JB's realistic Hawks offseason

[Johnnybravo4]

As Hawks fans we can wish for all the pie in the sky in the world. We can pine for the Caron Butlers, Lamar Odoms, TMacs and Chris Boshes but we all know that THIS organization neither has the balls or the funds to pull off something big so we have to be a little realistic. Here is my realistic offseason for the Hawks.

Our Free agents

Let Bibby go. He probably won't take the 5-6 million per that we would want to pay him and even if he did, his worth after this season would be minimal because of his age and diminishing skill set.

Give Flip a 3 year 18 million dollar contract. Since he is pretty much our best bench player, you have to pay him as such, but I wouldn't give him too long a contract. I wanna keep Flip hungry.

Sign Marvin Williams to a 5 year 40 million dollar contract. If he takes it fine if not we will give a similar free agent the same money. I think he will have an Al Harrington type rest if his career which would be fine for 8 million per. He will still be young enough to get another mega contract if he's good enough. But since he is our #2 pick from 2005....we kinda have to sign him.

Let Zaza go. Hate to lose his attitude but I can replace him with 20 different people this offseason

Let the remainder of the FA bench go.

Free Agents we can sign

Jarrett Jack- I think we can bring him back to the ATL with a 5 year 35 million. I think Indiana would rather draft Eric Maynor or Ty Lawson than pay Jack 7 million per.

Udonis Haslem- We need some inside toughness and rebounding off the bench and I believe Haslem would bring that to us. We got killed in the playoffs beause we couldn't bring anyone of substance off the bench to get us tough rebounds and could knock down wide open shots. Haslem is almost automatic from the key. We could give him our MLE

David Andersen- If we didn't sign Haslem Andersen would be our alternative.

Draft- B.J. Mullins. Right now I think he is a slight stiff, but you can't teach 7 ft and I think he has better potential than Randolph Morris. He can serve as Horford's primary backup and could play with Horford on the frontline if Smoove is in foul trouble.

Realistic lineup

Jack/Law

JJ/Flip

Marvin/Mo

Smoove/Haslem

Horford/Mullins

The rest of the bench we could fill with some shooter projects.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Johnnybravo4

[TheDude]

if zaza is let go, i'd rather replace him with Gortat who still has potential and even only starting his 2nd season, could give us what zaza did while still getting better..i really think someone is going to get a steal in Gortat.

i'm down with haslem as a backup pf.......draft bpa in first round...trade up, draft toney douglas in 2nd round.

[Dragitoff]

Another backup PF I'd love to see here is Drew Gooden. He's a vet that knows his role. Anyways, I think your plan is pretty simple, yet good, but I'm not necessarily an advocate anymore of Jack. His game seems to have gone downhill. I think he's still a talented player, but I think he's more of a backup vs. a starter. Also, where in your plan do we move Speedy? LoL. His expiring deal might make him our most valuable trade commodity.

[Packfill]

As Hawks fans we can wish for all the pie in the sky in the world. We can pine for the Caron Butlers, Lamar Odoms, TMacs and Chris Boshes but we all know that THIS organization neither has the balls or the funds to pull off something big so we have to be a little realistic. Here is my realistic offseason for the Hawks.

Our Free agents

Let Bibby go. He probably won't take the 5-6 million per that we would want to pay him and even if he did, his worth after this season would be minimal because of his age and diminishing skill set.

Give Flip a 3 year 18 million dollar contract. Since he is pretty much our best bench player, you have to pay him as such, but I wouldn't give him too long a contract. I wanna keep Flip hungry.

Sign Marvin Williams to a 5 year 40 million dollar contract. If he takes it fine if not we will give a similar free agent the same money. I think he will have an Al Harrington type rest if his career which would be fine for 8 million per. He will still be young enough to get another mega contract if he's good enough. But since he is our #2 pick from 2005....we kinda have to sign him.

Let Zaza go. Hate to lose his attitude but I can replace him with 20 different people this offseason

Let the remainder of the FA bench go.

Free Agents we can sign

Jarrett Jack- I think we can bring him back to the ATL with a 5 year 35 million. I think Indiana would rather draft Eric Maynor or Ty Lawson than pay Jack 7 million per.

Udonis Haslem- We need some inside toughness and rebounding off the bench and I believe Haslem would bring that to us. We got killed in the playoffs beause we couldn't bring anyone of substance off the bench to get us tough rebounds and could knock down wide open shots. Haslem is almost automatic from the key. We could give him our MLE

David Andersen- If we didn't sign Haslem Andersen would be our alternative.

Draft- B.J. Mullins. Right now I think he is a slight stiff, but you can't teach 7 ft and I think he has better potential than Randolph Morris. He can serve as Horford's primary backup and could play with Horford on the frontline if Smoove is in foul trouble.

Realistic lineup

Jack/Law

JJ/Flip

Marvin/Mo

Smoove/Haslem

Horford/Mullins

The rest of the bench we could fill with some shooter projects.

