Lets say Joe Johnson dont sign with us next season.....

[Admin]

Swap Joe for Wade and we instantly become a championship contender.

I absolutely agree with you and I'm not sure people really understand how big the difference is between JJ and Wade in every measurable "PER, +/-, etc." overall type of metric. I love JJ but we were significantly more talented than Miami last year and yet they took us to 7 games because of how dominant Wade is capable of being. That's just not in JJ's character to take over a series or multiple series and it's why we need a very strong supporting cast and a deep bench for us to be able to win with him, ala the Billups Pistons teams.

[jy23]

I absolutely agree with you and I'm not sure people really understand how big the difference is between JJ and Wade in every measurable "PER, +/-, etc." overall type of metric. I love JJ but we were significantly more talented than Miami last year and yet they took us to 7 games because of how dominant Wade is capable of being. That's just not in JJ's character to take over a series or multiple series and it's why we need a very strong supporting cast and a deep bench for us to be able to win with him, ala the Billups Pistons teams.

Thank u dol, idk if yall r to high on Joe bc he's our player or ur just to low on wade but either way adding him would make this team a CONTENDER! Wade is a great defensive player ant he's significantly better than Joe in every other category. Adding a player like him has an effect on everyone else on the team. We wouldn't b getting the same team that we have now, intensity like his rubs off. I mean he made Damon Williams look like an all star. Besides zo every other player that y'all named is easily replaceable. On that championship team they had,if u put any other player besides kobe or lebron on that team they don't win. Cleveland went to the ship with nothing but lebron, y couldn't we do it with wade n the cast we have? We challenge these teams now without even a 3rd team performer but u think that if we add add an mvp candidate we won't contend? Wade won Miami that ring no question n he could do the same with this cast of players, this is a very good supporting cast they just don't have that dominate leader

[Diesel]

I was thinking...........if JJ hasnt signed with us by now then it looks like he's really going to test the free agent market but maybe its too early to tell. Anyhow I just like other hawk fans like JJ alot

but if he actually decides to test the market I say we go after D.WADE! I mean I do think its possible to get him since we all know he's going to be a free agent cause the heat aint doing sh*t to

make him want to stay!LOL

So say JJ dont sign next off-season. Would it be possible for us to sign D.WADE or Would we have to release another player to get someone like D.WADE cause of his huge contract?

If we don't get Joe, then we need to negotiate and get something for Joe. Even if a team outbid us, I think that every team would still like a trade more. With Craw here we have a very servicable replacement... so maybe we tighten up C or PF.

[HAWKSFAN89]

Well, I don't see Joe coming back next year. And I DEFINITELY don't see D-Wade coming here.

[sillent]

Well, I don't see Joe coming back next year. And I DEFINITELY don't see D-Wade coming here.

Open your eyes to the unexpected this is a new Hawks era we are entering and all of us old Hawks fans hav to learn how to be optimistic again. Things are definitely changing and we hav been routing for the underdog for so long some of us do not know how to handle our team slowly but surely becoming elite.

[Admin]

No matter how much any of us would like to see DWade here it's not happening if only because it's not possible to sign him due to the salary cap.

[jy23]

No matter how much we want him here its not happening. This thread has been a fantasy, that's it.

[JTB]

No matter how much we want him here its not happening. This thread has been a fantasy, that's it.

i wasnt tryin to make this a fantasy thread.lol but i was tryin to get people to open their eyes a little but hey if you guys dont think it can happen then ok but i only think it cant happen because of salary other than that i dont see why wade wouldnt come to the hawks. i read on other post that they actually think he wouldnt come here, i cant see why its not like he's losing out if he came here. but the only way possible to get him is if we trade and that aint a bad *ss trade at all.

oh by the way 2 things:

1.why is it that the lakers can trade away a star like pau gasol for nothing and you guys think we cant make a trade with our star for a star. (and hell if we had to add another player! i would do anything to get a player like wade!)

2.how is it that this trade dont make us a legitimate title contender! uhhhh someone like wade can make a difference. this guy is one of the 3 elite in the nba (kobe,lebron,WADE) he just gets over looked but i bet if he had somewhat of a team they would be on his jock just as much as lebron. an on top of all this i personally think he's better than lebron..........not kobe of course and maybe not better than lebron but equal hands down.

