State of the Franchise

[coachx]

I think the teams goal should be 50 wins. Barring significant injuries, anything less could be seen as a sign of stagnation.

I think the key to any improvement lies in the frontcourt, at least one of Smith, Williams and Horford needs to take the next step. They are all still young but have sufficient NBA experience that the age excuses are wearing thin.

50 wins sounds like a good regular season goal ! Especially if we stay healthier then last year. The true goal should be to get to the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time in since the franchise moved to Atlanta. From there anything couild happen.

With the East getting tougher we could be better team and only get 45-47 wins. The true measure is playoff performance.

I think there is still plenty of room for growth from within.

1. Teague just turned 21 in June

2. Marvin just turned 23 in June

3. Horford just turned 23 in June

4. Morris is only 23. He played most of last season at 22, the age of most college seniors. He could still develop into a role player since bigs take longer to develop.

5. Smoove is only 24

6. ZaZa is 25

All of the players above still have room for natural growth and progression in their game. They will naturally add polish to their games.

The guys below are at ages that are still considered prime years:

1. JJ - just turned 28 in June

2. Crawford is 29

3. Mo is 30

4. Bibby just turned 31 in May

I still see a lot of natural progression in store for this group. 50 wins, in a tougher Eastern Conference, is definately attainable.

[coachx]

Bibby, Nelson, Mo Williams, Rondo

Joe, Delonte West, Ray Allen, Pietrus

Marvin, Vince, Paul Pierce, Lebron

Josh, Garnett, Varejao, Lewis

Horford, Howard, Perkins, Shaq

Damn, now that I've typed this out it looks even worse than I thought, lol. Unless someone steps up in a major way, we will have to platoon it ala the 2004 pistons.

It makes it very clear how important the resigning of Marvin was. Look how stacked the East is with SFs !

[Vol4ever]

Just the mathematics make it increasingly difficult to do better each year, but I think we may have it in us for our first 50-win season based on yet another year of maturity of the younger guys on the team. Getting Crawford is important, but in view of the outstanding year that Flip had, I don't see his contribution as having that much more impact than we'd already enjoyed. Maybe a little, but not much. As we're almost all in agreement, it is critical, though, that we find some beef to come off the bench with some credible minutes the way that Cliff Levingston and Antoinne Carr once did.

Looking at the opposition for 09-10, while others in the conference made notable additions, they also made some notable subtractions... and/or... will be yet another year older...

And having accounted for all of those factors, I think we're easily a playoff team, and perhaps could even slip into the #3 slot without having to depend on luck. If Sund isn't able to acquire some low-post bench support, though, we could just as easily be fighting for the #6 or #7 slot.

I agree 100%. My thougts exactly. ZaZa is a 15 minute backup in this league and plays very little defense due to his lack of quickness and mobility. If we don't get a solid big to play defense we will not go anywhere in the playoffs IMO.

[Peoriabird]

I think we'll have the fourth seed and win between 50-55 games. We'll play one of the big three in the second round and fare pretty well in the series. I don't think we can overcome the size of the other teams unless someone on the team becomes a true 1a along with joe johnson. Against the big 3 we have the advantage with Joe Johnson against them all and really that's it. Maybe Josh against Varejao.

Bibby, Nelson, Mo Williams, Rondo

Joe, Delonte West, Ray Allen, Pietrus

Marvin, Vince, Paul Pierce, Lebron

Josh, Garnett, Varejao, Lewis

Horford, Howard, Perkins, Shaq

Damn, now that I've typed this out it looks even worse than I thought, lol. Unless someone steps up in a major way, we will have to platoon it ala the 2004 pistons.

I look at it this way. Joe Johnson had one of his worst years offensively especially shooting the basketball and the chances of him shooting that poorly this up coming season are low. If Josh Smith makes small corrections to his game, it would improve the Hawk's offense significantly. If he just shot 1/3 fewer jump shots and average 1 fewer turn overs per game, the Hawk offense would significantly improve. If Marvin improved his 3 point shooting by 5%, our offense would significantly improve. If Horford and Josh Smith improved their free throw shooting by 7-10% which is possible, our point production would improve dramatically. If we stay relatively healthy next year which is not unreasonable since we are so young, our win total would significantly improve. If Marvin and Josh Smith improved their rebounding by 1 rpg, our defense would improve tremendously! All and all I think that we can win 50+ games easily with minor improvements.

