Lets say Joe Johnson dont sign with us next season.....

[sillent]

:question: Now wade plays against these teams just like we do right? Ok so when has his slashing ever been nullified? Even with that horrible supporting cast that he has he manages to get bout 30 7 n 5 per, oh not to mention over 2 steals and over a block per game. 3-5 wins??????? Really?????? Thats how much u think of wade's skills? And that laker team was in 2nd place before that gasol trade that year (i think).....but anyway about the big 3.......orlando is a perimeter team first so i think that adding wade would make a difference there, u act like we've never won a game against them before because of our small lineup.......Boston is a very balanced team but we took that SAME team to 7 in the playoffs without an mvp candidate.......Cleveland would b a challenge but with a player like wade he can take over games himself and win us a couple of games (cough cough...like he did to us this year). Anyway being a contender and saying that we're a lock to win is two different things. I don't think many people picked the magic to b in the finals this year and i don't think many picked the pistons to win against the lakers when they did it. Y couldn't we contend? We have good players on this team, n like i said when u add a player like wade he raises the play of his teammates, u know....some players make others better. We would contend, didn't say we would win a ring but we would definately contend

Thank You!! Somebody with some sense(No offense to JJ but reallisticly come on now?)

Y'all are acting as if Horford, Smith, and Marvin are scrubs. I guess some people don't really know their team/players. Yeah they make their mistakes and have their deficiencies but not many players skip this list especially all being under the age of 25 when alot of players don't even reach their prime till about 26-28.

I will admit Sund is a strategist and Crawford is/was insurance not only for Bibby/Murray but for JJ as well. Again not a bad idea seeing that at least 1 of our 3 young players above should have a breakout season or will be coming into their own as well so it is not like Crawford will be by his self as the star of our team if JJ leaves. I know alot of us are weary about rookie point guards but don't sleep on Teague either. If Teague pans out And Y'all can bash me for this but I'll take Marvin, Al Horford, and Teague over Chris Paul Yeah Chris is great but at the time he would have stagnated our growth and we would have to suceed with less talent. Really we'd be the Hornets which isn't bad but eventually it would be dissapointing to be very good without having a chance to be elite.

[SpartanHawk]

Silent,

I think you have something there....I may take those guys over Paul, too.

[sillent]

See this is where you are wrong and why it's a fantasy. We can't sign Wade next offseason unless he decides 6 million dollars means just as much to him as the 20 million he'd be turning down which would go against everything him and Lebron have been discussing for the past 3 years.

Any trade for him would involve a core player to match his salary and some of his potential considering that we don't have enough cap space to absorb him outright and have already traded away our high salaried deadweight in Speedy and Acie. This means that a combination of any or most of Josh, Al, Marvin would have to be involved so he arives here and yea, no championship unless you think Bibby, Wade, Mo, Joe Smith and Zaza is championship worthy. No the fantasy of trading Joe for him is just as unlikely considering that a double sign and trade is just as likely as me owning an elephant.

After all of this the simple fact that other major markets can offer him his money outright without gutting themselves like his hometown Chicago, the number one market in NY and let's not forget in all this "Miami hasn't done anything" talk that they have zero, count it zero guranteed contracts next season if he opts out. That means they can give him the largest pay raises, that all important 6th year and then just to top it off they can add an Amar'e or Bosh or on the outside Lebron even JJ to go along with another high salaried player in the 9-10 million dollar range (Boozer, Ginobili, Josh Howard, Ray Allen) even if the cap drops to the lowest projected amount.

Drop the fantasy people, unless the franchise is going to go through another remodelling, which management has made no indication of, Joe Johnson is the answer unless he decides otherwise. There is an unofficial 2-3 year plan and if we are not at the door in that timespan then and only then will you see your favorite players traded off or let go unless someone (*cough* Amar'e) falls in our lap before then.

/rant

I Agree with most of your post but speaking of fantasy :thumbsdownsmileyanim: I think u can include Amar'e. How would he fall in our lap.

