Whats the REAL reason Nique Got traded?

[Diesel]

Maybe its because I live in NJ but I remember very well that the national consensus of that #1 seeded Hawks team in 94 was that it was indeed smoke and mirrors and nobody thought they would come out of the east even when Nique was still there. They just didnt have the playoff pieces. It was another Lenny Wilkens regular season coaching spectacular.

After we lost Nique, we were smoke and Mirrors.

BTW, Houston came to Atlanta on 15 or 17 game streak and they left trying to start over. That was with Nique here.

[Sothron]

Oh, the make up artist is back.

Facts are that we only offered Manning 5 million dollars.

Fact is that we took on Snake's contract of 2.633 million and Babcock prorated it for one year to make the salary work so Snake was making ~3.4 Million per. 1.6 Million was not going to stop us from getting Deke. Not when we basically turned over our whole roster. Deke came in with 7 other new players.

Actually it does make a difference when two other teams in Denver and Detroit were offering similar deals. We needed to offer the most or at least match what the best offer was. Deke wasn't coming here for anything less than he signed for. That is a fact. Keeping Nique or Manning would have precluded us from getting Deke.

[Diesel]

smith and lisa are married.

Well, that's good to know. At the time, she was hosting teen summit on Saturdays. I thought... Some role model. Then again, there were no teens in the club. I didn't know if that was Charles Smith or not. He was just some tall skinny dude. I figured it was because he's actually a lot bigger in person than he looked on tv. I've been up close to a lot of basketball players (JR Reid, Mourning, Deke, Custis, Walt the Wizard, Nique, Spudd, Rivers, Augmon, Etc...) Smith is the first guy who looked bigger in person. All the rest of the guys seemed Shorter in person. Deke was about the same. Leads me to believe that playing the Knicks had to be hell on whoever.

[NJHAWK]

After we lost Nique, we were smoke and Mirrors.

BTW, Houston came to Atlanta on 15 or 17 game streak and they left trying to start over. That was with Nique here.

Yeah we did the same to the Cavs this year but we all know what happened at playoff time.

[Diesel]

Actually it does make a difference when two other teams in Denver and Detroit were offering similar deals. We needed to offer the most or at least match what the best offer was. Deke wasn't coming here for anything less than he signed for. That is a fact. Keeping Nique or Manning would have precluded us from getting Deke.

Still making it up as you go along I see.

Denver didn't offer Deke anything as significant. That's why it's laughable that you said Deke's main suitor was Denver and earlier denied that Detroit was in the race. If Denver could have come near 10 million per, Deke prolly never leaves Denver. Many say Bickerstaff dropped the ball when the truth is Bickerstaff didn't have the money. Now that may have been his own fault, but be that as it may, Denver was not a main suitor of Deke. They talked it. They even said that they would go over the cap to keep him. But when it was time to show Deke the money, Bickerstaff had no offer.

As it was with Shaquille O'Neal, formerly of the Orlando O'Neals and now a Laker, so it was with Dikembe Mutombo, once a beloved Denver Nugget, now an Atlanta Hawk with a brand new $600,000 home sitting empty in the Mile High City.

Like O'Neal, Mutombo is surprised to find himself relocated. When this free-agent tarantella began a year ago, he intended to remain with the Nuggets, a rising young team in a city he liked and that liked him in return.

The Nuggets wanted to re-sign Mutombo, who has averaged 12.9 points and 12.3 rebounds in his five seasons in Denver, for something in the $5-million to $6-million range. But David Falk, the agent for Alonzo Mourning as well as Mutombo, blew up the prevailing salary structure, engineering the trade that sent Mourning to Miami and an eventual $15-million annual salary.

When we offered 11 million, there was nothing left to talk about. We basically doubled what Denver was willing to spend. That's what you get when you overpay Reggie Williams and Bryan Stith.

[Sothron]

Still making it up as you go along I see.

Denver didn't offer Deke anything as significant. That's why it's laughable that you said Deke's main suitor was Denver and earlier denied that Detroit was in the race. If Denver could have come near 10 million per, Deke prolly never leaves Denver. Many say Bickerstaff dropped the ball when the truth is Bickerstaff didn't have the money. Now that may have been his own fault, but be that as it may, Denver was not a main suitor of Deke. They talked it. They even said that they would go over the cap to keep him. But when it was time to show Deke the money, Bickerstaff had no offer.

