Josh revisited

[Swatguy]

I keep thinking about our roster and its best fits. I rather have Zaza starting at center than Al. We know Al is a PF.

It brings my mind to Josh. Josh has a SF body, not a PF body. He really is not a tweener. He is a SF in need of development. Josh knows it, it is why he plays the way he plays. I think it is best for himand the team to develop his skills towards what he is, a Small Forward.

He should be shooting the three.

" " be develping his handles.

" " embrace the midrange jumper.

" " pump fake and slash to the hole.

He should develop his SF game regardless of the naysayers.

[TeagueForMVP]

i agree with josh smith trying to develop a sf game.. but i dont know bout zaza, i like horford at C since he is proving he can play the position..

[jerrywest]

I keep thinking about our roster and its best fits. I rather have Zaza starting at center than Al. We know Al is a PF.

It brings my mind to Josh. Josh has a SF body, not a PF body. He really is not a tweener. He is a SF in need of development. Josh knows it, it is why he plays the way he plays. I think it is best for himand the team to develop his skills towards what he is, a Small Forward.

He should be shooting the three.

" " be develping his handles.

" " embrace the midrange jumper.

" " pump fake and slash to the hole.

He should develop his SF game regardless of the naysayers.

Go all the way Swatguy. Wish he was a point guard like Magic Johnson. Don't sell yourself short.

[buckeye242424]

I keep thinking about our roster and its best fits. I rather have Zaza starting at center than Al. We know Al is a PF.

It brings my mind to Josh. Josh has a SF body, not a PF body. He really is not a tweener. He is a SF in need of development. Josh knows it, it is why he plays the way he plays. I think it is best for himand the team to develop his skills towards what he is, a Small Forward.

He should be shooting the three.

" " be develping his handles.

" " embrace the midrange jumper.

" " pump fake and slash to the hole.

He should develop his SF game regardless of the naysayers.

He's too big to be a SF. He shouldn't be shooting the three, unless he proves he can be consistent. Even then, he better be wide open, He doesn't need to embrace the mid-range jumper, he just needs to improve on it and make teams think about leaving him open from 15 ft. Right now, teams won't even guard him. The mid-range jump shot doesn't need to be a staple in his game, but something that needs to be addressed by the opposing team, at least. Anything with driving the basketball, pump faking and attacking, posting him up now and then, I agree!

He's never gonna be a typical SF. In the same breath, he's never gonna be a typical PF. With his skills on D, and his height, weight, the abilities on offense that's still evolving....he's an mix between the typical 3 and 4 position.

It's funny....BK wanted all these guys to be interchangeable....and now that he's gone, even Sund sees that perspective. Crawford can play mulitple positions, Teague too...Joe Smith can rotate from the 4/5.

[MaceCase]

I disagree, Josh has always had PF height and length and has put on legit size and muscle to make him a legit PF. He has far less physical handicaps at PF than he does at SF so I would hope that he listens to us "naysayers" because all the perimeter stuff hasn't seemed to be effective so far yet, through rewatching games, his post game has come a long way.

[capstone21]

I keep thinking about our roster and its best fits. I rather have Zaza starting at center than Al. We know Al is a PF.

It brings my mind to Josh. Josh has a SF body, not a PF body. He really is not a tweener. He is a SF in need of development. Josh knows it, it is why he plays the way he plays. I think it is best for himand the team to develop his skills towards what he is, a Small Forward.

He should be shooting the three.

" " be develping his handles.

" " embrace the midrange jumper.

" " pump fake and slash to the hole.

He should develop his SF game regardless of the naysayers.

Josh is a terrible sf. He has a terrible jump shot, he has trouble guarding sfs, he is a terrible dribbler. He is a slashing PF. There is no question he is a PF. Marvin is a good sf. Why is everyone trying to sit him? If Zaza is to start (which he shouldn't) then either Al or Josh who would have to come off the bench.

[buckeye242424]

I disagree, Josh has always had PF height and length and has put on legit size and muscle to make him a legit PF. He has far less physical handicaps at PF than he does at SF so I would hope that he listens to us "naysayers" because all the perimeter stuff hasn't seemed to be effective so far yet, through rewatching games, his post game has come a long way.

Yeah, he has the height, length, abiltiy to be a legit PF...but there's been nothing in his career that will show us that's where he belongs. The coaching doesn't drive him to that position. Nor does the coaching allow him to float out of the perimeter. He obviously wants to be a perimeter player. There's got to be a middle ground. He's a mix, 3 and 4. At least in his current situation. It's weird, but Woody should address it. Let him shoot to keep teams honest....the midrange game....but post him up now and then. Let him guard the opposing teams PF if needed, but throw him out on a perimeter guy some. He has the physical abilities to do both.

[jy23]

Josh is what he is, he's OUR pf. It doesn't matter about conventional this and that, he's OUR PF. Until we get a legit starting center then Al is OUR center. Marvin is better at sf because he has that 3 pointer, he has that midrange jumper, he has better handles than josh, he slahes no matter how ugly it is its effective. As constructed our players are put in perfect position to be as effective as possible.

