What is Jamal Crawford?

[DrReality]

Sweet moves. I think he can make a place ofr himself as 6th man and not have to 'compete' with JJ.

[mrhonline]

I respect Diesel's belief that volume scorers can be valuable, but you cannot ignore efficiency.

That's where true shooting (TS) % comes into play. It adjusts a players shooting efficiency for the value of the shot.

To get an idea of a player's true volume scoring ability, I multiplied their TS% by the maximum value of their shots (i.e., how many points they would have scored had they hit all of their shots). I then adjusted the numbers to fit a per36 scale.

Note: this stat will slightly undervalue players who hit more technical FT's than others, as well as those who get a lot of And-1 FT attempts. It is probably reasonable to assume that Bibby, JJ, and Smith are "slightly" undervalued.

JJ --> 22.32

Flip --> 20.42

Bibby --> 18.60

Smith --> 16.95

Marvin --> 16.39

Evans --> 14.01

Horford --> 12.60

Zaza --> 12.16

In terms of volume scoring ability, you can see the obvious that JJ is the best scorer on the team. Bibby's preference for the outside shot means he's not a "true" 2nd option, but he scores that way. Smith and Marvin are comparable offensively. (Yes, I just suggested that Smith and Marvin are comparable offensively - in Woody's system). The Hawks obviously need to do a better job of getting Horford the ball in a position to score.

Where does Crawford fit in this list (after adjusting for pace)?

20.58

What does that mean? It means that Crawford is essentially as effective, but not much more, than Flip was last year.

[tremor]

Interesting stats from Crawford's last season:

         FG%  3P%

wins     44%   41% 

losses   39%   33%

[/code]


JJ's numbers for comparison:

[code]

         FG%  3P%

wins     45%   38% 

losses   42%   34%

Crawford is very streaky shooter, will frustrate us many times during upcoming season.

Both shoot much better when they're rested, esp. JJ 3 Pt shooting differs dramatically: 31% when playing day after day vs 44% with 3+ days rest! So there's hoping they can help each other in that regard (you hear me Woody!).

Edited August 1, 2009 by tremor

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Interesting stats from Crawford's last season:

         FG%  3P%

wins     44%   41% 

losses   39%   33%

[/code]


JJ's numbers for comparison:

[code]

         FG%  3P%

wins     45%   38% 

losses   42%   34%

Crawford is very streaky shooter, will frustrate us many times during upcoming season.

Both shoot much better when they're rested, esp. JJ 3 Pt shooting differs dramatically: 31% when playing day after day vs 44% with 3+ days rest! So there's hoping they can help each other in that regard (you hear me Woody!).

That's the hope for Crawford . . that he can pick up the slack when JJ is having an off night. But there's no denying that Crawford is not only a volume shooter, but a streaky shooter at that. And until he starts proving that he can be a consistent shooter, Woody has to limit his minutes according to how well he's shooting. He can't get time, just to be getting time, because his presence on the floor will KILL YOU if his shot isn't going. I want Crawford taking no more than 13 shots a game ( and even that may be too many ).

People love referencing that 50 point game @ Charlotte he had last year. But to illustrate just how streaky he really is, they fail to mention that he went 3 - 15 FG for 6 points the night before in Atlanta . . . and 7 - 21 FG for 18 points 2 nights after the Charlotte game in Orlando.

He shoots 17-18 FTs in the Charlotte game . . but only shoots a TOTAL of 2 FTs in the ATL and Orlando game combined.

He's the poster child for streakyness

Edited August 1, 2009 by northcyde

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And he needs to raise that NJSI above a .750 index. Every "shooter" on the Hawks last year was above a .750 index. Crawford came in at .738. Smith was .621. Both guys just need to take the ball to the hole, or lay off the 3-ball, if the shot isn't falling.

[Crank]

I respect Diesel's belief that volume scorers can be valuable, but you cannot ignore efficiency.

That's where true shooting (TS) % comes into play. It adjusts a players shooting efficiency for the value of the shot.

To get an idea of a player's true volume scoring ability, I multiplied their TS% by the maximum value of their shots (i.e., how many points they would have scored had they hit all of their shots). I then adjusted the numbers to fit a per36 scale.