[jy23]

i wasnt tryin to make this a fantasy thread.lol but i was tryin to get people to open their eyes a little but hey if you guys dont think it can happen then ok but i only think it cant happen because of salary other than that i dont see why wade wouldnt come to the hawks. i read on other post that they actually think he wouldnt come here, i cant see why its not like he's losing out if he came here. but the only way possible to get him is if we trade and that aint a bad *ss trade at all.

oh by the way 2 things:

1.why is it that the lakers can trade away a star like pau gasol for nothing and you guys think we cant make a trade with our star for a star. (and hell if we had to add another player! i would do anything to get a player like wade!)

2.how is it that this trade dont make us a legitimate title contender! uhhhh someone like wade can make a difference. this guy is one of the 3 elite in the nba (kobe,lebron,WADE) he just gets over looked but i bet if he had somewhat of a team they would be on his jock just as much as lebron. an on top of all this i personally think he's better than lebron..........not kobe of course and maybe not better than lebron but equal hands down.

Thats what we've been saying, this type of stuff has been discussed before.

[JTB]

Thats what we've been saying, this type of stuff has been discussed before.

i get u but hey theres always a way and if the hawks ever wanted to get him that bad they will find a way!

[MaceCase]

i get u but hey theres always a way and if the hawks ever wanted to get him that bad they will find a way!

See this is where you are wrong and why it's a fantasy. We can't sign Wade next offseason unless he decides 6 million dollars means just as much to him as the 20 million he'd be turning down which would go against everything him and Lebron have been discussing for the past 3 years.

Any trade for him would involve a core player to match his salary and some of his potential considering that we don't have enough cap space to absorb him outright and have already traded away our high salaried deadweight in Speedy and Acie. This means that a combination of any or most of Josh, Al, Marvin would have to be involved so he arives here and yea, no championship unless you think Bibby, Wade, Mo, Joe Smith and Zaza is championship worthy. No the fantasy of trading Joe for him is just as unlikely considering that a double sign and trade is just as likely as me owning an elephant.

After all of this the simple fact that other major markets can offer him his money outright without gutting themselves like his hometown Chicago, the number one market in NY and let's not forget in all this "Miami hasn't done anything" talk that they have zero, count it zero guranteed contracts next season if he opts out. That means they can give him the largest pay raises, that all important 6th year and then just to top it off they can add an Amar'e or Bosh or on the outside Lebron even JJ to go along with another high salaried player in the 9-10 million dollar range (Boozer, Ginobili, Josh Howard, Ray Allen) even if the cap drops to the lowest projected amount.

Drop the fantasy people, unless the franchise is going to go through another remodelling, which management has made no indication of, Joe Johnson is the answer unless he decides otherwise. There is an unofficial 2-3 year plan and if we are not at the door in that timespan then and only then will you see your favorite players traded off or let go unless someone (*cough* Amar'e) falls in our lap before then.

/rant

[jy23]

See this is where you are wrong and why it's a fantasy. We can't sign Wade next offseason unless he decides 6 million dollars means just as much to him as the 20 million he'd be turning down which would go against everything him and Lebron have been discussing for the past 3 years.

Any trade for him would involve a core player to match his salary and some of his potential considering that we don't have enough cap space to absorb him outright and have already traded away our high salaried deadweight in Speedy and Acie. This means that a combination of any or most of Josh, Al, Marvin would have to be involved so he arives here and yea, no championship unless you think Bibby, Wade, Mo, Joe Smith and Zaza is championship worthy. No the fantasy of trading Joe for him is just as unlikely considering that a double sign and trade is just as likely as me owning an elephant.

After all of this the simple fact that other major markets can offer him his money outright without gutting themselves like his hometown Chicago, the number one market in NY and let's not forget in all this "Miami hasn't done anything" talk that they have zero, count it zero guranteed contracts next season if he opts out. That means they can give him the largest pay raises, that all important 6th year and then just to top it off they can add an Amar'e or Bosh or on the outside Lebron even JJ to go along with another high salaried player in the 9-10 million dollar range (Boozer, Ginobili, Josh Howard, Ray Allen) even if the cap drops to the lowest projected amount.

