Did Roy's 80 million set the bar for Joe's extension?

[Traceman]

Again, If Joe gets a max deal, Bibby or Crawford are as good as gone next season!

That's not true but even if it were true....so? You don't lose JJ so that you can keep the likes of Crawford or Bibby NEXT year.

At any rate, we don't have to worry about paying Al until 2011-2012 when he becomes a restricted FA. We can sign JJ to an extension in the range that Roy is going to sign for (that is actually NOT a max deal for JJ as he has more years in the league than Roy and he is not coming off his rookie contract) and keep the core of this team together through 2010-2011.

Crawford's deal comes off the books after 2010-2011 and Bibby will be going into the final year of a reasonably priced contract. We will have all kinds of flexibility at that time to decide what to do with both of those guys. The team should just offer JJ the same deal that Roy got and call it a day.

[AHF]

I am hoping it will be 12 - 13 a year

Again, I would love it if this was at all realistic but this is just a fantasy number - like hoping Lebron will sign for $13M/yr on his next contract. JJ is making 15M next season. He has made the last 3 All-Star teams and will likely make the team next year. The market will be as favorable as it has been recently or is going to be in the foreseeable future next offseason. All these factors add up to someone who isn't going to be signed on the cheap. I would be happy to get this done for a Roy contract.

[Traceman]

Again, I would love it if this was at all realistic but this is just a fantasy number - like hoping Lebron will sign for $13M/yr on his next contract. JJ is making 15M next season. He has made the last 3 All-Star teams and will likely make the team next year. The market will be as favorable as it has been recently or is going to be in the foreseeable future next offseason. All these factors add up to someone who isn't going to be signed on the cheap. I would be happy to get this done for a Roy contract.

Exactly. Don't extend JJ, watch him make a 4th consecutive All Star game, and watch his value go up. Then watch him go to NY for $100M when all the other big name FAs choose to stay in place. Then, we'll start Bibby and Crawford in the backcourt and sign Jerry Stackhouse to back up Crawford.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Traceman

[Peoriabird]

Let me ask you a few questions........do the Hawks even make the playoffs without Joe these last 2 years? Forget the numbers, just a simple yes or no. Do we make it this year without Joe? And finally do we win that Miami series last year without Joe?

Joe is not a max player. In fact he is a borderline All Star. Players like Joe need a lot of help to win Chimpionships so if you max him out kiss your championship asperations goodbye.

[thefloydian]

Do people realize how silly this sounds?

You'd be okay with Joe being given $70,000,000 (count every zero), but paying him $72,000,000 is "overpaying?"

I think you need to check your math. A $2 million difference over 5 years = $10,000,000 difference.

[HawkItus]

Joe is not a max player. In fact he is a borderline All Star. Players like Joe need a lot of help to win Chimpionships so if you max him out kiss your championship asperations goodbye.

Okay, let's say that is true. Who do we get to even make it to the playoffs let alone get a chip if we don't sign Joe? And honestly who is this player in the NBA who's won a title without a lot of help? Not Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq. So who else you got?

Edited August 6, 2009 by sultanofatl

[Traceman]

I think you need to check your math. A $2 million difference over 5 years = $10,000,000 difference.

Still man, big deal. You are talking about less money per season than Mo Evans makes. Worse case, it means you have JJ and a vet minimum player instead of JJ and Mo. Does that really matter in the big scheme of things?

[xhawk]

Okay, let's say that is true. Who do we get to even make it to the playoffs let alone get a chip if we don't sign Joe? And honestly who is this player in the NBA who's won a title without a lot of help? Not Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq. So who else you got?

Not Micheal Jordan either (Scottie, Rodman, Grant, etc.)

[frosgrim]

Those arguing for low numbers on JJ's extension don't seem to understand that the FA market sets the price for a player. All it takes is one team to offer a max deal, and that is the market value. All other numbers are irrelevant at that point.

Now you can argue should the Hawks sign JJ to a max or not, but the facts are JJ will get an offer around the max if he doesn't sign an extension. There are too many teams with too much cap space next year for it not to happen.

[coachx]

If Wade, Bosh, and James stay put JJ may get $20 mill a year from desperate team who sold their fans on the ideology to wait until 2010 and then we will bring in a allstar free agent..............after 3 years of cutting of payroll their fans are starved for anything.

If we could resign JJ for 5 years at $80 mill we should do it today ! If not, we there could be a bidding war for him next summer.

Edited August 6, 2009 by coachx

[Peoriabird]

Okay, let's say that is true. Who do we get to even make it to the playoffs let alone get a chip if we don't sign Joe? And honestly who is this player in the NBA who's won a title without a lot of help? Not Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq. So who else you got?