I think Smoove may end up having the better career because of durability alone :helpsmilie: and Smoove has highlight plays against the coveted Amare and Bosh. Yes he can hold his own against both.

Garnett's considered one of the best if not the best and Smith embaressed (like my spelling) him in a Hawks/Timberwolves game not to mention looking pretty good against him in the playoffs (ps embaress by the fact that Garnett could not play up to Garnett standards due to Smith matching up against him).

Which to me will make a trade like this redundant just swapping more defense for more offense which we may not need anymore considering our new additions and certain players added skills.

Unless u mean via free agency and that would create the same debate as the Wade debate as far as money is concerned

[MaceCase]

I Agree with most of your post but speaking of fantasy :thumbsdownsmileyanim: I think u can include Amar'e. How would he fall in our lap.

I think Smoove may end up having the better career because of durability alone :helpsmilie: and Smoove has highlight plays against the coveted Amare and Bosh. Yes he can hold his own against both.

Garnett's considered one of the best if not the best and Smith embaressed (like my spelling) him in a Hawks/Timberwolves game not to mention looking pretty good against him in the playoffs (ps embaress by the fact that Garnett could not play up to Garnett standards due to Smith matching up against him).

Which to me will make a trade like this redundant just swapping more defense for more offense which we may not need anymore considering our new additions and certain players added skills.

Unless u mean via free agency and that would create the same debate as the Wade debate as far as money is concerned

When Josh puts up a PER of 27 I'll consider the move redundant and if you check their defensive ratings excluding last year they are dead even with Amar'e having the distinct advantage in offensive rating. Garnett is considered the best? Duncan is the best and Amar'e embarassed him thoroughly in the playoffs for an average of 37 points so yeah in about 5,000 ways that move is not redundant. Durability? Amar'e has played 75 games or more in 4 of his 7 seasons. Smoove has played 75 or more games in only 2 of his 5 seasons........

Besides all that if fantasies are the name of the game in this thread I'll at least stick with the Smoove for Amar'e fantasy. That fantasy atleast has a basis in salary cap reality and actually makes this team a contender putting another allstar with our allstar rather than just swapping allstars and thinking that that puts us over the top.

[buckeye242424]

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

The light bulb has come on folks.

Sund bringing in Jamal Crawford was not only to upgrade our team, it was to use him as a "worst case scenario" if we lost JJ.

Crawford being JJ's replacement is exactly what will happen, if they decide that JJ isn't worth what he and his agent wants. JJ goes somewhere else, and if a trade isn't made, Crawford is our new "go-to-guy", because he's the only one on the team outside of JJ that can create his shot anytime he wants.

But back to the topic of swapping Wade for JJ, and that making us a championship contender. That's only true if Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve. If they don't improve, we're not beating the "Big 3" in the East . . even with Wade.

Since Gasol was mentioned, it's the same situation that Kobe was in, before the Lakers pulled off the deal of the century, and got Gasol. As great as Kobe was, the Lakers weren't going nowhere because the players he had around him weren't improving. And their glaring weakness was at the PF spot. So they go out, and get a disgruntled PF on a really bad team, for damn near nothing.

Because the talent around Kobe upgrated significantly with the Gasol signing, Kobe was now able to not have to do it all.

The same thing applies to Wade if he were in Atlanta. If the kids around Wade didn't significantly improve their games, Wade would have to do the exact same things that JJ has had to do for the past 4 years. And while Wade can do those things better than JJ can, his efforts wouldn't get us past the big frontlines that we have to face in the East now.

Orlando: Howard and Gortat

Cleveland: Shaq and Varejao

Boston: Garnett and Perkins

And while people are giddy over the Joe Smith and Collins signing, those two aren't going to be much help to us, if Horford and Josh Smith don't play bigger than what they've been playing. If Josh still plays timidly against bigger frontlines, we're not going to be able to beat those teams ahead of us. If Horford still has major problems scoring with his back to the basket, when isolated against a man bigger than him, we're still going to have problems.

