Marvin or Childress

[pound4pound]

With Marvin coming up on RFA, you have to think he is going to get north of $8 million from at least some team in the NBA. Even if he isn't offered - most would agree that is around what he is going to get.

My point is this - for that type of coin, would you rather have Childress or Marvin. I say this as a Marv supporter - but I don't see the same fire and BBIQ out of him that Josh has. Marvin is starting to develop a nice stroke, good perimeter d, and rebounds well for a 3. But did the offense really drop off when Mo came in the game?

We learned from the playoffs that this team needs to get smarter, hungrier, and taller. Bringing back Josh for Marv's money will at least get us smarter and hungrier. That little awkward shot doesn't seam as awkward to me now for some reason.

[mrhonline]

If the only choice is between the two players, it's an easy call in Marvin's favor. Childress did himself no favors in Europe, while Marvin's game improved.

The better question is would you rather keep Marvin on a long-term deal or take what's offered in a S&T.

[buckeye242424]

If the only choice is between the two players, it's an easy call in Marvin's favor. Childress did himself no favors in Europe, while Marvin's game improved.

The better question is would you rather keep Marvin on a long-term deal or take what's offered in a S&T.

His wallet would disagree.

[coachx]

The better question is would you rather keep Marvin on a long-term deal or take what's offered in a S&T.

That is the better question. It all depends on whats offered.

Between Marvin and Chillz...........I would take Marvin any day for obvious reasons.

Edited May 13, 2009 by coachx

[mrhonline]

His wallet would disagree.

So true, so true.

[pound4pound]

The truth is - we don't know how well Chillz improved his game. If we keep Marvin, then I am cool with that. I think we can grow to be a deadly big man shooter like those forwards down in Orlando. The only problem is this team needs to improve in the same areas Marvin does. HEART and Hunger....

[Vol4ever]

With Marvin coming up on RFA, you have to think he is going to get north of $8 million from at least some team in the NBA. Even if he isn't offered - most would agree that is around what he is going to get.

My point is this - for that type of coin, would you rather have Childress or Marvin. I say this as a Marv supporter - but I don't see the same fire and BBIQ out of him that Josh has. Marvin is starting to develop a nice stroke, good perimeter d, and rebounds well for a 3. But did the offense really drop off when Mo came in the game?

We learned from the playoffs that this team needs to get smarter, hungrier, and taller. Bringing back Josh for Marv's money will at least get us smarter and hungrier. That little awkward shot doesn't seam as awkward to me now for some reason.

Your kidding right????? Childress over Marvin.....................whew put the crack pipe down.

[Diesel]

With Marvin coming up on RFA, you have to think he is going to get north of $8 million from at least some team in the NBA. Even if he isn't offered - most would agree that is around what he is going to get.

My point is this - for that type of coin, would you rather have Childress or Marvin. I say this as a Marv supporter - but I don't see the same fire and BBIQ out of him that Josh has. Marvin is starting to develop a nice stroke, good perimeter d, and rebounds well for a 3. But did the offense really drop off when Mo came in the game?

We learned from the playoffs that this team needs to get smarter, hungrier, and taller. Bringing back Josh for Marv's money will at least get us smarter and hungrier. That little awkward shot doesn't seam as awkward to me now for some reason.

I would bring Josh back for 6.5 - 7.0. That's more than what we offered him. Marvin is not worth 8. The other thing is that we needed efficient scoring in the playoffs. Remember Chillz? He could move without the ball and score. He could have complimented Joe and Flip.

Use the savings to help get a big.

[Diesel]

Between Marvin and Chillz...........I would take Marvin any day for obvious reasons.

Let me guess....

because we drafted him?

Think about it this way. If Marvin were just a free agent (drafted and played with the nets) and you knew his price was 8 million. Would you find 8 million to give him? You guys have to get over this... we drafted him so he's gold crap. BK made mistakes. Marvin is probably his biggest. Marvin is not a game changer. He doesn't do half the stuff yall says he does. He's not a great on ball defender. He's not fast. He's not a good finisher. He's not a great rebounder. And he's not a good three point shooter.