[AnakinJoe]

No reason why he can't develop all of those skills... over time in the off-season. 'Nique certainly didn't have all of his SF skills when he entered the league, but he worked in the summer and eventually became a HOFer. Why hasn't Josh learned how to dribble after 4-5 summers? Why hasn't he learned how to shoot a consistent mid-range jumper? All of those skills that you suggest are fairly easy to master. But he needs to do it during the summer... not during the 82-game season. Practice is for learning, games are for winning.

[AHF]

It's weird, but Woody should address it. Let him shoot to keep teams honest....the midrange game....but post him up now and then. Let him guard the opposing teams PF if needed, but throw him out on a perimeter guy some. He has the physical abilities to do both.

Umm....letting Josh shoot from the perimeter doesn't keep teams honest any more than letting Shaq shoot from the perimeter does. Unless one of those guys gets really hot, the other team will just let them shoot jumpers all day and say "thank you very much, may I have another?"

Likewise, Josh gets torched on the perimeter by mobile SFs.

I can't imagine why anyone would want Josh spending more time on the perimeter and less time around the basket where he has a much more positive impact on both sides of the court.

* * * *

I agree with your premise that Woody should address this but the way he should address it is by keeping Josh in the paint and not allowing him to float outside -- not by encouraging Josh to do the things that he is worst at.

Edited September 10, 2009 by AHF

[bonethugz]

the guy is 6'9 240. not a power forward body? i don't get it. how tall and big you want from your power forward?

plus why start zaza? he was fine playing as a backup c. why mess up the chemistry?

[exodus]

Umm....letting Josh shoot from the perimeter doesn't keep teams honest any more than letting Shaq shoot from the perimeter does. Unless one of those guys gets really hot, the other team will just let them shoot jumpers all day and say "thank you very much, may I have another?"

Likewise, Josh gets torched on the perimeter by mobile SFs.

I can't imagine why anyone would want Josh spending more time on the perimeter and less time around the basket where he has a much more positive impact on both sides of the court.

* * * *

I agree with your premise that Woody should address this but the way he should address it is by keeping Josh in the paint and not allowing him to float outside -- not by encouraging Josh to do the things that he is worst at.

I don't get it either. Smith sucks at everything at the 3. He has been in the league 5 years playing big minutes. At this point we know what kind of player he is. He isn't going to suddenly become a good jump shooter and ball handler no matter how hard he works at it. He just doesn't have the talent.

Sometimes you have to wonder what games people are watching.

[hawksrule9]

I love our starting lineup now but I was in favor in moving Smith to SF and Al to PF and trading Marv and landing a dominant C. But I would rather have kept our starting lineup and adding key additions in Crawford, Smith, Collin, Resigning Bibby, Marv, hopefully Joe.

[AtLaS]

Smith is just not an SF at all. Forcing him there hurts him offensively and defensively. Being a shotblocker, we want him close to the basket defensively and not on the perimeter chasing quick SFs that he can't keep up with.

[sillent]

People do not call Smith one of the most athletic people in the league for his size just because he can jump. There are not too many quicker than Smith he just allows them to think they have the advantage to bait them in for the block. Either some of u are new fans or have a short memory but besides last season Smith was a legit 1 man fast break stopper. You can not be slow and block as many guards and any one else attempting to get away with a fastbreak dunk/lay up.

As far as the wing I recall a game against the 76ers Josh's rookie year when he blocked a game winning 3 to dictate and win the game. Maybe some of yall seen the game/highlight this past season where he did the same thing to Delonte West. These are not the only times just a couple examples but I'm saying this to say the only thing that limits Josh at any position whether SF/PF is Josh. Once/If he learns how to make his talents dictate games on a consistent basis this conversation/topic will not matter.

Josh's problem is consistency and we as fans want him to consistently make the right moves at the right time to win games. Yelling at the refs when he can stop the break or set up on defense. Taking ill advised shots(Only ill advised when he has other/better options). Hopefully he practiced making his shooting mechanics more consistent(Any body can shoot so why limit that option for him).

His dribbles really are not that bad for his size. Because of his size and speed it may look a little unorthodox or sloppy but his dribbling skills have been more effective tha we give him credit for and hopefully he does nothing but get better at that.

Case and point he can have an advantage at any position he plays but as for now his skills are best suited for the pf position. Still I would not mind playing him at the 3 or any position that he can take advantage of in certain situations.

[AtLaS]

People do not call Smith one of the most athletic people in the league for his size just because he can jump. There are not too many quicker than Smith he just allows them to think they have the advantage to bait them in for the block. Either some of u are new fans or have a short memory but besides last season Smith was a legit 1 man fast break stopper. You can not be slow and block as many guards and any one else attempting to get away with a fastbreak dunk/lay up.

As far as the wing I recall a game against the 76ers Josh's rookie year when he blocked a game winning 3 to dictate and win the game. Maybe some of yall seen the game/highlight this past season where he did the same thing to Delonte West. These are not the only times just a couple examples but I'm saying this to say the only thing that limits Josh at any position whether SF/PF is Josh. Once/If he learns how to make his talents dictate games on a consistent basis this conversation/topic will not matter.