Note: this stat will slightly undervalue players who hit more technical FT's than others, as well as those who get a lot of And-1 FT attempts. It is probably reasonable to assume that Bibby, JJ, and Smith are "slightly" undervalued.

JJ --> 22.32

Flip --> 20.42

Bibby --> 18.60

Smith --> 16.95

Marvin --> 16.39

Evans --> 14.01

Horford --> 12.60

Zaza --> 12.16

In terms of volume scoring ability, you can see the obvious that JJ is the best scorer on the team. Bibby's preference for the outside shot means he's not a "true" 2nd option, but he scores that way. Smith and Marvin are comparable offensively. (Yes, I just suggested that Smith and Marvin are comparable offensively - in Woody's system). The Hawks obviously need to do a better job of getting Horford the ball in a position to score.

Where does Crawford fit in this list (after adjusting for pace)?

20.58

What does that mean? It means that Crawford is essentially as effective, but not much more, than Flip was last year.

good post but here is the problem . Flip was given a small specific role off the bench where as Crawford was given a role similar to JJ's on almost every teams hes played for . That is why the use of stats bothers me so much sometimes . When you have you have the coach saying we need to you to generate offense even if you are having an off night . Do we really think that Don Nelson was focused on Crawfords efficiency when Stephen Jackson,Monta Ellis ,and Corey Maggette missed so many games last year ? Was he saying ok jamal you missed your last two shots lets get Ronnie Turiaf more looks as his TS is higher ?

Ive been trying to get as much info on Crawford as could and the one thing that stood out to me was looking at his numbers with the knicks before he was sent to Golden State .

With the Warriors his TS was 54% while with the knicks it was 57% playing in Mike D'antonis system that emphasized finding the open man and taking and making the open shot.

with the knicks 52% of his jumpshots were assisted and his efg% was 54%

With the Warriors 39% of his jumpshots were assisted and his efg% was 44%

Its only a small sample but I would say that how well Crawford does is entirely up to how Woody and what demands he makes upon Crawford and the team right from the start.

[Crank]

That's the hope for Crawford . . that he can pick up the slack when JJ is having an off night. But there's no denying that Crawford is not only a volume shooter, but a streaky shooter at that. And until he starts proving that he can be a consistent shooter, Woody has to limit his minutes according to how well he's shooting. He can't get time, just to be getting time, because his presence on the floor will KILL YOU if his shot isn't going. I want Crawford taking no more than 13 shots a game ( and even that may be too many ).

People love referencing that 50 point game @ Charlotte he had last year. But to illustrate just how streaky he really is, they fail to mention that he went 3 - 15 FG for 6 points the night before in Atlanta . . . and 7 - 21 FG for 18 points 2 nights after the Charlotte game in Orlando.

He shoots 17-18 FTs in the Charlotte game . . but only shoots a TOTAL of 2 FTs in the ATL and Orlando game combined.

He's the poster child for streakyness

actually I saw that myself and thought it was strange and then I read that he wouldnt have played in any of those games because of a injured groin muscle but only played because Stephen jackson and Corey maggette were already missing from those games . He played in the Orlando game but then missed the following games against the Heat and Boston as the warriors from looking at their schedule was in the mdist of a 5 game east coast road trip.

[pimp]

52 PTS VS Miami

[mrhonline]

Interesting stats from Crawford's last season:

          FG%  3P%

 wins     44%   41% 

 losses   39%   33%

 [/code]


JJ's numbers for comparison:

[code]

          FG%  3P%

 wins     45%   38% 

 losses   42%   34%

 

Crawford is very streaky shooter, will frustrate us many times during upcoming season.

Both shoot much better when they're rested, esp. JJ 3 Pt shooting differs dramatically: 31% when playing day after day vs 44% with 3+ days rest! So there's hoping they can help each other in that regard (you hear me Woody!).

This is excellent analysis, but it isn't making me feel particularly excited about Crawford...

[Diesel]

That's the hope for Crawford . . that he can pick up the slack when JJ is having an off night. But there's no denying that Crawford is not only a volume shooter, but a streaky shooter at that. And until he starts proving that he can be a consistent shooter, Woody has to limit his minutes according to how well he's shooting. He can't get time, just to be getting time, because his presence on the floor will KILL YOU if his shot isn't going. I want Crawford taking no more than 13 shots a game ( and even that may be too many ).