3pt percentage (3pa)

Nov. 47% (38)

Dec. 26% (34)

Jan. 38% (36)

Feb 27% (29)

This is streaky Marvin.

I'm tired of hearing excuse after excuse about why he can't produce like he's supposed. I know why. He's a simple role player with no ambition to be much more than that.

[mrhonline]

3pt percentage (3pa)

Nov. 47% (38)

Dec. 26% (34)

Jan. 38% (36)

Feb 27% (29)

This is streaky Marvin.

And yet, "streaky Marvin" managed to dramatically outperform Josh Childress' amazing 16% 3 pt shooting in the Euroleague in each of those months. Heck, even Josh Smith is a better perimeter shooter than Childress.

To argue that Marvin isn't that good is mildly debatable. To argue that he's worse than Childress is laughable.

[coachx]

Let me guess....

because we drafted him?

Think about it this way. If Marvin were just a free agent (drafted and played with the nets) and you knew his price was 8 million. Would you find 8 million to give him? You guys have to get over this... we drafted him so he's gold crap. BK made mistakes. Marvin is probably his biggest. Marvin is not a game changer. He doesn't do half the stuff yall says he does. He's not a great on ball defender. He's not fast. He's not a good finisher. He's not a great rebounder. And he's not a good three point shooter.

3pt percentage (3pa)

Nov. 47% (38)

Dec. 26% (34)

Jan. 38% (36)

Feb 27% (29)

This is streaky Marvin.

Actually those shooting percentage were pretty consistent except for 1 month out of 4. I bet most players in the NBA would have the same thing with a 1 month shooting slump. He was hurt on March 7 but from March 1-7 his 3 point shooting was right back at 33%.

I never said he was worth $8 mill in this thread either. I think $6.5 - $7 is about right though (the same amount you would pay Chillz).

It goes deeper then the #'s.

1. Chillz can only shoot a shot if he is wide open due to his low release point

2. Marvin can shoot with a guy in his face b/c he is longer then Chillz and has a higher release point.

3. Marvin can create his own shot when the offense bogs down. Chillz cannot

4. Marvin and Smoove can swtich defensive assignments without giving up a mismatch. Chillz cannot guard the PF position like Marvin can.

5. Marvin can guard the SFs in our division better then Chillz (Lebron, Granger, Beasley, Lewsi, Turkelough, Pierce, Jefferson, Butler, etc.)

6. Marvin will make the smaller post player guard JJ where JJ has a post up advantage. With Chillz in, the smaller defender can guard Chillz and the bigger defender can guard JJ and take away the post up play. I am thinking of the Cavs specifically here. We need to get West on JJ for a matchup advantage and have Lebron guard Marvin. With Chillz on the team and no Marvin.............James will be matched up against JJ most of the time.

7. Actually Marvin is a good rebounder for the SF position (not great but good)

8. Marvin is faster and quicker then Chillz both on the court and in NBA draft camp time trials

9. Chillz is only a wing. Marvin can play as a wing and as a PF. That in itself sways the value pendlumn Marvin's way.

Edited May 13, 2009 by coachx

[Diesel]

And yet, "streaky Marvin" managed to dramatically outperform Josh Childress' amazing 16% 3 pt shooting in the Euroleague in each of those months. Heck, even Josh Smith is a better perimeter shooter than Childress.

To argue that Marvin isn't that good is mildly debatable. To argue that he's worse than Childress is laughable.

I'm saying that Childress would do more for us than Marvin.

Marvin is a nonimpact player. Period.

You can't begin to show an impact. You drag out hollow stats but when you watch the games, Marvin is sleep when the game is on the line. He's a waste of money and somebody wants to pay him 8 million per? What sense does that make? Why?

[Diesel]

Actually those shooting percentage were pretty consistent except for 1 month out of 4. I bet most players in the NBA would have the same thing with a 1 month shooting slump. He was hurt on March 7 but from March 1-7 his 3 point shooting was right back at 33%.