Drop the fantasy people, unless the franchise is going to go through another remodelling, which management has made no indication of, Joe Johnson is the answer unless he decides otherwise. There is an unofficial 2-3 year plan and if we are not at the door in that timespan then and only then will you see your favorite players traded off or let go unless someone (*cough* Amar'e) falls in our lap before then.

/rant

:beathorse:

[JTB]

See this is where you are wrong and why it's a fantasy. We can't sign Wade next offseason unless he decides 6 million dollars means just as much to him as the 20 million he'd be turning down which would go against everything him and Lebron have been discussing for the past 3 years.

Any trade for him would involve a core player to match his salary and some of his potential considering that we don't have enough cap space to absorb him outright and have already traded away our high salaried deadweight in Speedy and Acie. This means that a combination of any or most of Josh, Al, Marvin would have to be involved so he arives here and yea, no championship unless you think Bibby, Wade, Mo, Joe Smith and Zaza is championship worthy. No the fantasy of trading Joe for him is just as unlikely considering that a double sign and trade is just as likely as me owning an elephant.

After all of this the simple fact that other major markets can offer him his money outright without gutting themselves like his hometown Chicago, the number one market in NY and let's not forget in all this "Miami hasn't done anything" talk that they have zero, count it zero guranteed contracts next season if he opts out. That means they can give him the largest pay raises, that all important 6th year and then just to top it off they can add an Amar'e or Bosh or on the outside Lebron even JJ to go along with another high salaried player in the 9-10 million dollar range (Boozer, Ginobili, Josh Howard, Ray Allen) even if the cap drops to the lowest projected amount.

Drop the fantasy people, unless the franchise is going to go through another remodelling, which management has made no indication of, Joe Johnson is the answer unless he decides otherwise. There is an unofficial 2-3 year plan and if we are not at the door in that timespan then and only then will you see your favorite players traded off or let go unless someone (*cough* Amar'e) falls in our lap before then.

/rant

so damn basically if jj dont sign an extension with us then we dont have a star anymore on the team and crawford would be takin his spot! this sucks! i pray he signs back wit us cause if he dont it sounds like were in trouble since we cant bring in another star without giving jj and a potential player up and im not wit the putting crawford in his position thing cause to me johnson is far better.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

so damn basically if jj dont sign an extension with us then we dont have a star anymore on the team and crawford would be takin his spot! this sucks! i pray he signs back wit us cause if he dont it sounds like were in trouble since we cant bring in another star without giving jj and a potential player up and im not wit the putting crawford in his position thing cause to me johnson is far better.

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

The light bulb has come on folks.

Sund bringing in Jamal Crawford was not only to upgrade our team, it was to use him as a "worst case scenario" if we lost JJ.

Crawford being JJ's replacement is exactly what will happen, if they decide that JJ isn't worth what he and his agent wants. JJ goes somewhere else, and if a trade isn't made, Crawford is our new "go-to-guy", because he's the only one on the team outside of JJ that can create his shot anytime he wants.

But back to the topic of swapping Wade for JJ, and that making us a championship contender. That's only true if Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve. If they don't improve, we're not beating the "Big 3" in the East . . even with Wade.

Since Gasol was mentioned, it's the same situation that Kobe was in, before the Lakers pulled off the deal of the century, and got Gasol. As great as Kobe was, the Lakers weren't going nowhere because the players he had around him weren't improving. And their glaring weakness was at the PF spot. So they go out, and get a disgruntled PF on a really bad team, for damn near nothing.

Because the talent around Kobe upgrated significantly with the Gasol signing, Kobe was now able to not have to do it all.

The same thing applies to Wade if he were in Atlanta. If the kids around Wade didn't significantly improve their games, Wade would have to do the exact same things that JJ has had to do for the past 4 years. And while Wade can do those things better than JJ can, his efforts wouldn't get us past the big frontlines that we have to face in the East now.