[jy23]

At least 50 wins should definately be the regular season goal, anything can happen in the playoffs we just need everyone to make small improvements to their game and we could really make some noise this year!

[ATLSmith]

50 wins sounds like a good target to reach for this season.

I'm more interested in getting past the 2nd round of the playoffs though.

[AmishBoy]

I look at it this way. Joe Johnson had one of his worst years offensively especially shooting the basketball and the chances of him shooting that poorly this up coming season are low. If Josh Smith makes small corrections to his game, it would improve the Hawk's offense significantly. If he just shot 1/3 fewer jump shots and average 1 fewer turn overs per game, the Hawk offense would significantly improve. If Marvin improved his 3 point shooting by 5%, our offense would significantly improve. If Horford and Josh Smith improved their free throw shooting by 7-10% which is possible, our point production would improve dramatically. If we stay relatively healthy next year which is not unreasonable since we are so young, our win total would significantly improve. If Marvin and Josh Smith improved their rebounding by 1 rpg, our defense would improve tremendously! All and all I think that we can win 50+ games easily with minor improvements.

I think if Josh, Marv, and Al just naturally progress the team will give the top 3 a competitive second round matchup, but unless one takes a drastic step we still come up short.

[Plainview1981]

Why do you think we are getting worse?

The east is upgraded and this team really hasn't. The best player on the team has played worse and worse the last couple of seasons... Josh Smith isn't improving. 8 million a year to a 4th or 5th option. No added size. This team is capped out and really isn't much better than the teams below it. Like somebody over at realgm said... If the Hawks would have drew Chicago in the first round, the Bulls would have won the series.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[jy23]

The east is upgraded and this team really hasn't. The best player on the team has played worse and worse the last couple of seasons... Josh Smith isn't improving. 8 million a year to a 4th or 5th option. No added size. This team is capped out and really isn't much better than the teams below it. Like somebody over at realgm said... If the Hawks would have drew Chicago in the first round, the Bulls would have won the series.

The only one of those teams that I would say REALLY got better was orlando. They actually added some depth to their bench and just replaced the one player that they lost. Boston got a pretty good player (he's old) but they may lose some of their depth off that bench(Big baby, Powe, Moore). They're all a year older (bad for them) and we're also a year older (good for us). Cleveland got Shaq, ok........... Big name but doesn't really mean much. They're still slow, maybe slower and shaq clogs the lane and takes away some driving lanes from LJ which was there because big Z was able to stretch the defense. Now to address OUR team.......Josh was hurt for most of the year which was the reason for his drop in stats, Marvin improved his shooting and stepped up in games when it was called for..I really think that he will have a breakout year (no reason, just a feeling). Joe was ran into the ground the last 2 years and I really think fatigue had alot to do with his production (I think Craw gets him a lil more rest). But really y in the heck would u think that this team has maxed out? Thats just dumb. So Kobe was as good as he was going to be 7 or 8 years ago right? Tim Duncan was at his max his rookie year correct? MJ was his best in the 80s, he just happen to win 6 rings in the 90s because he was lucky right? Negativity sometimes just gets in the way of common sense and it seems to do that alot with you.

[Gray Mule]

:computer2:

Well, let's see. We still have some empty spots on our roster. Do we have any $$$ left to sign

any significant players to fill out these spaces? Or, do we have NBADL rejects for the end

of the bence? Just kidding, but seriously, who do we add in these empty holes? This will

make a difference, maybe a big difference.

Will we find ANY big men for the roster? Any one to simply throw out there and give six hard

fouls to the huge centers we must face this upcoming season?

Another question. Will Woody insist on playing JJ 55 minutes per game this season? I know.

That would mean a lot of overtime games for the Hawks for this to happen, but you get the

picture. When we were in the playoffs last season, JJ was all used up by the time we got

there. He had nothing left.

East is said to be improving. Great. If that is true, they will all be playing each other and while

this is going on, these improved teams are beating up on each other, aren't they. So, no

one is running away and hiding from any one else. Just a few wins or losses here and there

could mean the difference in being in 3rd or 7th place in the east.