No way I would give Flip $6 million per. I wouldn't give Flip anything more then a 2 year $8 million contract.

[coachx]

I'd love to get Jack in here as PG. We would have to trade or waive our rights to Chillz to have the money under the cap to sign him.

To further complicate things we would also need to get Marvin signed early b/c his cap hold is so high. That rarely happens with RFA, especially in this market. I question whether Marvin would even sign a 5 year $40 mill contract at $8 mill per year. He could opt to play for the one year qualifying offer of $7.5 mill and then become and UFA next year where there will be more teams with cap room looking to spend, plus the economy should be rebounding by then. If Marvin chooses to take the one year tender offer it will likely be late in the game after all other options have been exhausted.

Jack, Sessions and Felton too for that matter, will likely be gone by the time we work everything out to have the money to bid on him.

Our best bet is getting Jack in a sign and trade.

Edited June 17, 2009 by coachx

[exodus]

As Hawks fans we can wish for all the pie in the sky in the world. We can pine for the Caron Butlers, Lamar Odoms, TMacs and Chris Boshes but we all know that THIS organization neither has the balls or the funds to pull off something big so we have to be a little realistic. Here is my realistic offseason for the Hawks.

Our Free agents

Let Bibby go. He probably won't take the 5-6 million per that we would want to pay him and even if he did, his worth after this season would be minimal because of his age and diminishing skill set.

Give Flip a 3 year 18 million dollar contract. Since he is pretty much our best bench player, you have to pay him as such, but I wouldn't give him too long a contract. I wanna keep Flip hungry.

Sign Marvin Williams to a 5 year 40 million dollar contract. If he takes it fine if not we will give a similar free agent the same money. I think he will have an Al Harrington type rest if his career which would be fine for 8 million per. He will still be young enough to get another mega contract if he's good enough. But since he is our #2 pick from 2005....we kinda have to sign him.

Let Zaza go. Hate to lose his attitude but I can replace him with 20 different people this offseason

Let the remainder of the FA bench go.

Free Agents we can sign

Jarrett Jack- I think we can bring him back to the ATL with a 5 year 35 million. I think Indiana would rather draft Eric Maynor or Ty Lawson than pay Jack 7 million per.

Udonis Haslem- We need some inside toughness and rebounding off the bench and I believe Haslem would bring that to us. We got killed in the playoffs beause we couldn't bring anyone of substance off the bench to get us tough rebounds and could knock down wide open shots. Haslem is almost automatic from the key. We could give him our MLE

David Andersen- If we didn't sign Haslem Andersen would be our alternative.

Draft- B.J. Mullins. Right now I think he is a slight stiff, but you can't teach 7 ft and I think he has better potential than Randolph Morris. He can serve as Horford's primary backup and could play with Horford on the frontline if Smoove is in foul trouble.

Realistic lineup

Jack/Law

JJ/Flip

Marvin/Mo

Smoove/Haslem

Horford/Mullins

The rest of the bench we could fill with some shooter projects.

If we renounce Bibby, childress and Zaza i still don't think we will have the cap space to bring in all these guys. Remember that we have no Bird Rights on Flip.

Edited June 17, 2009 by exodus

[macdaddy]

I don't like the idea of having $75 million over the next 5 years tied up in Jarret Jack and Marvin.

I agree with your point about our moves probably not being blockbusters. Honestly I think the most likely scenario is getting a new vet PG like Alston or someone to replace Bibby. Sign Zaza and a backup PF like Haslem, Gooden, Mcdyess and that's it. And sign Flip. The team would be exactly the same except we'd have a real PF backup and a new PG. While not that exciting I think we'd still compete pretty well. If we develop more of an inside offensive game with Smoove and Horford then I think you'd see a huge year from JJ.

[coachx]

Sign Zaza and a backup PF like Haslem, Gooden, Mcdyess and that's it. And sign Flip. The team would be exactly the same except we'd have a real PF backup and a new PG. While not that exciting I think we'd still compete pretty well. If we develop more of an inside offensive game with Smoove and Horford then I think you'd see a huge year from JJ.

We will not have enough room under the salary cap to sign other team's FAs.

Lets walk through this step by step.

1. Marvin has a 1 year $7.5 qualifuing offer option where he would then become a UFA in 2010. That means the least we sign him for on a multi year deal is $8 mill.

2. We currently have $42 mill in salary tied up for next season with an expected salary cap at $57 mill. Add Marvin's $8 mill and your now up to $50 mill.(ignoring cap holds for now / of course Bibby and Chillz would be renounced)

3. ZaZa will take between $5 - 6 mill per year to keep. (He made $4 mill last year and deserves a raise. Now we are at $55 to $56 mill of cap space.