All that slashing and driving to the hole Wade does is somewhat nullified, when you have big bodies and shot blockers patrolling the lane.

So I say if you swapped JJ with Wade right now, and the kids don't significantly improve, you're looking at maybe a 3 - 5 win difference with D-Wade here. So if with Joe, we're currently a 51 win team . . with Wade, we'd be a 56 win team.

But we'd still be in 4th place, behind the Big 3. I truly believe that Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando will all win 62+ games this year.

I disagree. I think having those two are going to be very helpful to the team...(unless, you're speaking of strictly stats). I don't think we can expect J.Smith or Collins to score a ton of points and grab all the boards. But, strictly adding depth, experience, leadership...that's how they're going to help the team. Collins can bring a mentality to the team that we're not going to be pushed around down low, that could trickle down to Smoove, Horf. Smith is proven player that I'm sure, spurned offers from championship level teams, because he sees the talent here and he can still bring something to the table.

[jy23]

When Josh puts up a PER of 27 I'll consider the move redundant and if you check their defensive ratings excluding last year they are dead even with Amar'e having the distinct advantage in offensive rating. Garnett is considered the best? Duncan is the best and Amar'e embarassed him thoroughly in the playoffs for an average of 37 points so yeah in about 5,000 ways that move is not redundant. Durability? Amar'e has played 75 games or more in 4 of his 7 seasons. Smoove has played 75 or more games in only 2 of his 5 seasons........

Besides all that if fantasies are the name of the game in this thread I'll at least stick with the Smoove for Amar'e fantasy. That fantasy atleast has a basis in salary cap reality and actually makes this team a contender putting another allstar with our allstar rather than just swapping allstars and thinking that that puts us over the top.

Although I agree about amare I still can't see y u n northcyde can't see how wade would make us contenders. We wouldn't just b swapping all stars we would get an mvp candidate. Did u see wades numbers against the big 3 compared to Joe? That's a huge difference. We r totally disrespecting wades talent here

[Johnnybravo4]

Although I agree about amare I still can't see y u n northcyde can't see how wade would make us contenders. We wouldn't just b swapping all stars we would get an mvp candidate. Did u see wades numbers against the big 3 compared to Joe? That's a huge difference. We r totally disrespecting wades talent here

If we were talking about Lebron, you might have an argument. Wade's talent isn't as transformational to a team as Lebron or even Kobe's is. I believe Wade is basically A.I. with a better attitude. His style of play is so intense and singular that I can envision him being done by the age of 30.

JJ on the other hand will have a career like Ray Allen and Reggie Miller. His game will still be paying dividends at 35 and beyond.

[MaceCase]

Although I agree about amare I still can't see y u n northcyde can't see how wade would make us contenders. We wouldn't just b swapping all stars we would get an mvp candidate. Did u see wades numbers against the big 3 compared to Joe? That's a huge difference. We r totally disrespecting wades talent here

No, you are completely overrating Wade is the problem. He is not a transcendental talent where he can carry a team to a championship thus the tremendous season yet still a 1st round exit against an injured and woefully inconsistent young team. To put it quite simply, he is not Lebron. This should be made even more evident in that he is considered below him. Look at Lebron's finals team and that is a one man team that he makes better and carries with his all around game. The second best player on that team was Larry Hughes of 14 points on 40% shooting fame rather than a HOF'er.

When North and I read the nonsense that "Wade willed the Heat to a championship by himself" we literally laugh out loud. What was Shaq? He wasn't still the most dominant big in NBA history? 20 points 9 rebounds almost 2 blocks on 60% shooting in only 30 minutes a night at 33 no less doesn't even get you a mention on the DWade bandwaggon? We add Wade and tell me who the hell on the team even has the balls to average that on that efficiency? Hell look at what 'Zo did that season, his per36 stats were 14 points 10 rebounds 5 blocks on 59% shooting....That's dominant too my friend and last I checked that wasn't Pat frickin' Riley either walking up and down our sidelines.