I think that I said a lot of help not just one other player. Lebron took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals at what age 22? Shaq took a terrible Heat team with one other player to a championship and Kobe really was Kope during the early Laker runs. Micheal Jordan did it with 2 different roster and Pippen. Duncan has a >70 winning percentage as a pro and took multiple rosters to championships. Garnett can't do it by himself, not that kind of player. Wade is still young.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Peoriabird

[Traceman]

I think that I said a lot of help not just one other player. Lebron took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals at what age 22? Shaq took a terrible Heat team with one other player to a championship and Kobe really was Kope during the early Laker runs. Micheal Jordan did it with 2 different roster and Pippen. Duncan has a >70 winning percentage as a pro and took multiple rosters to championships. Garnett can't do it by himself, not that kind of player. Wade is still young.

LOL! Saying "Shaq took a terrible Heat team with one other player to a championship" is like saying Pippen took a terrible Bulls team with one other player to a championship! Dwyane Wade averaged 35 ppg, 8 rbg, 4 apg, 3 spg and 1 bpg in the Finals. Shaq averaged 14 ppg, 10 rbg, 3 apg, .5 spg and 1 bpg.

[chico1]

Roy's new contract will make no difference on what joe will get. Joe has a lot of leverage as he is going to be in demand next summer. Specially if Lebron and Wade decide to stay in their respective teams.

[HawkItus]

I think that I said a lot of help not just one other player. Lebron took a terrible Cleveland team to the finals at what age 22? Shaq took a terrible Heat team with one other player to a championship and Kobe really was Kope during the early Laker runs. Micheal Jordan did it with 2 different roster and Pippen. Duncan has a >70 winning percentage as a pro and took multiple rosters to championships. Garnett can't do it by himself, not that kind of player. Wade is still young.

Okay, I'll humor you on Lebron and Shaq. Can you honestly say we have any chance of getting them? Micheal Jordan, retired. See this is where your argument dies. Beyond those 3 players Joe is not alone in needing help to win a title. If the team had of drafted better he would either be playing with Chris Paul or Brandon Roy. I think either of those combined with Joe would put us pretty close to tops in the East right now.

[Sasquatch]

Okay, let's say that is true. Who do we get to even make it to the playoffs let alone get a chip if we don't sign Joe? And honestly who is this player in the NBA who's won a title without a lot of help? Not Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq. So who else you got?

Thank you.

I wish people would realize that Joe is actually being gracious by being open to discussion. He knows he is going to get his money. Whatever he agrees to early will likely be less than he would get if he waited until the end of next year. I do not think Lebron is even entertaining any talks of extension.

I appreciate Joe.

[Peoriabird]

Okay, I'll humor you on Lebron and Shaq. Can you honestly say we have any chance of getting them? Micheal Jordan, retired. See this is where your argument dies. Beyond those 3 players Joe is not alone in needing help to win a title. If the team had of drafted better he would either be playing with Chris Paul or Brandon Roy. I think either of those combined with Joe would put us pretty close to tops in the East right now.

My point is not about whether Lebron or Shaq will come to Atlanta, rather the point is that Joe needs a lot of help to win a championship. So you don't pay him like he is Lebron because you are going to need to use some of that money to pay the other star players on the team to help Joe win the Championship.

By the way, if the Hawks had drafted Brandon Roy, Joe would be gone already. They play the same position.

[Peoriabird]

LOL! Saying "Shaq took a terrible Heat team with one other player to a championship" is like saying Pippen took a terrible Bulls team with one other player to a championship! Dwyane Wade averaged 35 ppg, 8 rbg, 4 apg, 3 spg and 1 bpg in the Finals. Shaq averaged 14 ppg, 10 rbg, 3 apg, .5 spg and 1 bpg.

Shaq's impact on a game is much more than points, rebounds, and blocks. I hope you realize this!

[Traceman]

My point is not about whether Lebron or Shaq will come to Atlanta, rather the point is that Joe needs a lot of help to win a championship. So you don't pay him like he is Lebron because you are going to need to use some of that money to pay the other star players on the team to help Joe win the Championship.

By the way, if the Hawks had drafted Brandon Roy, Joe would be gone already. They play the same position.

JJ and Roy certainly could have played together. Both guys can play 3 positions. Portland strongly considered moving Roy to PG a few years ago. We have played JJ at PG on numerous occasions and both guys play SF at times. Those guys would be awesome together - an even better version of what I expect JJ and Crawford to be.

[Peoriabird]

JJ and Roy certainly could have played together. Both guys can play 3 positions. Portland strongly considered moving Roy to PG a few years ago. We have played JJ at PG on numerous occasions and both guys play SF at times. Those guys would be awesome together - an even better version of what I expect JJ and Crawford to be.

Roy just signed a 5 year deal worth $80 mil. Do you think that it would be wise to sink $160 mil into your team's shooting guard position?

[AHF]

Roy just signed a 5 year deal worth $80 mil. Do you think that it would be wise to sink $160 mil into your team's shooting guard position?

You and Traceman are talking at eachother on this one. If you disagree with his premise that Roy can play PG or that Joe can play SF then have at it. However, saying that Traceman is talking about sinking $160M into the SG position when he just said Roy and JJ could play different positions for this team is a bit disingenuous.