Josh's problem is consistency and we as fans want him to consistently make the right moves at the right time to win games. Yelling at the refs when he can stop the break or set up on defense. Taking ill advised shots(Only ill advised when he has other/better options). Hopefully he practiced making his shooting mechanics more consistent(Any body can shoot so why limit that option for him).

His dribbles really are not that bad for his size. Because of his size and speed it may look a little unorthodox or sloppy but his dribbling skills have been more effective tha we give him credit for and hopefully he does nothing but get better at that.

Case and point he can have an advantage at any position he plays but as for now his skills are best suited for the pf position. Still I would not mind playing him at the 3 or any position that he can take advantage of in certain situations.

Speed and lateral quickness are two completely different things. Josh's lateral quickness is not exceptional at all. He's very fast which allows him to run players down on the fast break for blocks, but in terms of guarding players on the perimeter he is well below average. He's a much better defender when he's inside.

Now, his first step offensively is pretty quick, but again that's completely different than lateral quickness.

[AHF]

Speed and lateral quickness are two completely different things. Josh's lateral quickness is not exceptional at all. He's very fast which allows him to run players down on the fast break for blocks, but in terms of guarding players on the perimeter he is well below average. He's a much better defender when he's inside.

Now, his first step offensively is pretty quick, but again that's completely different than lateral quickness.

Yeah, I am LMAO about someone calling out people as being new fans or having a short memory and then proceeding to tell us that Smith can defend perimeter players exceptionally well when he is clearly well below average to date in his career. The guy will make some highlight plays even if they put him as a PG on defense but he just has never shown any sustained ability to guard the perimeter (or score from it).

[jy23]

Speed and lateral quickness are two completely different things. Josh's lateral quickness is not exceptional at all. He's very fast which allows him to run players down on the fast break for blocks, but in terms of guarding players on the perimeter he is well below average. He's a much better defender when he's inside.

Now, his first step offensively is pretty quick, but again that's completely different than lateral quickness.

Dang it, you beat me 2 it! :shake_puter: lol

Edited September 11, 2009 by jy21

[Mdizzle5]

no offense Sillent but I think you give Josh a bit too much credit. If Josh was who you see him as... he'd be easily an all-star. Not that he doesn't have potential to be but some of that stuff he just can't do. Guarding guards is one of those. There's nothing wrong with that, but thats more reason why he's a PF.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Mdizzle5

[sillent]

Speed and lateral quickness are two completely different things. Josh's lateral quickness is not exceptional at all. He's very fast which allows him to run players down on the fast break for blocks, but in terms of guarding players on the perimeter he is well below average. He's a much better defender when he's inside.

:bye1: VERY TRUE!! I AM REFERING MORE TO INSTANCES THAT SHOW POTENTIAL. HIS LENGTH, SPEED AND ATHLETICISM ALLOWS HIM TO BE VERY CAPABLE OF PLAYING GOOD WING DEFENSE AND WOULD BE A VERY HARD TAKE IF HE USED HIS STRENGTHS CONSISTENTLY!!

Now, his first step offensively is pretty quick, but again that's completely different than lateral quickness.

DATS KIND OF AN EXAMPLE OF LATERAL QUICKNESS. USUALLY YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR LATERAL QUICKNESS WITH THAT FIRST STEP THE SAME WAY YOU GOT TO BE LATERAL TO DEFEND IT. AGAIN JOSH STOPS JOSH FROM BEING GREAT/ALLSTAR!!

Yeah, I am LMAO about someone calling out people as being new fans or having a short memory and then proceeding to tell us that Smith can defend perimeter players exceptionally well when he is clearly well below average to date in his career. The guy will make some highlight plays even if they put him as a PG on defense but he just has never shown any sustained ability to guard the perimeter (or score from it).

I DIDN'T MEAN ANY OFFENSE TO THE MEMORY REMARK BUT AGAIN I WAS SAYING HE CAN AND HAS :helpsmilie: JUST NOT CONSISTENTLY!! I UNDERSTAND YOU BEING A LITTLE DEFENSIVE OVER THE MEMORY THING AS A TRUE HAWKS FAN SO SORRY TO ALL TRUE HAWKS FANS. YOUR STATEMENT WAS A LIL REDUNDANT AND CONTRADICTING SO I FIGURED MY STATEMENT MIGHT HAVE CAUSED YOUR REACTION. I WAS JUST REFERRING TO THE POTENTIAL I'VE SEEN.:helpsmilie: JUST NOT CONSISTENTLY!!

no offense Sillent but I think you give Josh a bit too much credit. If Josh was who you see him as... he'd be easily an all-star. Not that he doesn't have potential to be but some of that stuff he just can't do. Guarding guards is one of those. There's nothing wrong with that, but thats more reason why he's a PF.

SAME AS MY FIRST QUOTE ABOVE!!