People love referencing that 50 point game @ Charlotte he had last year. But to illustrate just how streaky he really is, they fail to mention that he went 3 - 15 FG for 6 points the night before in Atlanta . . . and 7 - 21 FG for 18 points 2 nights after the Charlotte game in Orlando.

He shoots 17-18 FTs in the Charlotte game . . but only shoots a TOTAL of 2 FTs in the ATL and Orlando game combined.

He's the poster child for streakyness

I think you need to go beyond streaky and kinda define what makes him streaky? I think you shouldn't undervalue the players around him in this case. Before coming to Atlanta, Bibby was looking like an over the hill PG. This past year, his shooting and 3 pt shooter is better than it has been in 6 years. You can see a similar effect with Flip. I think when you put Crawford on a team full of scorers where he doesn't have all of the attention of the defense, he will hurt opposing teams.

[Diesel]

good post but here is the problem . Flip was given a small specific role off the bench where as Crawford was given a role similar to JJ's on almost every teams hes played for . That is why the use of stats bothers me so much sometimes . When you have you have the coach saying we need to you to generate offense even if you are having an off night . Do we really think that Don Nelson was focused on Crawfords efficiency when Stephen Jackson,Monta Ellis ,and Corey Maggette missed so many games last year ? Was he saying ok jamal you missed your last two shots lets get Ronnie Turiaf more looks as his TS is higher ?

Ive been trying to get as much info on Crawford as could and the one thing that stood out to me was looking at his numbers with the knicks before he was sent to Golden State .

With the Warriors his TS was 54% while with the knicks it was 57% playing in Mike D'antonis system that emphasized finding the open man and taking and making the open shot.

with the knicks 52% of his jumpshots were assisted and his efg% was 54%

With the Warriors 39% of his jumpshots were assisted and his efg% was 44%

Its only a small sample but I would say that how well Crawford does is entirely up to how Woody and what demands he makes upon Crawford and the team right from the start.

I refered to the knicks numbers as well. He had 5.0 apg with the Knicks. People are trying to pigeon hole Crawford as being the second coming of FLip... because you lose a flip, this fanbase think you should gain a flip. 80% of them know nothing about him other than his FG% and what they have heard about his defense. However, he's not the second coming of FLip. His game is more akin to JJ's. It will be similar to having Vince Carter and Tmac (after Tmac had developed).

[jerrywest]

1. Crawford has never played with a good team in his entire career. He is feeling as giddy as Vince is feeling in Orlando.

2. JJ+CC will be one of the scariest 2 man back-court combo in the NBA. Either CC or JJ will be guarded by a weak little guard like MoWilliams/Nelson etc. CC can defend PGs adequately.

3. Bibby+CC will be one of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA. We still need a defensive backup PG similar to Royal Ivey who could pair with CC. Teague isn't strong enough.

Edited August 2, 2009 by jerrywest

[jy23]

I refered to the knicks numbers as well. He had 5.0 apg with the Knicks. People are trying to pigeon hole Crawford as being the second coming of FLip... because you lose a flip, this fanbase think you should gain a flip. 80% of them know nothing about him other than his FG% and what they have heard about his defense. However, he's not the second coming of FLip. His game is more akin to JJ's. It will be similar to having Vince Carter and Tmac (after Tmac had developed).

I actually agree with this, I wouldn't say that he has the athleticism that Vince and Tmac had but he's that kinda player. I really hate hearing people comparing JC and Flip, even if JC averages the exact same amount of points as Flip did last year his impact on this team will be much MUCH bigger than what Flip could ever bring here! We have a bonafide baller on the bench, I'm excited!!!!

[thefloydian]

I refered to the knicks numbers as well. He had 5.0 apg with the Knicks. People are trying to pigeon hole Crawford as being the second coming of FLip... because you lose a flip, this fanbase think you should gain a flip. 80% of them know nothing about him other than his FG% and what they have heard about his defense. However, he's not the second coming of FLip. His game is more akin to JJ's. It will be similar to having Vince Carter and Tmac (after Tmac had developed).

All of this is irrelevant. Even if he was a JJ clone he'd still be better for this team as a 6th man.

[Diesel]

All of this is irrelevant. Even if he was a JJ clone he'd still be better for this team as a 6th man.

