trade as well.

Quite a steal for the Mavs if you ask me.

Thats crazy, last season the Warriors were one of the best young teams in the league and now they appear to be "rebuilding" once again.

I thought if anyone on that team would get traded it would be one of their shooting guards, but I guess not.

[mrhonline]

Jamison is way overrated. He's kinda like Glenn Robinson - a one-dimensional player. Definitely not worth the $$$ they gave him. Same thing is true of Fortson. Plus, if you guys remember, Van Exel was one of the league leaders in scoring before he got shipped off to Dallas.

As far as ability - Jamison > Van Exel & Fortson > Eschmeyer. But when you take their contracts into consideration, Van Exel + Eschmeyer >> Jamison + Fortson. Strange logic I know, but the luxury tax has brought a new complexity to trades. Kinda like trading a 20/7 guy for an injured has-been PG.

It's too bad the Warriors lost Arenas, but they still have plenty of young talent in Richardson, Pietrus, Dunleavy, and Murphy. They'll still be one of the contenders for the 8th playoff spot IMO.

Dallas, on the other hand, reminds me of the 80's Nuggets.

[cyman3]

why u guys sayin Jamison is overrated? Whens the last time he was at the allstar game or in the front cover of SLAM magazine? Whens the last time ESPN gave him a 30 minute special on TV? etc...

Jamison is the ULTIMATE TWEENER. if u had to have 1 tweener on ur team (despite the salary), u want Jamison! this guy has similar stats as Shareef Abdur-Rahim but is more of a SF than PF while i consider Reef more PF than SF.

stats please... Jamison and then (Reef)

PPG 22.2 (19.9)

RPG 7.0 (8.4)

APG 1.9 (3.0)

SPG .93 (1.07)

BPG .55 (.47)

FG% .470 (.478)

FT% .789 (.841)

3P% .311 (.350)

MPG 39.3 (38.1)

ever since Jamison came to the league, all eyes were on Vince. other than Jamisons contract- there should be no need to call him overrated.

i believe Averys contract is up, so that helps the Warriors. Van Exel is Arenas replacement? Not bad at all. And yes Troy Murphy is a monster. Gives u a double-double every night. Better rebounder than anyone on our team.

-----------------------------------------

PROS for WARRIORS

1)Replaces Mr. Arenas with Van Exel (improvement over Speedy)

2)Rid of Jamisons big contract

3)CAP SPACE- Van Exel has a player option next year. Johnsons 5 million is gone just like that after this year.

PROS for MAVS

1)got the best player out of the deal (Jamison)

2)got unhappy camper in GS and a superb rebounder in Fortson.

3)CAP SPACE- Mills 6 Million down the drain after this year

overall, NVE = JAMISON. Johnson = Mills (cap space). Fortson is better than both Eschmeyer and Jones. Welsch hasnt reached his potential but for now is only used to make the trade work.

either way, good trade for both teams.

Nash, Finley, Jamison, Nowitski, ????

ratliff? would they give us Finley now that they have a young guy thats capable of 40-50 ppg (jamison) startin instead of on the bench?

[Diesel]

Jamison may be a tweener, but he's not overrated. In fact, in Dallas, all of his strengths will be multiplied and all of his weaknesses will be decreased. Think about the team:

Nash/Finley/Jamison/Dirk/Bradley.

The only problem is that Dallas still needs a C. However, as a SF, Nobody needs Jamison to handle the ball. Nobody needs Jamison to Shoot 3 pters. They just need Jamison to act more like a PF. Dirk will handle everything else. Dirk can shoot from outside. Dirk can help with rebounding.

ON the other hand, GS gets NVE who may decide to retire. GS got rid of Big Contracts and this might be what the deal was about. If you look at it....

If Van Exel retires.

Next year, there's no Sura.

GS becomes a FAcy Player. They will be in need of a PG and possibly a C. They will have a strong core of:

Richardson/Dunleavy/Murphy.

The only thing left is to trade Foyle or Damp for Knight.

[mrhonline]

In reply to:

---

Jamison is the ULTIMATE TWEENER. if u had to have 1 tweener on ur team (despite the salary), u want Jamison!

---

O.K., explain to me what Jamison has accomplished that Reef hasn't? And since when is it a good thing to be a tweener. In the WC, he's too slow to be a SF, too small to be a PF.

What does Dallas need? A PF and a C. This doesn't help them in the low post except for rebounding. But they don't need rebounding alone. They need someone to guard Shaq, Duncan, Miller, Webber, Garnett, etc. This trade didn't accomplish that.

Golden State obviously wants to build around their young players at SG, SF, and PF. They've now cleared room for those players' development. A pretty courageous move, IMO.