Another question. Will our rookie PG give us any more than Acie? We all expect him to be

able to contribute this season. Could be a difference maker in the few minutes we expect

to see him on the floor. Speed. Speed. Speed. Hopefully, Woody will not kill his confidence.

And then, there's the health of our players. Not too bad last season. Just a couple of seasons

ago, we had injury after injury to contend with and we weren't deep enough to overcome them.

Abbot & Costello had that "Who's on first" routine, which is a classic.

This Hawks team now has, "Who's on the bench?" Who on the balance of the roster?

With no additions to our present roster, they are still a .500 team. Just barely that. The difference

makers are the players yet to be added. I believe we have nine players now under contract,

maybe ten. If each additional new player we add can give us three additional victories each,

that's well above .500 Is that too much to expect? Three extra wins per player signed.

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

[gsuteke]

The east is upgraded and this team really hasn't. The best player on the team has played worse and worse the last couple of seasons... Josh Smith isn't improving. 8 million a year to a 4th or 5th option. No added size. This team is capped out and really isn't much better than the teams below it. Like somebody over at realgm said... If the Hawks would have drew Chicago in the first round, the Bulls would have won the series.

If you want to be taken seriously on this site I suggest you start posting with a more even tempered point of view.

First of all no player on the Hawks has reached his NBA Prime in respect to age outside of Joe who is just entering it and Bibby. This team is growing from within on a year to year basis as their improvement in the Win/Loss column year over year over year proves.

Secondly what contender isn't capped out? Only 3 or 4 teams every year have the cap room to sign a difference making player, i.e. a "Max Contract" guy like Bosh or LBJ. Coincidentally teams like Memphis are in that category every year and they're not spending money. Therefore your argument about the Hawks and their cap space is extremely disingenuous.

Like somebody said over at RealGM ............... dude get ahold of yourself. RealGM is a group of stupid basketball homers. That's why the members of HS post here and not there. Why in the world would this site be more popular and more importantly posted on than RealGM when you consider it's broad perspective in the basketball forum world?

You can't explain it because Hawksquawk rules and RealGM sucks. Even having said that Bulls posters were correcting the Hawks Haters left and right in that thread.

Should I be suprised that you ignored those posts?

Third does anyone here think an injury depleted Hawks team wouldn't have taken care of the Bulls? Seriously, Dwayne Wade is good enough to win a series all on his own.

My suggestion to you Hotlanta is to find a team you like. When you find that team post on their board.

I encourage all Atlanta Hawks fans to post here and post often. If you don't like the team perhaps this isnt' the place for you. There are many options out there, find the one that best fits you.

Edited July 31, 2009 by gsuteke

[jy23]

If you want to be taken seriously on this site I suggest you start posting with a more even tempered point of view.

First of all no player on the Hawks has reached his NBA Prime in respect to age outside of Joe who is just entering it and Bibby. This team is growing from within on a year to year basis as their improvement in the Win/Loss column year over year over year proves.

Secondly what contender isn't capped out? Only 3 or 4 teams every year have the cap room to sign a difference making player, i.e. a "Max Contract" guy like Bosh or LBJ. Coincidentally teams like Memphis are in that category every year and they're not spending money. Therefore your argument about the Hawks and their cap space is extremely disingenuous.

Like somebody said over at RealGM ............... dude get ahold of yourself. RealGM is a group of stupid basketball homers. That's why the members of HS post here and not there. Why in the world would this site be more popular and more importantly posted on than RealGM when you consider it's broad perspective in the basketball forum world?

You can't explain it because Hawksquawk rules and RealGM sucks. Even having said that Bulls posters were correcting the Hawks Haters left and right in that thread.

Should I be suprised that you ignored those posts?

Third does anyone here think an injury depleted Hawks team wouldn't have taken care of the Bulls? Seriously, Dwayne Wade is good enough to win a series all on his own.

My suggestion to you Hotlanta is to find a team you like. When you find that team post on their board.

