Question to the board.

[Swatguy]

Joe the SF and Marvin the SF?

[capstone21]

Joe the SF and Marvin the SF?

If this is another Flip instead of Marvin post it is getting old.

Marvin is much more important then Flip to this teams success. Joe will be good at SF and probably will play it a lot with Crawford but it will be as a backup to Marvin. So when Marvin goes out and Crawford comes in then Joe can switch over to that position.

[Swatguy]

If this is another Flip instead of Marvin post it is getting old.

Marvin is much more important then Flip to this teams success. Joe will be good at SF and probably will play it a lot with Crawford but it will be as a backup to Marvin. So when Marvin goes out and Crawford comes in then Joe can switch over to that position.

The thread is about Joe vs Marvin as a SF, particularly on this team.

I contend Joe is so much better than(not then) Marvin will every be. Joe is light years ahead of Marvin, AS A Small Forward.

The point is, Signing Marvin to a long and costly contract handcuffs this roster even more than(not then) your attempts to Highjack this thread.

By the way, Jamal is better than Marvin too. So is Flip.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Swatguy

[Cwell]

The thread is about Joe vs Marvin as a SF, particularly on this team.

I contend Joe is so much better than(not then) Marvin will every be. Joe is light years ahead of Marvin, AS A Small Forward.

The point is, Signing Marvin to a long and costly contract handcuffs this roster even more than(not then) your attempts to Highjack this thread.

By the way, Jamal is better than Marvin too. So is Flip.

okay Flip had 1 good season and is a journey man bench player. He aint better than anybody. Jamal has been all over too recently. and neither of those guys are SF's and Joe can't defend the better SF's like Marvin can and that also gives us a size advantage somewhere since we lack it in the post. Comparing a talented young IMPROVING starting SF to bench chucking SG's? lol

Edited July 10, 2009 by Cwell

[Admin]

okay Flip had 1 good season and is a journey man bench player. He aint better than anybody. Jamal has been all over too recently. and neither of those guys are SF's and Joe can't defend the better SF's like Marvin can and that also gives us a size advantage somewhere since we lack it in the post. Comparing a talented young IMPROVING starting SF to bench chucking SG's? lol

Not to mention going from having a size/length advantage against most teams to immediately having a disadvantage against most of them.

[buckeye242424]

The thread is about Joe vs Marvin as a SF, particularly on this team.

I contend Joe is so much better than(not then) Marvin will every be. Joe is light years ahead of Marvin, AS A Small Forward.

The point is, Signing Marvin to a long and costly contract handcuffs this roster even more than(not then) your attempts to Highjack this thread.

By the way, Jamal is better than Marvin too. So is Flip.

Obviously, you're not considering defense and rebounding in that assessment.

[Swatguy]

okay Flip had 1 good season and is a journey man bench player. He aint better than anybody. Jamal has been all over too recently. and neither of those guys are SF's and Joe can't defend the better SF's like Marvin can and that also gives us a size advantage somewhere since we lack it in the post. Comparing a talented young IMPROVING starting SF to bench chucking SG's? lol

Bull

Flip has played well wherever he has been. He is just a baller. Marvin is a Wanna be.

Jamal is a Baller.

Marvin vs Joe is not comparable. Use Marvin to get a Kamen or Camby or Chandler with That money.

You cannot handcuff a roster with a "second" contract, not ready for prime time wannabe, fade to black player(with back issues). Let someone else trade quality for his potential. Flip on the court and in the locker surpassed Marvin's want to be.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Swatguy

[Swatguy]

Obviously, you're not considering defense and rebounding in that assessment.

Jamal and Flip are guards. I guarantee they defend better against guards than Marvin. Get a big for Marvins potential to defend bigs and rebound.

Joe is the SF solution.

[Packfill]

The thread is about Joe vs Marvin as a SF, particularly on this team.

I contend Joe is so much better than(not then) Marvin will every be. Joe is light years ahead of Marvin, AS A Small Forward.

The point is, Signing Marvin to a long and costly contract handcuffs this roster even more than(not then) your attempts to Highjack this thread.

By the way, Jamal is better than Marvin too. So is Flip.

I disagree strongly. Yes JJ is better then Marvin now and in the future, but Crawford and Flip are journeymen for a reason.

A Crawford/Bibby starting backcourt would be the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA hands down.

[jerrywest]

Jamal and Flip are guards. I guarantee they defend better against guards than Marvin. Get a big for Marvins potential to defend bigs and rebound.

Joe is the SF solution.

Isiah said Crawford isn't physical. He is fine defending 1s, but can't guard physical 2s. He must be much worse on 3s. When Woody's switching defense puts him on LeBron, the King could make him a spongeBob squarepant. Without Marvin, even with Mo, our defense is so much smaller. We are smaller in all 5 positions without Marvin. Yuck. With Joe+Marvin, we are almost always bigger at 2 & 3. Just restating the obvious.

[Admin]

Isiah said Crawford isn't physical. He is fine defending 1s, but can't guard physical 2s. He must be much worse on 3s. When Woody's switching defense puts him on LeBron, the King could make him a spongeBob squarepant. Without Marvin, even with Mo, our defense is so much smaller. We are smaller in all 5 positions without Marvin. Yuck. With Joe+Marvin, we are almost always bigger at 2 & 3. Just restating the obvious.