That is why you add allstars to your stable of allstars, the more the merrier. You don't make a lateral move by trading one for the other especially one who individually may awe you but team performance leaves much to be desired. The belief that the others around him will just get better or he is so much better that they don't matter is fallacious. If he was so damn good why have they been clearing out cap space to get him another superstar down in Miami?

[jy23]

No, you are completely overrating Wade is the problem. He is not a transcendental talent where he can carry a team to a championship thus the tremendous season yet still a 1st round exit against an injured and woefully inconsistent young team. To put it quite simply, he is not Lebron. This should be made even more evident in that he is considered below him. Look at Lebron's finals team and that is a one man team that he makes better and carries with his all around game. The second best player on that team was Larry Hughes of 14 points on 40% shooting fame rather than a HOF'er.

When North and I read the nonsense that "Wade willed the Heat to a championship by himself" we literally laugh out loud. What was Shaq? He wasn't still the most dominant big in NBA history? 20 points 9 rebounds almost 2 blocks on 60% shooting in only 30 minutes a night at 33 no less doesn't even get you a mention on the DWade bandwaggon? We add Wade and tell me who the hell on the team even has the balls to average that on that efficiency? Hell look at what 'Zo did that season, his per36 stats were 14 points 10 rebounds 5 blocks on 59% shooting....That's dominant too my friend and last I checked that wasn't Pat frickin' Riley either walking up and down our sidelines.

That is why you add allstars to your stable of allstars, the more the merrier. You don't make a lateral move by trading one for the other especially one who individually may awe you but team performance leaves much to be desired. The belief that the others around him will just get better or he is so much better that they don't matter is fallacious. If he was so damn good why have they been clearing out cap space to get him another superstar down in Miami?

??????????? So ur blaming their first round exit on wade saying that he can't carry a team? Thats y they lost? It had nothing to do with the rest of the team around him going up against a confident team who had homecourt advantage right? Hmmmm, interesting. Then u say that he's not lebron and this is evident because he's considered below him........really Craw?????? I'm sorry but what the heck does that have to do with actual basketball talent? I am by no means saying that wade is better than lebron, but how does what u just said make it more evident? So Lebron has a great overall game but wade doesn't? Y? Lebron did do something amazing when he took that team to the finals but what did he do when he got there? I apologize if I left Shaq out when I was talking about that team........wait.......I found it, I did say that besides Shaq etc........I later came back and talked about Zo (had forgot bout him)...anyway. I believe I said we would CONTEND with him, I did it in all caps everytime I said it so that the point would b clear, maybe i should have made it bold as well.

Would I take another allstar to add with Joe? Of course. Not saying that shouldn't be our focus because thats def what we need to try and do but with this fantasy thread (which is just what this is) my point was that wade would make us a CONTENDER. Oh, and how the heck does Wade's team performance leave much to be desired? Does he have a ring? Finals MVP? How many times has he missed the playoffs in his career? How many times has Lebron missed the playoffs? And ask Damon Jones how good Wade can make u look, GP played with that same Shaq and the great Kobe and didn't win a ring.....he won one with wade and shaq right? R u now going to say that Walker made a huge difference between that team winning and losing? Anderson? White Chocolate? Doleac? Kapono? Posey played well but this extremely deep team portrait that you're painting is just a lil off. They had a good team, def didn't have a GREAT one. And I think they're clearing cap space to get another superstar so HE WILL STAY!!!!!!!!!! But :white flag: I give bc we just don't agree with each other on this one, we see this guy and our team a lil differently so I'll just leave it at that.

