Joe's mythical "triple team"

[Red Hawk #21]

I agree with the original poster. Also, Joe needs to learn how to dunk.

Why is that Joe can only dunk like twice a season?

[Traceman]

I constantly read on this board about all of the double and triple teams that Joe gets. Well, I hardly ever see the man draw even a double team. This is the main justification for all of Joe's faults. I think it is a figment of imagination. I never see teams focused on Joe like that. You don't get to pound for 10 seconds every possession if you are doubled. Everyone gets picked up by two people in certain spots. Especially when you pound for forever and draw the entire collective focus of the defense before you drive for a floater. Joe isn't "double teamed" though. And I've never seen him "triple teamed" as I've read here often. If anyone has video proof, please post it. I don't see it. It's just basketball rhetoric, imo.

Tomorrow night is a big test. We have virtually the same records, but Utah is light years ahead of the Hawks as a consistently functioning team unit. They also just lost Larry Miller and I'm sure they will be digging deep emotionally for some time.

Was Joe doubled last night? Sure looked like it to me. :stirthepot:

[TroyMcClure]

Was Joe doubled last night? Sure looked like it to me. :stirthepot:

Yeah, that's what a double looks like. He didn't respond though, did he? He was doubled because Smoove and Bibby were out. What is your point? Mine was that his being doubled was not a nightly thing, and it isn't.

[TroyMcClure]

Why is that Joe can only dunk like twice a season?

Take another look at how he broke his face in Phoenix. He was going up hard to dunk. Call it what you will, but he clearly doesn't want that to ever happen again.

[Traceman]

Yeah, that's what a double looks like. He didn't respond though, did he? He was doubled because Smoove and Bibby were out. What is your point? Mine was that his being doubled was not a nightly thing, and it isn't.

I thought he responded quite well. He did a good job in the 4th of reading where the double was coming from and knocking down some RIDICULOUS shots in crunch time. He nearly pulled it out at the end.

I don't think JJ gets the nightly HARD double that he used to get last season but he does get a soft double most of the time. He does still get the hard double situationally but Bibby knocking down all those 3's this year has forced teams to play JJ more honestly.

Still, there is no doubt in my mind that JJ is not as quick as he was in past years due to his current size/weight and good defenders can now handle him a little easier one on one. I think dropping 10-15 would help him tremendously if he is going to stay at SG (and I think he should).

[Iman]

With the offensive improvement in Marvin and Al, and with Bibby available, Joe needs to pass the ball much more. I'm not saying he has to be a playmaker, just less of a black hole. His shot will come back but for us to advance a round or two in the playoffs we cant be so reliant on how Joe plays. It'll probably take a coaching change for anything to substantially change.

As far as Joe dunking, he's a great basketball player but he's just not a great athlete. He may have slowed a little this year due to weight but as long as he's been a Hawk, Joe obviously barely can dunk, just like Zaza.

[exodus]

With the offensive improvement in Marvin and Al, and with Bibby available, Joe needs to pass the ball much more. I'm not saying he has to be a playmaker, just less of a black hole. His shot will come back but for us to advance a round or two in the playoffs we cant be so reliant on how Joe plays. It'll probably take a coaching change for anything to substantially change.

As far as Joe dunking, he's a great basketball player but he's just not a great athlete. He may have slowed a little this year due to weight but as long as he's been a Hawk, Joe obviously barely can dunk, just like Zaza.

JJ is my man but there is no question he is holding the ball too long. Dribbling around for 10 seconds while everyone else stands around watching isn't my idea of effective offense.

[crimedog]

Last night was an example of a team throwing a lot of doubles at JJ before he tried to penetrate or post up. It definitely doesn't happen every game though.

[Diesel]

Last night was an example of a team throwing a lot of doubles at JJ before he tried to penetrate or post up. It definitely doesn't happen every game though.

NY's game plan was to keep Joe out of the lane. When Joe got Wilson fouled up early, and Hughes was collecting fouls, NY abandoned it and Joe was able to hurt them with the floater in the lane.

The NY Broadcast did mention how Joe holding of the ball slows our offense... I concur, but at the same time, Woody has to draw up plays. For a run and gun team, NY looked very sharp in their half court game. They know how to spread the floor and iso Al. They know how to play Screen and roll with Duhon and Lee. They know how to create mismatches with backdoor picks and go to the mismatch. They just outwitted us all night.

[crimedog]

NY's game plan was to keep Joe out of the lane. When Joe got Wilson fouled up early, and Hughes was collecting fouls, NY abandoned it and Joe was able to hurt them with the floater in the lane.

The NY Broadcast did mention how Joe holding of the ball slows our offense... I concur, but at the same time, Woody has to draw up plays. For a run and gun team, NY looked very sharp in their half court game. They know how to spread the floor and iso Al. They know how to play Screen and roll with Duhon and Lee. They know how to create mismatches with backdoor picks and go to the mismatch. They just outwitted us all night.

Mike D'Antoni is a fantastic coach. Phoenix was a fantastic half-court offense too, they have great ball-movement and spacing and can run the hell out of the the pick and roll.

I actually thought that Al and Bibby ran the pick and roll pretty well last night. Al was finishing a lot better than usual and being a lot more aggressive than usual. I'd like to see him keep that up. Other than those few plays, we didn't really run anything at all other than isolations.