I never said he was worth $8 mill in this thread either. I think $6.5 - $7 is about right though (the same amount you would pay Chillz).

It goes deeper then the #'s.

1. Chillz can only shoot a shot if he is wide open due to his low release point

2. Marvin can shoot with a guy in his face b/c he is longer then Chillz and has a higher release point.

3. Marvin can create his own shot when the offense bogs down. Chillz cannot

4. Marvin and Smoove can swtich defensive assignments without giving up a mismatch. Chillz cannot guard the PF position like Marvin can.

5. Marvin can guard the SFs in our division better then Chillz (Lebron, Granger, Beasley, Lewsi, Turkelough, Pierce, Jefferson, Butler, etc.)

6. Marvin will make the smaller post player guard JJ where JJ has a post up advantage. With Chillz in, the smaller defender can guard Chillz and the bigger defender can guard JJ and take away the post up play. I am thinking of the Cavs specifically here. We need to get West on JJ for a matchup advantage and have Lebron guard Marvin. With Chillz on the team and no Marvin.............James will be matched up against JJ most of the time.

7. Actually Marvin is a good rebounder for the SF position (not great but good)

8. Marvin is faster and quicker then Chillz both on the court and in NBA draft camp time trials

9. Chillz is only a wing. Marvin can play as a wing and as a PF. That in itself sways the value pendlumn Marvin's way.

Chillz = Better ball handler.

Chillz = more agressive.

Chillz = Better BBIQ.

Chillz = Better rebounder.

Chillz = More efficient scorer.

Chillz = better passer.

Chillz can play Point forward.

Chillz = cheaper.

Marvin's defense is questionable. Based on the talk of marvin lovers who can't come up with anything else to say about Marvin. He's never kept a scorer in check. He doesn't get steals, he doesn't get blocks... Just a lot of subjection.

Marvin's offense = stand around and wait on somebody to throw me the ball when I'm wide open.

Bottom line is that we've wasted much time, money, players, and space trying to wait for Marvin to evolve into something good. We've talked ourselves up about how good Marvin is. The problem is that we've fed ourselves lies. Marvin doesn't show up. Not one bit. Mo freakin Evans had as much contribution to our winning than Marvin. Sheez, we probably won more with Mo starting (prorated). I've told you over and over again, Sf is the easiest position to learn. However, Marvin has had 4 years of excuses for why he hasn't done it yet. 4 years of why he can't make an impact... and now you want to give hima reup?? You know... there has been a time when I may have bought a brand of orange juice that I didn't particularly love, but I could drink. When that bottle was gone, do you think I went to the store to by more? Do you think I went around telling people... Oh, that's a good brand of Orange juice? Do you think I spent one iota of my time trying to figure out if it would be better if I had ______.? NO.. I just finished the bottle, went to the store and got a bottle of orange juice that I liked. Wonder why some Hawks fans can't treat Marvin the same way?

[Chris18]

In an ideal world i'd love to have both guys(at a discounted price), but if i had to pick one I'm going with Marvin. He's the better defender and isn't a liability when teams clog the paint.

[Dejay]

In an ideal world i'd love to have both guys(at a discounted price), but if i had to pick one I'm going with Marvin. He's the better defender and isn't a liability when teams clog the paint.

In an ideal world, I'd rather have Chris Paul and Al Jefferson but that's for another day.... :beathorse:

[coachx]

Chillz = Better ball handler.

True by a hair

Chillz = more agressive.

WRONG

Chillz last 3 season with Hawks he averaged 2.71, 3.81, and 3.61 FT attempts per game

MW last 3 season with Atlanta he averaged 4.14, 5.11, and 4.47 FT attempts per game.

Chillz = Better BBIQ.

That is debateable

Chillz = Better rebounder.

WRONG

A fair analysis would say they are equal. Marvin is the better defensive rebounder and Chillz is the better offensive rebounder.