I encourage all Atlanta Hawks fans to post here and post often. If you don't like the team perhaps this isnt' the place for you. There are many options out there, find the one that best fits you.

thank YOU for getting that off MY chest! lol

[Dsinner]

Is the east so strong that a 50 win season only gets us 4th place?

[gsuteke]

Is the east so strong that a 50 win season only gets us 4th place?

I believe so. The East had a bad reputation for years but it's come back. Orlando, Cleveland, and Boston all have stacked teams and will win 50+. So will the Hawks which some posters on here have a hard time comprehending.

SHould you hate on the Hawks who win 50+ games with a young team but they don't have Kevin Garnett or LBJ or Dwight? That's your conundrum as a Hawks fan.

Are you a Hater or a Supporter?

[thescout5]

The only one of those teams that I would say REALLY got better was orlando. They actually added some depth to their bench and just replaced the one player that they lost. Boston got a pretty good player (he's old) but they may lose some of their depth off that bench(Big baby, Powe, Moore). They're all a year older (bad for them) and we're also a year older (good for us). Cleveland got Shaq, ok........... Big name but doesn't really mean much. They're still slow, maybe slower and shaq clogs the lane and takes away some driving lanes from LJ which was there because big Z was able to stretch the defense. Now to address OUR team.......Josh was hurt for most of the year which was the reason for his drop in stats, Marvin improved his shooting and stepped up in games when it was called for..I really think that he will have a breakout year (no reason, just a feeling). Joe was ran into the ground the last 2 years and I really think fatigue had alot to do with his production (I think Craw gets him a lil more rest). But really y in the heck would u think that this team has maxed out? Thats just dumb. So Kobe was as good as he was going to be 7 or 8 years ago right? Tim Duncan was at his max his rookie year correct? MJ was his best in the 80s, he just happen to win 6 rings in the 90s because he was lucky right? Negativity sometimes just gets in the way of common sense and it seems to do that alot with you.

It's hard to predict what the Hawks will do even in the reg season. I can see 50 wins but at the same time other teams have got better.The Hawks have been together long enough we should see some semblance of a offense that knows how to find the open man and make easy points. What I saw vs Cleveland it seems the Hawks were the best of a weak crop of teams going against Cleveland and Orlando. I think the Celtics will be back to their own standards. It's going to be interesting to see the Hawks this year and see if they progress. If they don't better believer woody will be out and I could see this team undergo some big changes. Teams that get far in the playoffs have some of the best players in the league.I doubt if Smoove were on Orlando,Cleveland, Lakers, Spurs etc he would be a 1 or 2 option.

JJ had a bad year but how many teams have their no1 option as a shooting guard? The Lakers have Kobe but Kobe can drive the ball and score.Cleveland as L ebron and he can do the same. Winning in the playoffs starts in the front court and the Hawks haven't done anything to improve winning the war in the paint. Teams that rely on jump shooting in the playoffs usually fold and thats what I see the Hawks doing once their in the playoffs. The fundamentals of the team and to many low IQ players I simply don't see this team advancing past the 2nd round next year if that.

[RedDawg#8]

I think that the simple fact that our road record was horrible and that usually improves with experience bodes well for us.

If we can win closer to half of our road games we are at 50 wins easily

Some things to keep in mind though, aside from Bibby and Horford who maintained, all other Hawks starters had a statistically worse year. We also had the injury issue. I doubt that both those things re-occur this year. I expect that Smith, Horford and Marv improve stat wise, and Bibby regress a little with Crawford cutting into his production. JJ will prolly maintain.

If Smith alone can go back to his 07-08 level, we become very strong.

One thing we have still yet to do is play to our strengths. we to often play to other teams abilties. When we can start taking advantage of the mismatches we have against EVERY team, we will be tough beat period.

Overall, things are looking UP, there are more positive things about this team than negative.