When we offered 11 million, there was nothing left to talk about. We basically doubled what Denver was willing to spend. That's what you get when you overpay Reggie Williams and Bryan Stith.

Might want to go back and reread things there guy. I never said Detroit wasn't a suitor. I said Denver was the main suitor to keep him. Deke wanted to stay in Denver, they told the press and the public they would pay "whatever it took" to keep him there. Atlanta and Detroit offered more money, he picked Atlanta because we offered slightly more than Detroit. If we didn't offer him that contract, say because we had Nique or Manning's salary on the book *cough* then he would have signed with Detroit because they were offering the second most money.

[Dejay]

Nique's last game with the Hawks, was the Seattle game on Feb 23rd.

Hawks record: 36 - 16 ( .692 winning percentage )

Manning's first game in a Hawks uniform, was the Philly game, on Feb. 26th.

Hawks record w/Manning: 20 - 9 ( .690 winning percentage )

While the ball spread around more with Nique gone, you could definitely see what the potential problem in the playoffs was going to be. As we've seen this year, in the playoffs, you need a guy who may can score in bunches, to get you over the hump. Manning was NOT that type of player. He was a complimentary type, glue guy, when he came to the Hawks. He got a lot of shots when he was with the Clippers. But in Atlanta, he was nowhere near the scoring threat he was with the Clips.

That ish almost bit us in the azz in that Miami series, but the defense was good enough to pull it out for us in those final 2 games. Just think, that year, both the Hawks AND Seattle ( both #1 seeds ), could've lost in the first round of the playoffs.

By the time we play Indiana, it was evident that Manning couldn't carry us offensively when we needed it. If the team didn't shoot well as a whole, we lost.

Still the worst trade in Hawks history, because that was easily the best Hawk team we'd ever assembled. Plus, there was NO JORDAN IN THE LEAGUE. That was our shot folks.

Instead of rolling the dice, and seeing if Nique could get us a title, they trade him, to insure that they'd at least get a quality player for next season.

Then his ( Manning's ) bytch azz bounces out of ATL, and leaves us looking like fools ( much like how Boozer did Cleveland, when he went to Utah ).

(( BLEEP )) DANNY MANNING. I still hate his guts.

Ding, ding, ding. The lines are now closed; we have a winner.

North and Diesel hit it on the head, bullseye on the mark. Sure, its nice to be able to share the ball and 'spread the wealth' like Lenny and Babs envisioned. But come playoff time, it gets down to who can hit shots when opposing defenses aren't playing the Nets on Saturday and the Bulls on Monday. You need a guy who can still hang 20 on the board come crunch time when everyone in the arena knows who's getting the ball. Bird could do it. Magic could do it. So could MJ, Barkley, Isiah, Clyde, and Hakeem. An aging Nique could still do that; Manning couldn't. Miami knew it and Indiana sure as hell knew it. The fact that 1) Manning didn't get off the tarmac at Hartsfield good before proclaiming that Atlanta wasn't one of his free-agent destinations and 2) he was back in the west coast with his bags packed before the rest of the team could empty their lockers makes this trade 10x worse.

Facts are facts; teams with the RIGHT superstars compete for and/or win titles. Every world champion since Lenny's bunch in Seattle has had at least one HOF-caliber player on the roster leading the way (with Detroit's 2005 squad being the exception and not the rule).

Yes, Nique was a free agent after that season. Yes, he probably wanted one more contract to ride off into the sunset with. I get that. But there are certain things you don't do as a sports organization and trading off the very guy who carried your entire team's hopes on his back when the Braves were gawd-awful and the Falcons had guys like you and me on their roster to play Montana's 49ers in a dreary, rundown Fulton-County Stadium in a POTENTIAL CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON NO LESS is one of them.