[MaceCase]

??????????? So ur blaming their first round exit on wade saying that he can't carry a team? Thats y they lost? It had nothing to do with the rest of the team around him going up against a confident team who had homecourt advantage right? Hmmmm, interesting. Then u say that he's not lebron and this is evident because he's considered below him........really Craw?????? I'm sorry but what the heck does that have to do with actual basketball talent? I am by no means saying that wade is better than lebron, but how does what u just said make it more evident? So Lebron has a great overall game but wade doesn't? Y? Lebron did do something amazing when he took that team to the finals but what did he do when he got there? I apologize if I left Shaq out when I was talking about that team........wait.......I found it, I did say that besides Shaq etc........I later came back and talked about Zo (had forgot bout him)...anyway. I believe I said we would CONTEND with him, I did it in all caps everytime I said it so that the point would b clear, maybe i should have made it bold as well.

Would I take another allstar to add with Joe? Of course. Not saying that shouldn't be our focus because thats def what we need to try and do but with this fantasy thread (which is just what this is) my point was that wade would make us a CONTENDER. Oh, and how the heck does Wade's team performance leave much to be desired? Does he have a ring? Finals MVP? How many times has he missed the playoffs in his career? How many times has Lebron missed the playoffs? And ask Damon Jones how good Wade can make u look, GP played with that same Shaq and the great Kobe and didn't win a ring.....he won one with wade and shaq right? R u now going to say that Walker made a huge difference between that team winning and losing? Anderson? White Chocolate? Doleac? Kapono? Posey played well but this extremely deep team portrait that you're painting is just a lil off. They had a good team, def didn't have a GREAT one. And I think they're clearing cap space to get another superstar so HE WILL STAY!!!!!!!!!! But :white flag: I give bc we just don't agree with each other on this one, we see this guy and our team a lil differently so I'll just leave it at that.

JY plain and simple, Wade hasn't done s*** without Shaq. Argue that all you want but you will be now and until further notice wrong. He hasn't made his team a contender so why is he going to make our team a contender by himself? Tony Parker won a finals MVP too are you going to tell me Tim Duncan and Manu are chumps and it was all Parker? At least Parker did it less controversially but that's an entirely different matter for another day. And please stop with this Damon Jones nonsense, Shaq made him better not Wade thus why Shaq jokes that Damon should always get the dinner check anytime they go out because he was the one that lined his pockets in the first place.

Lebron is better, that is a fact too not because I said it but because the fact sits there in front of my face everyday of the week. Lebron has never had teammates like Wade has had. Lebron has never played with Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Alonzo Mourning, Shaq, Jermaine O'neal hell I'll even throw 'Toine in there or ever had a highly touted rookie such as Beasley next to him yet has consistently performed better individually and dragged his team to better overall records almost every year. Outside of big Z who mostly made it due to the historical lack of depth at center in the eastern conference Lebron has never played with an allstar past or present still in his prime. Lebron made Mo Williams an allstar....that is all

[buckeye242424]

JY plain and simple, Wade hasn't done s*** without Shaq. Argue that all you want but you will be now and until further notice wrong. He hasn't made his team a contender so why is he going to make our team a contender by himself? Tony Parker won a finals MVP too are you going to tell me Tim Duncan and Manu are chumps and it was all Parker? At least Parker did it less controversially but that's an entirely different matter for another day. And please stop with this Damon Jones nonsense, Shaq made him better not Wade thus why Shaq jokes that Damon should always get the dinner check anytime they go out because he was the one that lined his pockets in the first place.

Lebron is better, that is a fact too not because I said it but because the fact sits there in front of my face everyday of the week. Lebron has never had teammates like Wade has had. Lebron has never played with Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Alonzo Mourning, Shaq, Jermaine O'neal hell I'll even throw 'Toine in there or ever had a highly touted rookie such as Beasley next to him yet has consistently performed better individually and dragged his team to better overall records almost every year. Outside of big Z who mostly made it due to the historical lack of depth at center in the eastern conference Lebron has never played with an allstar past or present still in his prime. Lebron made Mo Williams an allstar....that is all

[buckeye242424]

It wasn't like Shaq was in his "prime" or even close to it. Wade won that title with the help of Shaq. How has Caron Butler, Mourning, Antione Walker, Odom, and Jermaine O'Neal really contributed to Wade's success? Wade has always been a "I can do it myself" player. Shaq was the perfect compliment.