[capstone21]

Golden state took a big step back this off season in my opinion.

They went from an up and coming team to one of the worst in the league. They lost their two future stars in Areans and Jamision for a back up point guard (Claxton) and starter who is starting to get up there in age (33) NVE.

They have had the worst off season even worse then us.

Dallas has improved themselves dramatically. They really solidify their starting lineup. Like Diesel said, Jamison can play the PF on offence and defend SF becuase he will be playing along side Dirk. Jamison is a potential star and he is hungrey. The only question is does Dallas have to many offensive stars and no defence? It is defence that wins games after all.

Fortson who can be a great rebounder will provide some depth at the PF position too.

I always liked Chris Mills, he when not injured he can contribute and maybe a steal for Dallas, if not he is in the last year of his contract so next season he comes off the books.

A lot of the Western Teams have really improved themselves this season....Minn no question has become a contender with Kandi, Spree and Cassell added as starters not to mention their bench got a lot stronger with Hudson moving back there and the signing of Madson.

Lakers bringing in Payton and Malone will be interesting if they learn to share the ball and Kobe plays next season.

San Antonio I think is even better with Rasha playing center (he is very underrated and is an adequate replacement for Robinson), Getting Hedo, Ron Mercer and Carter will also boster the roster.

Sacremento got Peeler and all star center Miller from Indiana. I am unsure if they improved yet because they have lost a lot depth as well (JJ, Hedo, Pollard, Clark).

Still the west has gotten stronger while the East pretty much stayed the same. If Mourning can get back to old form, NJ is probably the only team right now that can compete out there.

[Guest]

Jamison may be a tweener, but he's not overrated. In fact, in Dallas, all of his strengths will be multiplied and all of his weaknesses will be decreased. Think about the team: "

Jamison should fit well because the fact that he isn't a

first option guy will not matter..His scoring will take a

dip and he'll have a Juwan Howard type of career, but

his 20PPG scoring days are over...Atleast for now.

[cyman3]

"O.K., explain to me what Jamison has accomplished that Reef hasn't?"

- i never said Jamison is better than Reef. i said they are alike in the sense that both are scorers and capable of scorin 40-50 on any given night. The only difference is that Reef is more of a PF and Jamison is more of a SF.

As far as reboundin, doesnt Dirk average 10 rpg? he got REBOUNDS covered! Jamison just needs to go out and fill in that SF spot. On offense, he can take the pressure off of Dirk/Nash/Finley. they dont really need too much from him on offense but with offense not focused on Jamison, it could give him more room to make smart plays on offense (take open shots, more assists, etc). he'll fit right in.

Yes they could have traded for a center (makes more sense) but Jamison isint exactly a SCRUB u know. Hes like Reef. Maybe they couldnt do any better for VAN EXEL- talent wise?

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

In the WC, he's too slow to be a SF, too small to be a PF.

---

Well, Last year there was:

Pippen?

Fox?

Marion?

Lewis?

Harpring?

Szerbiac?

Rice?

Himself?

Bowen?

Peja?

The bottom line. You do have Lewis and Marion as maybe speedsters... But after that, I would argue that Jamison may have a step on the rest of em. I wouldn't consider him too slow?

[jezmund]

Although I believe Jamison is the best player in the deal, he has a huge contract at a position that the Warriors can fill. I like Claxton and believe he has starting potential but NVE can still put up 20 ppg 7 apg and has a much shorter contract than Jamison. Someone mentioned how GS just took a step backwards in their rebuilding, I don't agree with that statement. Between Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy, Pietrus and Claxton, they have plenty of young players to build around. They need proven veterans. They couldn't resign Arenas because they didn't have any cap space, this trade is going to open up a lot in the next 2-3 years allowing them to resign their current young players.

NVE/JRich/Dunleay/Murphy/Dampier.... Claxton/Pietrus/Sura/Foyle off the bench is pretty solid.

[beav]

"Between Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy, Pietrus and Claxton, they have plenty of young players to build around."

Yes but two have proven absolutely zip (dunleavy and pietrus so far in summer leagues), one has never been a consistent starter after multiple years in the league (claxton), and one was on the trading block much of last year (richardson).

I think that GS was just so desperate to get rid of Fortson's contract (and to a lesser extent Jamison's) that they took whatever they could find. Their GM is horrible, so I look at any move they make very skeptically. If Musselman didn't like richardson's defense (or lack thereof) then Van Exel is going to drive him nuts.

[KB21]

They are a team that seems to take a step forward then two steps backwards.

I'm sure they are ecstatic to get rid of Jamison's contract though. He simply isn't worth that kind of money. One of EMuss's first moves as their head coach was to move Jamison from PF to SF because, in Muss's words, Jamison can't defend at the four. He doesn't defend period.