4. Flip - we can go over the cap to sign our on FAs BUT NOT OTHER TEAMS FAs.

5. Who do we trade to get Alson ? the rights to Chillz perhaps ? The Magic would give him away for cash if they could so they could free up $$ under luxury tax to resign Turkelough.

IF you do not understand the CBA you might think........Lets just sign Jack and Gortat first and then go over the cap to sign our own guys. It does not work that way people. Read the salary post at the top of the homecourt forum were cap holds are explained at length.

This whole GM thing is tougher then people think.

Edited June 17, 2009 by coachx

[MVP23]

really? Let Mike Bibby and Zaza go? Wow. and let Acie Law run point? lmao.....this is why the rest of the league think we are jokes......

[AtLaS]

We are no better with that starting lineup than we are now. I'd much rather take a risk on TJ Ford who would be a GREAT fit here IMO.

[DrReality]

Flip is not worth that much, neither is Marvin for that matter. Would love to have Jack but juggling the cap numbers are going to be tough and I agree that timing could be everything.

Afraid Gortatt is going to get a lot of offers and we might have to stand in line. But would love to have him.

[macdaddy]

really? Let Mike Bibby and Zaza go? Wow. and let Acie Law run point? lmao.....this is why the rest of the league think we are jokes......

The rest of the league thinks we are jokes because fans through out lots of different scenarios about the Hawks on messageboards?

[Hatertots]

if zaza is let go, i'd rather replace him with Gortat who still has potential and even only starting his 2nd season, could give us what zaza did while still getting better..i really think someone is going to get a steal in Gortat.

i'm down with haslem as a backup pf.......draft bpa in first round...trade up, draft toney douglas in 2nd round.

I think you're dead on about Gortat. He's another "super-sub" type who has the ability to come off the bench and score a handful of efficient points in the flow of the game and excel in a non-scoring aspect, rebounds in Gortat's case. In Zaza's role, I'd guess he could give the Hawks 7 pts 8 reb and around 1.5 blk. He's sneaky good and a solid pickup for any team that gets him.

If Sund can pry away Gortat from Orlando and Ramon Sessions from the Bucks, I'll take back every snarky Saer Sene comment I've ever made.

[MVP23]

The rest of the league thinks we are jokes because fans through out lots of different scenarios about the Hawks on messageboards?

Yeah, if that includes people wanting to trade MArvin Williams for Caron Bulter, and let Flip run point.

[exodus]

We will not have enough room under the salary cap to sign other team's FAs.

4. Flip - we can go over the cap to sign our on FAs BUT NOT OTHER TEAMS FAs.

Not exactly. We can exceed the cap to sign our own players when we have the Bird Rights on those players. We don't have the Bird Rights on Flip so the only way we can sign him is if we are below the cap or use the MLE.

[coachx]

Not exactly. We can exceed the cap to sign our own players when we have the Bird Rights on those players. We don't have the Bird Rights on Flip so the only way we can sign him is if we are below the cap or use the MLE.

I believe you but help me understand this:

I saw where the Hawks are hit with $1.8 mill cap hold with Flip.

Why are we hit with a cap hold on Flip if we have no bird rights / right to go over the cap to sign him ?

[exodus]

I believe you but help me understand this:

I saw where the Hawks are hit with $1.8 mill cap hold with Flip.

Why are we hit with a cap hold on Flip if we have no bird rights / right to go over the cap to sign him ?

You'll have to show me a link for that because this is the first i have heard of a cap hold for Flip. You don't have Bird Rights on a guy that you signed for a 1 year deal.

[coachx]

You'll have to show me a link for that because this is the first i have heard of a cap hold for Flip. You don't have Bird Rights on a guy that you signed for a 1 year deal.

I am just going by the Hawks salary cap thread at the top of the Homecourt Forum Page.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....howtopic=336818

In it Hawkfanatic mentions Flip has a cap hold and does mention "Non-Bird Rights."

Edited June 17, 2009 by coachx

[exodus]

I am just going by the Hawks salary cap thread at the top of the Homecourt Forum Page.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....howtopic=336818

In it Hawkfanatic mentions Flip has a cap hold and does mention "Non-Bird Rights."

This is the first I have heard of Non-Bird rights and i think this explains it.

If you renounce a player's rights, you cannot use any exceptions to sign the player. That means whatever rights they have (Bird, Early Bird), the MLE, and LLE cannot be used to sign the player; only capspace can be used to sign the player.

Flip was signed using the MLE so i guess his cap hold is counting against the MLE. If we want to use the full MLE on another player i would guess we would have to renounce Flips Non-Bird rights.

[AHF]

There is no way in the world I sign a guy like Flip to a 3 year, 18 million dollar contract. He was a scrub who had some good and some terrible moments up until last year. No one really wanted him last year and he won't have huge leverage this offseason in this economy. Plus, I don't know that he is nearly as useful in a structured offense (which I would like to see in Atlanta in the future). Lower the years and/or the dollars for me.