That being written, I agree that LeBron is more talented all around. But other than Z, and Mo Williams, who became an all star, who helped Lebron? No one, cause he doesn't have a ring yet. We'll see if an older Shaq can be the compliment to LeBron like he was Wade....

[Buzzard]

JY plain and simple, Wade hasn't done s*** without Shaq. Argue that all you want but you will be now and until further notice wrong. He hasn't made his team a contender so why is he going to make our team a contender by himself? Tony Parker won a finals MVP too are you going to tell me Tim Duncan and Manu are chumps and it was all Parker? At least Parker did it less controversially but that's an entirely different matter for another day. And please stop with this Damon Jones nonsense, Shaq made him better not Wade thus why Shaq jokes that Damon should always get the dinner check anytime they go out because he was the one that lined his pockets in the first place.

Lebron is better, that is a fact too not because I said it but because the fact sits there in front of my face everyday of the week. Lebron has never had teammates like Wade has had. Lebron has never played with Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Alonzo Mourning, Shaq, Jermaine O'neal hell I'll even throw 'Toine in there or ever had a highly touted rookie such as Beasley next to him yet has consistently performed better individually and dragged his team to better overall records almost every year. Outside of big Z who mostly made it due to the historical lack of depth at center in the eastern conference Lebron has never played with an allstar past or present still in his prime. Lebron made Mo Williams an allstar....that is all

Miamis' championship year was a two pony show and the finals were almost all Wade. Now is Wade as good as LeBron, Kobe, or Jordan? No; but if we got him he would be the closest thing we would have to a Nique type player since the human hightlight film!

Wades inuries and style of play worry me; but there is no doubt in my mind he is just under LeBron and Kobe as an elite player in the NBA.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

It wasn't like Shaq was in his "prime" or even close to it. Wade won that title with the help of Shaq. How has Caron Butler, Mourning, Antione Walker, Odom, and Jermaine O'Neal really contributed to Wade's success? Wade has always been a "I can do it myself" player. Shaq was the perfect compliment.

That being written, I agree that LeBron is more talented all around. But other than Z, and Mo Williams, who became an all star, who helped Lebron? No one, cause he doesn't have a ring yet. We'll see if an older Shaq can be the compliment to LeBron like he was Wade....

I completely agree with you. Shaq wasn't in his prime by his lofty standards but 20 and 9 are career highs for most players rather than one of their lowest totals. The argument is that Wade would make our team a contender and I'm saying that he has never made any of his teams contenders so why would he do so for us? Those players didn't make him better but they made the team better outside of Wade considering that all of them have been multiple time allstars excluding Odom. The only multiple allstars Lebron has had are Ben Wallace in his twilight and Big Z. There aren't any other allstars on our team that can be a compliment to Wade like North keeps saying, it would just be him on his own again doing his best TMac impersonation while not winning anything.

[High5]

You guys must be watching a different Dwyane Wade in another NBA. That's the only way some of these statements make any sense whatsoever. Wade is a winner plain and simple, he would take the Hawks to the next level just like he did with the Heat.

[JTB]

You guys must be watching a different Dwyane Wade in another NBA. That's the only way some of these statements make any sense whatsoever. Wade is a winner plain and simple, he would take the Hawks to the next level just like he did with the Heat.

Plain, Simple and very true

Also I didnt want to start this argument but I cant believe how many of you think that LBJ is so much better than Wade! but i know its just you bandwagon fans that gets on whatever superstar nutd the media want to hype up. but hey i m not tryin to change your mind im just tryin to open your eyes cause right now the media is controlling you bug time!