[Plainview1981]

The only one of those teams that I would say REALLY got better was orlando. They actually added some depth to their bench and just replaced the one player that they lost. Boston got a pretty good player (he's old) but they may lose some of their depth off that bench(Big baby, Powe, Moore). They're all a year older (bad for them) and we're also a year older (good for us). Cleveland got Shaq, ok........... Big name but doesn't really mean much. They're still slow, maybe slower and shaq clogs the lane and takes away some driving lanes from LJ which was there because big Z was able to stretch the defense. Now to address OUR team.......Josh was hurt for most of the year which was the reason for his drop in stats, Marvin improved his shooting and stepped up in games when it was called for..I really think that he will have a breakout year (no reason, just a feeling). Joe was ran into the ground the last 2 years and I really think fatigue had alot to do with his production (I think Craw gets him a lil more rest). But really y in the heck would u think that this team has maxed out? Thats just dumb. So Kobe was as good as he was going to be 7 or 8 years ago right? Tim Duncan was at his max his rookie year correct? MJ was his best in the 80s, he just happen to win 6 rings in the 90s because he was lucky right? Negativity sometimes just gets in the way of common sense and it seems to do that alot with you.

Washington has made trades.... The cavs got Shaq for basically nothing and he has always given the Hawks problems.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281119001

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281129027

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290210001

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290302027

This team barely squeaked by Washington in 3 out of the 4 games last year. And they were the worst team in the league last year.Now they will be better coached, they will have Gilbert back, and they've added Miller and Foye. Sweeping them isn;t anywhere near as likely this season. The east has improved enough and this team has improved so little that it will cost the team a win here and there. At the end of the season, it adds up. You call it negativity... Why don't you see other people thinking the Hawks have a shot at 3rd seed?

[Plainview1981]

If you want to be taken seriously on this site I suggest you start posting with a more even tempered point of view.

I'm not going to fool myself into thinking this team is better than it really is.

First of all no player on the Hawks has reached his NBA Prime in respect to age outside of Joe who is just entering it and Bibby. This team is growing from within on a year to year basis as their improvement in the Win/Loss column year over year over year proves.

How has Josh Smith's PRODUCTION really improved? Same for Marvin. The production (which is really what matters} of these guys is not really improving. Al was no better last year than he was as a rookie.

Secondly what contender isn't capped out? Only 3 or 4 teams every year have the cap room to sign a difference making player, i.e. a "Max Contract" guy like Bosh or LBJ. Coincidentally teams like Memphis are in that category every year and they're not spending money. Therefore your argument about the Hawks and their cap space is extremely disingenuous.

Contenders can afford to be capped out.... cause they're contenders. this team is not a contender. They're not even in the same ballpark. This team finished 12 games behind 3rd place Orlando. 12 games. It's not like this team was close to Orlando last year.

Third does anyone here think an injury depleted Hawks team wouldn't have taken care of the Bulls? Seriously, Dwayne Wade is good enough to win a series all on his own.

This team barely got by Miami's awful team. Wade will not beat a good team by himself. Not with that roster Miami has. The Hawks were downright awful in half that series against a 1 man team. That was one of the worst first round series ever.

My suggestion to you Hotlanta is to find a team you like. When you find that team post on their board.

I know it sounds cliche... But history sometimes repeats it's self. AND this team is headed toward the same path as they did in the late 90's.

If I'm not mistaken, I predicted 45 wins before the start of last season and that was pretty close to what this team did.

This team can't keep failing to address it's weak links and not pay the price for it sooner or later. Keeping Woody and not adding legit big men is going to kick this team in the butt before long.

I treat the Titans the same way I do this team. The titan have the same problem. A cheap front office (How else do you keep Kerry Collins as your starting QB?)

If somehow this team improves this season, I'll feel a lot better about where they're at.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[TheTrueSiete]

I believe so. The East had a bad reputation for years but it's come back. Orlando, Cleveland, and Boston all have stacked teams and will win 50+. So will the Hawks which some posters on here have a hard time comprehending.

SHould you hate on the Hawks who win 50+ games with a young team but they don't have Kevin Garnett or LBJ or Dwight? That's your conundrum as a Hawks fan.

Are you a Hater or a Supporter?

Thats a question that I think a few posters on this board should ask themselves... Maybe put up a poll...

7

[Admin]

Thats a question that I think a few posters on this board should ask themselves... Maybe put up a poll...

7

Put up a poll to determine whether Hotlanta is a hater or a supporter?

It's obvious based on the fact that he comes here every day to post that he is a supporter of the Hawks. It may be negative support the majority of the time but it's still support and I don't think that makes him a hater, just negative.