Let look at their last 3 seasons of NBA play for real proof:

Chillz -5.2, 6.2, 4.9 (rpg went down when Horford came)

MW - 5.3, 5.7, 6.3 (rpg went up when Horford came)

Chillz = More efficient scorer.

Maybe by hair but it goes much deeper then that. Chillz cannot shoot with a defender on him due to his 3rd grade release point. Marvin can create shots on his own and shoot with a defender on him b/c he is longer and has a higher release point. I will take a guy who can creat his own shot any day.

Chillz = better passer.

Agreed

Chillz can play Point forward.

Agreed but I would rather have a SF who can give you minutes at PF then a SF who can be a "point foward"

Chillz = cheaper.

Thats is yet to be dertimined. If so maybe by $500 K per year.

Marvin's offense = stand around and wait on somebody to throw me the ball when I'm wide open.

Now your confusing the 2. Chillz is the one who relies on a wide open set shot b/c he cannot creat his own shot. If some one does not set him up for a wide open shot his only other hope is to tip in an offensive rebound or cherry pick on defense.

Marvin can attack the rim and get to the line. Marvin can create his own shot and shoot with a defender in his face much better then Chillz. That should not even be a debate.

Edited May 13, 2009 by coachx

[jhay610]

Chillz = Better ball handler.

Chillz = more agressive.

Chillz = Better BBIQ.

Chillz = Better rebounder.

Chillz = More efficient scorer.

Chillz = better passer.

Chillz can play Point forward.

Chillz = cheaper.

Paging Exodus....this thread has real potential. A throwback thread to the Marv vs Chillz daily debate.

[Plastic Man]

His wallet would disagree.

maybe not in the long run.

i take Marv over Chillz every day. Marv is still adding to his game. Chillz is solid at everything but not really good at anything.

[Diesel]

Agreed but I would rather have a SF who can give you minutes at PF then a SF who can be a "point foward"

Uhm... What kind of minutes can Marvin give you at PF? Honestly, I don't seem to ever remember him playing the position? I guess it's like saying Smoove can give us minutes as a point guard? The problem is that Marvin is not a low post PF. He doesn't go into the paint. So exactly what kind of PF is he... The kind that sets up in the wing and does the things that a Sf would do? It's laughable.

Also, you would rather not have a Sf who can be a Point Forward? Why not? Because it fits your argument about making a weak Sf a weaker pF? Joe Johnson could use another ball handler in his life. Unless he's running Pick and Roll Bibby doesn't operate in the half court with the ball. So now we have Iso Joe! At least when Chillz was here, we had one guy who could get the ball, move with the ball, and allow Joe to go down and post up smaller SG.

When I talked about Marvin waiting on the ball, I didn't mean waiting just in that he couldn't create. I meant waiting in that he doesn't move. Watch a game. Chillz would work the baseline (because that's what he was asked to do). Marvin, on the other hand, just stand on the three point line and waits for somebody to pass him the ball.

Where does Marvin go after halftime? Does Marvin eat a big meal at the half and at halftime suffer from Itus? I've wondered why does Marvin disappear down the stretch? Why are we suffering with this guy who can't create, doesn't move, and is not a factor in games? And you say, you'd rather have him play because he could possibly play pF? Wow, I'll send the memo to Smoove, Horf, Solo, Hunter and the rest of our PF troop that Marvin wants to be a part of that too.

[frosgrim]

Uhm... What kind of minutes can Marvin give you at PF? Honestly, I don't seem to ever remember him playing the position? I guess it's like saying Smoove can give us minutes as a point guard? The problem is that Marvin is not a low post PF. He doesn't go into the paint. So exactly what kind of PF is he... The kind that sets up in the wing and does the things that a Sf would do? It's laughable.

Bias confirmation-much.

For evidence see when Smith went down early in the year. Marvin played significant minutes at PF. Same when Horford was out. Set and match.

But honestly, arguing with you about MW is fruitless. Its all about bias.