I don wit it though nothing to say but i I'll say this i bet if wade was on hawks and a dude from the cavs board came over talkin bout how much better he thought LBJ was EVERYBODY on this hawksquawk board would DISAGREE AND SAY WADE WAS BETTER.

ANY WAYS WADE HAD HIS TIME WHEN EVERYBODY THOUGHT HE WAS THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE AROUND THAT YEAR THEY WON THAT CHAMPIONSHIP. SO JUST LIKE WADE LBJ TIME WILL COME TO A END THEN THEY WILL BE ON SOME OTHER SUPERSTAR.

OH AND JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT FOR ALL THE LBJ LOVERS AND WADE LOVERS. DONT YOU THINK ITS FUNNY HOW EVERYTIME A NBA PLAYER GETS HYPED UP TO THE ELITE STATUS LIKE WADE AND LBJ DID, THEY ALWAYS WANT TO COMPARE THEM TO KOBE AND THEN JORDAN!

WHEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT YOU A FOOL IF YOU THINK KOBE ISNT THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE. I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY! U HAVE NO GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO PUT ANY OTHER PLAYER OVER HIM! AN I'LL ARGUE THAT ALL-DAY.

(SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT I FELT IT WAS NEEDED)

[EazyRoc]

Some of you people are delusional! Dwayne Wade probably had the worst supporting cast out of any team in the playoffs.

The man is a phenomenal player, and truly an All-NBA caliber player at that. Joe Johnson isn't and never will be on his level. I don't like his personality, but if you swap out Dwayne Wade for Joe Johnson this team would most definitely be a contender. Some of you need to take your blinders off..

Edited September 26, 2009 by EazyRoc

[sillent]

When Josh puts up a PER of 27 I'll consider the move redundant and if you check their defensive ratings excluding last year they are dead even with Amar'e having the distinct advantage in offensive rating. Garnett is considered the best? Duncan is the best and Amar'e embarassed him thoroughly in the playoffs for an average of 37 points so yeah in about 5,000 ways that move is not redundant. Durability? Amar'e has played 75 games or more in 4 of his 7 seasons. Smoove has played 75 or more games in only 2 of his 5 seasons........

Besides all that if fantasies are the name of the game in this thread I'll at least stick with the Smoove for Amar'e fantasy. That fantasy atleast has a basis in salary cap reality and actually makes this team a contender putting another allstar with our allstar rather than just swapping allstars and thinking that that puts us over the top.

Garnett's considered one of the best if not the best and Smith embaressed (like my spelling) him in a Hawks/Timberwolves

If you are going to change my words to fit your argument and not consider the time table than the point deems useless. You told us to stop fantasizing which is fine. If it can not realistically happen ok but than you put the idea in bold above right after.

Josh is a hometown favorite whether you like it or not and could really become something special and may show the complete package this year.

Although Joe may welcome a trade of Amare think of the rest of our youngsters and the chemistry problems that might occur with new additions altering our main core. If someone as gifted as Josh is expendable on this team after all the hard work he has put in who is gonna be next. We can trade for Amare or Bosh and if they go down or get injured we are right back where we started except the expense and toll it would have on us losing a newly aquired Allstar and top scorer. Stick with the plan it will work.

If this was a fantasy league(me personally I'll still keep Josh) than who ever had the best on paper would probably win. When you are dealing with real people and human emotions alot of factors play into that and that is why chemistry is so important. A guy like Wade has a great work ethic and pride to take what ever team he is on and embrace the challenge of doing what it takes to win.

Which is why he'd be a more welcomed addition if JJ were not here. Besides if you listen to some of Wade's comments about our team he always gives our length and talent credit for the things we are able to do or stop him from doing. Which would enhance chemistry or go along with the sayin if you can't beat' em join em.