You'd think that was the case but apparently it's not.

[jerrywest]

Bull

Flip has played well wherever he has been. He is just a baller. Marvin is a Wanna be.

Ridiculous.

If Marvin was UFA, all 30 teams would have tried to sign him for MLE or more. Do you hear any buzz on Flip?

[jy23]

You'd think that was the case but apparently it's not.

great quote!!! lol, totally agree

[Crank]

I disagree strongly. Yes JJ is better then Marvin now and in the future, but Crawford and Flip are journeymen for a reason.

A Crawford/Bibby starting backcourt would be the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA hands down.

How is Crawford considered a journeyman ? Do you consider Shaq a journeyman ?

As for worst defensive backcourt statement what exactly is being used to determine this ? Ive seen it said several times but no one ever says why or how they came to this conclusion .

I dont agree that we should be dumping Marvin though . We need to be strengthening our team not swapping out talent though so unless we were getting a stud PF/C in return I would rather just have everyone back and go from there.

[buckeye242424]

Jamal and Flip are guards. I guarantee they defend better against guards than Marvin. Get a big for Marvins potential to defend bigs and rebound.

Joe is the SF solution.

So, guards don't rebound?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Joe at Small Forward is not smart unless we're playing against another team that's playing small ball as well.

And the reason is because we are already undersized with Josh Smith and Al Horford at the 4-5. With the average to above average size combo at the SG and SF position of Joe and Marvin it helps make up for that.

If you play Joe at the SF and a smaller SG on top of that, these problems would be even more pronounced and we would be one of the worst teams in the league on the boards and it would take away post up advantages

[jerrywest]

Joe at Small Forward is not smart unless we're playing against another team that's playing small ball as well.

And the reason is because we are already undersized with Josh Smith and Al Horford at the 4-5. With the average to above average size combo at the SG and SF position of Joe and Marvin it helps make up for that.

If you play Joe at the SF and a smaller SG on top of that, these problems would be even more pronounced and we would be one of the worst teams in the league on the boards and it would take away post up advantages

This post should be pinned on top, because it'd save some internet bandwidth here.

[Packfill]

How is Crawford considered a journeyman ? Do you consider Shaq a journeyman ?

As for worst defensive backcourt statement what exactly is being used to determine this ? Ive seen it said several times but no one ever says why or how they came to this conclusion .

I dont agree that we should be dumping Marvin though . We need to be strengthening our team not swapping out talent though so unless we were getting a stud PF/C in return I would rather just have everyone back and go from there.

Crawford is a journeyman because he has an itinerant career being traded back and forth between bottom feeding teams prior to the Hawks obtaining him for spare parts. Shaq, on the other hand, until most recently, was a centerpiece - he has won 4 titles if you did not notice. Crawford is a hired gun on cellar dwellers. With the Hawks, he will be asked to play the "Flip" role by providing some offensive spark off the bench. He is not a starter on a good team.

Crawford is acknowledged as a poor defender. Bibby is a poor defender. Which team in the NBA could put together a starting backcourt with two worse defnders?

[coachx]

Joe the SF and Marvin the SF?

You have to look at the whole startgin 5 and not just A vs. B.

It should be......

Joe -SG and Marvin -SF with Crawford as 6th man

or

Crawford -SG / Joe -SF with Flip as 6th man

That seems like an easy one for me.

Keep in mind we were on of the worst rebounding teams in the league last year and have added nothing to our front couert to bolster the rebounding. Marvin is the best rebounder of all those guys and can give you minutes at PF.

Now I would like to see JJ play 15 minutes a night at SF (with Crawford at SG) but not the whole game.

Edited July 10, 2009 by coachx

[Diesel]

The thread is about Joe vs Marvin as a SF, particularly on this team.

I contend Joe is so much better than(not then) Marvin will every be. Joe is light years ahead of Marvin, AS A Small Forward.

The point is, Signing Marvin to a long and costly contract handcuffs this roster even more than(not then) your attempts to Highjack this thread.

By the way, Jamal is better than Marvin too. So is Flip.

I will give you the truth because you will probably get a lot of people crying about you asking the question..

But the truth is that Joe is MILES better than Marvin at the three.

Defensively.

Joe has the ability to play better defense than Marvin at the 3. When we played Cleveland in the playoffs, you could tell that Lebron was guarded when Joe was on him.

I think that Joe has an advantage guarding Sfs because he doesn't have to chase them around like he chases 2s. At 6'7 240, Joe is strong enough to handle anybody. Rarely do you see anybody post Joe up, Rarely do you see anybody shoot over Joe.

Offensively.

Joe's offense doesn't miss a step at Sf. He plays the same way weather he's at the 2 or 3. That being the case, the real question is IS Marvin better than Crawford at the 2?

I don't think so. Crawford has been mentioned in Allstar circles as a starter at the 2. I've never heard anybody saying Marvin got snubbed.

Intangibles.

Marvin used to go to the line a lot. NO longer. Two things have happened. Marvin stopped driving and Refs stopped giving Marvin calls. The Whole league now knows that Marvin is clumsy and he clumsily falls towards the rim when he drives. I've seen Marvin picking himself up off the floor (with no call) last year more times than he has in the previous three years.

When you talk about Crawford, Crawford drives. Crawford averaged 5.1 FTA per 36 to Marvin's 4.7 & Flip 4.2 per 36.