[mrhonline]

In reply to:

---

Yes but two have proven absolutely zip (dunleavy and pietrus so far in summer leagues), one has never been a consistent starter after multiple years in the league (claxton), and one was on the trading block much of last year (richardson).

---

And what exactly has Jamison EVER proven? The dynamics of playing in the WC are totally different than the EC. How many playoff appearances does Jamison have? Even with Arenas, how many playoff series would they have won over the next 2-3 years?

Answer: 0

They are building for 2-3 years down the road, after Sac, Dallas, LA, etc. have peaked. Jamison doesn't pass, doesn't defend, and doesn't make his teammates better. He's grossly overpaid PER SEASON, and overpaid over the LENGTH of the contract. Same with Fortson.

These arguments sound oddly familiar to the ones vs. trading Robinson. And wasn't it Diesel who was always pimping a trade for NVE? Why won't GS, who has more young talent and a better coach, be even more successful than the Hawks would have been had they made a similar trade?

Short-term: Dallas wins, although not as resoundly as some of you guys assert. And only b/c Cuban doesn't mind to pay the luxury tax.

Long-term: GS wins, significantly.

BTW, Claxton is definitely capable of being a starter in the league, if healthy. His health, not his talent, has been the question mark. Murphy is an up-and-comer, Dunleavy and Pietrus are still young but very talented. Richardson is a bust IMO, but still cheap enough to wait on. GS will have some $ to pursue a FA next year if some of the young players don't turn out well. Plus, they can always trade NVE to NY for Kurt Thomas/filler if he doesn't work out. Dallas, on the other hand, is stuck with yet another bloated contract.

[beav]

Jamison has proven that he is a bigtime scorer and a good rebounder. He has consistently proven that for the last few years. Remember him going Bernard King with those back to back 50+ point games.

He is also a model citizen and bright as [censored] player. He has proven that he is a 20 point 8 board player for four straight years.

"Claxton is definitely capable of being a starter in the league, if healthy. His health, not his talent, has been the question mark. "

Well it still hasn't happened has it? Sam Bowie if healthy would have been a great player. It sure would have been nice if Nazr could stay healthy too. The end result has been the same. Whether it is injury as you opined or talent or both the end result is the same. He is unproven.

"Murphy is an up-and-comer"

If you re-read my post you see that I purposely omitted Murphy. That is because he is a good player indeed.

"Dunleavy and Pietrus are still young but very talented."

Yet again.... unproven.

"Richardson is a bust IMO, but still cheap enough to wait on."

Actually I agree with you completely that he is worth waiting on, but this goes hand in hand with my assertion of the idiocy of their GM. In any event he is stilll..... unproven.

"GS will have some $ to pursue a FA next year if some of the young players don't turn out well."

Yep, and if they suck again... why would anyone want to go there? Ever lived in California?

"Plus, they can always trade NVE to NY for Kurt Thomas/filler if he doesn't work out. Dallas, on the other hand, is stuck with yet another bloated contract."

One thing that you might notice about Dallas and formerly Portland for teams with bloated contracts they still manage to add good players since they don't care about the salary cap.

Do, I think that it is a great trade for Dallas? Hardly. They needed a center more. I just think that it was a worse move for Golden State.

[capstone21]

He does not need to defend the 4 in Dallas. He can defend the 3 but play the 4 on offence since Dirks game is more tuned to a 3 on offence. It is a good setup for this team.

[mrhonline]

No, I didn't like GS. But a lot of NBA'ers do...That's another story...

You guys are right, Jamison won't have to defend the 4, Dirk will. And that's a joke. His backup? The league's top rebounder, but one of its worst defenders.

The problem with this trade is that NVE could have landed a better player. Now the Mavs have only one more tradeable player - Michael Finley. IMO, Finley is a big part of their success.

Cuban is looking at over $100M in salaries over the next 5-6 years or so. Meaning that if this team isn't successful, he's screwed. A big risk to take for a player like Jamison.

You guys should read what GS fans think of Jamison - I'm being kind. In Dallas, he'll be fine. But, IMO, they'll still not better than SA or LA, so what was the point?

[cyman3]

Van Exels career was slowly goin downhill til he landed with the Kings. all the GMs in the NBA knew they could have NVE in return for a good center but maybe nobody was offerin them a center?

so what do they do next??? go with the best talent at SF (next weakness after center).

While Jamisons contract is HIGH, maybe Mark Cuban is willin to pay extra bucks hopin it pays dividends at the end...

ignoring price here, maybe thats the best they could have done for NVE and other teams werent offferin betta deals? who knows..