Again read my bold statement above but if your going to make a change you want it to also be least likely to change the positive chemistry. Jamal Crawford is a good player going on a good team that still has it's core. Getting a player that is not a superb upgrade that will force lineup changes and dismiss key pieces that helped give a team it's status in the first place does not seem like the best move.

[MaceCase]

This thread started off with if we can't resign Joe then could Dwade replace him. Those of us knowledgable in how the NBA works answered that we would not be able to offer a competitive contract for him and that any trade for him would decimate our roster making his aquisition moot therefore being an unlikely scenario.

Then the Dwade riders came out claiming that none of that would matter that Wade would automatically make us a contender despite what it would take to get him would leave our roster decimated. Even if the fantastical myth of a double sign and trade were to occur where we simply swapped Joe for Wade me and others argued quite clearly that that itself wouldn't make us contenders either.

Better? Sure. Legitimate contenders? No. Why? Because we still don't have a dominant frontline scorer to compliment his abilities which is a requirement in this league. Then the riders went looney toons with their revisionists history that Wade won a ring on his own despite actually winning it with two dominant big men that were better at the age of 33 than anyone on our roster is at 23. The looney toons just want to go ahead and say "yea Shaq was being Shaq and Zo' was being Zo' but who else they got?" That statement is akin to saying yea the Celtics got KG, Pierce and Allen and the Lakers had Kobe, Pau and Odom but who else they got? After a dominant THREE you don't need much else just roleplayers.

North and I argued that if you put a legitimate frontline threat with Joe we would actually be better than if we just swapped Joe with Wade. We like Amar'e for this role not simply for fantasy sakes but because unlike Wade, it's actually plausible.

1) the rumors are out there

2) the stories are out there of Amar'e not wanting to stay in PHX so their front office is actually faced with the prospect of losing him for nothing.

3) A trade of Smoove straight up or with minor filler works under the CBA thanks to his sizable trade kicker which bumps his cap hold.

4) with Bird rights in hand we can extend Amare's contract and considering that he considers himself a hip hop producer the city of Atlanta is very amiable to his cause.

Now there are cons too to this scenario.

1) Joe Johnson. Without him the move is mostly moot.

2) Smoove's trade kicker has to be paid upfront which may be an issue for notoriously cheap PHX ownership yet still presents a cheaper salary over it's lifetime than a resigned Amare would

3) Would PHX really want Smoove? In the tough situation of losing Amare for nothing he does present tremendous value but can they do better?

4) Would Amare just say screw PHX altogether and just sign in MIA outright where he can play with Wade AND still enjoy a great music scene.

that's it. Those are the cons. Not something you would say is in the realm of impossibility now would you? Better than the revisionist history going around here right?

Now Sillent you've gone ahead and made the nonsensical argument of saying trading the teams allstar team captain would be less detrimental to team chemistry than trading away Smoove why? Because he's from Atlanta? Does that matter more to teammates that don't care because they are from all over the country, the world even, themselves or to the fans from Atlanta? I'd say the latter.

Now to make this hopefully my last post in this thread I'll leave with a question.

Name one team East or West, outside of Cleveland who even went out to acquire Shaq, that are considered contenders for the championship that have only one allstar player? Everyone argued North down but it seems they are not looking at reality. Off my head I'm looking at Boston with atleast 3, Orlando with 4, I'll say Cleveland with 2 because I don't consider Mo legit. Out west there's LA with atleast 3, San Antonio with atleast 3, Denver has atleast 2, Dallas 2 then the rest are up in air. Now Atlanta again with just 1(Wade) is supposed to contend with these guys? Be real with yourself please. North's analysis still stands, 2 out of the 3 of Horf, Smoove and Marvin WILL have to step up to allstar and near allstar level in order for the Wade experience to reap championship goals. If not it'll just be same story of Wade not getting anywhere with good not great players.

[High5]

No matter how many words you want to use, until you realize just how good Wade is you'll be wrong.

But I agree this fantasy discussion has gone on too long.

Edited September 26, 2009 by High5