You say that Not knowing what kind of Team defense we will play? You're just willing to negate offense for what you perceive is better defense. I think you need to take a stronger look at your perceptions. I mean, why is it that when we replaced Marvin with Flip, our team was better Defensively? I've heard a lot of moaning and groaning on here but nobody wants to address this fact. When Marvin went out and we ran with Bibby Flip, JJ as our 1-3... why is it that we were better defensively? That being the case, you can't account for a good team defense. And you certainly sound like you're willing to ignore a better offense. So my question is what is your agenda?

[HawksBalla]

Another thing is this. Maybe Sund was thinking about the future and maybe a joeless future.

I think this. If/when JJ leaves, we will be able to plug in a 20-point scorer off our bench in Crawford. And Crawford will just happen to be in a contract year, so he'll be balling out. That would also be a perfect time to return Chills as the super-sub to back up Crawford and Marvin, since Evans will surely be gone after his contract his up next summer.

[jy23]

You say that Not knowing what kind of Team defense we will play? You're just willing to negate offense for what you perceive is better defense. I think you need to take a stronger look at your perceptions. I mean, why is it that when we replaced Marvin with Flip, our team was better Defensively? I've heard a lot of moaning and groaning on here but nobody wants to address this fact. When Marvin went out and we ran with Bibby Flip, JJ as our 1-3... why is it that we were better defensively? That being the case, you can't account for a good team defense. And you certainly sound like you're willing to ignore a better offense. So my question is what is your agenda?

Y do you keep saying this? Didn't Mo replace Marv in the lineup when he went out?

[AtLaS]

I respect Diesel's belief that volume scorers can be valuable, but you cannot ignore efficiency.

That's where true shooting (TS) % comes into play. It adjusts a players shooting efficiency for the value of the shot.

To get an idea of a player's true volume scoring ability, I multiplied their TS% by the maximum value of their shots (i.e., how many points they would have scored had they hit all of their shots). I then adjusted the numbers to fit a per36 scale.

Note: this stat will slightly undervalue players who hit more technical FT's than others, as well as those who get a lot of And-1 FT attempts. It is probably reasonable to assume that Bibby, JJ, and Smith are "slightly" undervalued.

JJ --> 22.32

Flip --> 20.42

Bibby --> 18.60

Smith --> 16.95

Marvin --> 16.39

Evans --> 14.01

Horford --> 12.60

Zaza --> 12.16

In terms of volume scoring ability, you can see the obvious that JJ is the best scorer on the team. Bibby's preference for the outside shot means he's not a "true" 2nd option, but he scores that way. Smith and Marvin are comparable offensively. (Yes, I just suggested that Smith and Marvin are comparable offensively - in Woody's system). The Hawks obviously need to do a better job of getting Horford the ball in a position to score.

Where does Crawford fit in this list (after adjusting for pace)?

20.58

What does that mean? It means that Crawford is essentially as effective, but not much more, than Flip was last year.

Flip had a career year and still wasn't as effective as Crawford in an average one. This post also doesn't measure passing and Crawford is easily a superior passer. He's also better equipped for the SG position in regards to height.

I'll take Crawford quite easily.

[Diesel]

Y do you keep saying this? Didn't Mo replace Marv in the lineup when he went out?

We can actually account for the timewhen the lineup had Bibby, Flip, and Joe on the floor.

Our best defensive teams had Bibby, Flip, and Joe as the 1, 2, and 3.

[jy23]

We can actually account for the timewhen the lineup had Bibby, Flip, and Joe on the floor.

Our best defensive teams had Bibby, Flip, and Joe as the 1, 2, and 3.

ok, thank you for clearing that up for me, ill take that but Flip is a different player than JC in that regard. Flip is a lil tougher than JC and he plays harder on that end of the floor. I've said time and time again that I would love to see Jamal and Joe on the floor 2gether but I think that should not be what we start with. Like I said earlier you've bashed Marvin time and time again for not being able to get his own shot so why would you want him to be your best option off the bench, you really dont think that JC would be better suited for that? Being real D you know that would be better for our team having a baller like that coming off the bench and having teams have to worry about one of our bench players, that gives us a dynamic we haven't had in 4EVA! I asked earlier about the last time we had someone like that on our bench and someone brought up ehlo, thats been a good lil min. In my opinion we should leave JC on the bench and have him come in and run the team when he's in.