You make that deal when you're 25-26 and looking to rebuild, while sending your superstar to a place where he can get a ring (ala Ray Borque with the Avalanche a few years ago). You DON'T do it when you're 36-15 and vying for the top seed in the East with no MJ, Bird, Magic, or Isiah to deal with in the playoffs, much less send him to NBA-Siberia for a guy who publically stated he wanted nothing to do with you to begin with. Folks remember that; FREE AGENTS remember that. Is it no small wonder why Deke, Laphonso Ellis, and JJ are the only significant free agents that's stepped foot here without the Jaws of Life being needed since that trade went down?

The only things that stood in the way of us watching OJ interupt the Hawks and Rockets getting it on in the Finals was Ewing's squad. THAT'S IT. You think he would've allowed them to lay down like they did in Indiana? I don't, either.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Dejay

[Dejay]

I think you have to look at circumstance. That 1998 team looks really good on paper. The problems:

1. Phonze was always hurt.

Yeah but Tyrone Corbin and Grant Long were perfect role players in the starting 5 when needed. Ultimate team player 1 and Ultimate team player 2. lol

Uhhh, Corbin nor Long were members of the '98 squad.

[NJHAWK]

Uhhh, Corbin nor Long were members of the '98 squad.

Is this a trick comment where I say YES THE HELL THEY WERE and then you say no they werent in 1898? lol Cause if we are talking about 1998 they dam sure were on the team. You better google the 1998-99 ATlanta Hawks roster :blow out candles:

Edited May 20, 2009 by NJHAWK

[Dejay]

Is this a trick comment where I say YES THE HELL THEY WERE and then you say no they werent in 1898? lol Cause if we are talking about 1998 they dam sure were on the team. You better google the 1998-99 ATlanta Hawks roster :blow out candles:

Ha, we're BOTH wrong. Corbin was but Grant Long wasn't....

[NJHAWK]

Ha, we're BOTH wrong. Corbin was but Grant Long wasn't....

You sure you googled the right year lol. I believe 1998-99 was the strike year where we played 50 games. Long and Corbin were both on that team because that was the year we got swept out by the Knicks in round 2. Long and Corbin had to start in that series because Phonze and Hendu were hurt. I think we may have traded Laettner for the draft pick that became Scott Pollard by then.

[AHF]

You sure you googled the right year lol. I believe 1998-99 was the strike year where we played 50 games. Long and Corbin were both on that team because that was the year we got swept out by the Knicks in round 2. Long and Corbin had to start in that series because Phonze and Hendu were hurt. I think we may have traded Laettner for the draft pick that became Scott Pollard by then.

Looking at basketball reference, both Long and Corbin started for the Hawks during the 1998-99 season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/1999.html

1997-98 is a different season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/1998.html

[Sothron]

I miss Corbin, he never brought much on offense but man alive was he one hell of a help and team defender back then. Another one of those guys who played great defense but no stat shows it unless you watched him play.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Sothron

[Dejay]

You sure you googled the right year lol. I believe 1998-99 was the strike year where we played 50 games. Long and Corbin were both on that team because that was the year we got swept out by the Knicks in round 2. Long and Corbin had to start in that series because Phonze and Hendu were hurt. I think we may have traded Laettner for the draft pick that became Scott Pollard by then.

Ha, mistakes, everyone makes them. Long did come back and play for the Hawks after being traded to Detroit with Augmon. My bad.....

[NJHAWK]

I miss Corbin, he never brought much on offense but man alive was he one hell of a help and team defender back then. Another one of those guys who played great defense but no stat shows it unless you watched him play.

He had a decent jumper and was left wide open alot. I just remember how all the experts said we needed a sf and we would be ok. The problem is we could never find anyone to really oust Corbin out of his minutes because Lenny loved great defensive team players. What those Hawks really needed was bench depth, Mookie to shoot more consistant and Michael Jordon to stay out of the league.

[Dejay]

What those Hawks really needed was bench depth, Mookie to shoot more consistant and Michael Jordan to stay out of the league.

They had all three....in 1994....:doh:

[NJHAWK]

They had all three....in 1994....:doh:

Mookie was great that year but they had nothing even close to a bench. As a matter of fact their starter at 2 guard and center could have easily been 2nd or even 3rd string players on most teams in the league then and definitly the 94 Pacers.