Orlando: Howard and Gortat

Cleveland: Shaq and Varejao

Boston: Garnett and Perkins

And while people are giddy over the Joe Smith and Collins signing, those two aren't going to be much help to us, if Horford and Josh Smith don't play bigger than what they've been playing. If Josh still plays timidly against bigger frontlines, we're not going to be able to beat those teams ahead of us. If Horford still has major problems scoring with his back to the basket, when isolated against a man bigger than him, we're still going to have problems.

All that slashing and driving to the hole Wade does is somewhat nullified, when you have big bodies and shot blockers patrolling the lane.

So I say if you swapped JJ with Wade right now, and the kids don't significantly improve, you're looking at maybe a 3 - 5 win difference with D-Wade here. So if with Joe, we're currently a 51 win team . . with Wade, we'd be a 56 win team.

But we'd still be in 4th place, behind the Big 3. I truly believe that Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando will all win 62+ games this year.

[SpartanHawk]

I really wouldn't want Wade here. I like not liking that guy.

I still think Joe will resign with the Hawks. From what I read on Sekou's blog, the Hawks are working on getting that done. Based on what I have seen from Rick Sund so far, there is no reason to think they won't get this taken care of.

[JTB]

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

The light bulb has come on folks.

Sund bringing in Jamal Crawford was not only to upgrade our team, it was to use him as a "worst case scenario" if we lost JJ.

Crawford being JJ's replacement is exactly what will happen, if they decide that JJ isn't worth what he and his agent wants. JJ goes somewhere else, and if a trade isn't made, Crawford is our new "go-to-guy", because he's the only one on the team outside of JJ that can create his shot anytime he wants.

But back to the topic of swapping Wade for JJ, and that making us a championship contender. That's only true if Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve. If they don't improve, we're not beating the "Big 3" in the East . . even with Wade.

Since Gasol was mentioned, it's the same situation that Kobe was in, before the Lakers pulled off the deal of the century, and got Gasol. As great as Kobe was, the Lakers weren't going nowhere because the players he had around him weren't improving. And their glaring weakness was at the PF spot. So they go out, and get a disgruntled PF on a really bad team, for damn near nothing.

Because the talent around Kobe upgrated significantly with the Gasol signing, Kobe was now able to not have to do it all.

The same thing applies to Wade if he were in Atlanta. If the kids around Wade didn't significantly improve their games, Wade would have to do the exact same things that JJ has had to do for the past 4 years. And while Wade can do those things better than JJ can, his efforts wouldn't get us past the big frontlines that we have to face in the East now.

Orlando: Howard and Gortat

Cleveland: Shaq and Varejao

Boston: Garnett and Perkins

And while people are giddy over the Joe Smith and Collins signing, those two aren't going to be much help to us, if Horford and Josh Smith don't play bigger than what they've been playing. If Josh still plays timidly against bigger frontlines, we're not going to be able to beat those teams ahead of us. If Horford still has major problems scoring with his back to the basket, when isolated against a man bigger than him, we're still going to have problems.

All that slashing and driving to the hole Wade does is somewhat nullified, when you have big bodies and shot blockers patrolling the lane.

So I say if you swapped JJ with Wade right now, and the kids don't significantly improve, you're looking at maybe a 3 - 5 win difference with D-Wade here. So if with Joe, we're currently a 51 win team . . with Wade, we'd be a 56 win team.

But we'd still be in 4th place, behind the Big 3. I truly believe that Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando will all win 62+ games this year.

good post. i fully understand you. but if sund really did bring crawford in to replace jj, i think we are screwed. i just dont like crawford as our main go to guy but hey thats me. also i guess if jj dont sign what we offer him i guess he thinks he's an elite player now huh? LOL thats hilarious. I mean to me this team is set. Where else could jj go and possibly have a better chance at winning a championship! the elite teams like the lakers, celtics, spurs, magic, and so on have no use for him. unless they just want to beef their star teams up even more by adding jj but in jj case it wont be a gurantee he would start on any of those teams!

[jy23]

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

The light bulb has come on folks.

Sund bringing in Jamal Crawford was not only to upgrade our team, it was to use him as a "worst case scenario" if we lost JJ.

Crawford being JJ's replacement is exactly what will happen, if they decide that JJ isn't worth what he and his agent wants. JJ goes somewhere else, and if a trade isn't made, Crawford is our new "go-to-guy", because he's the only one on the team outside of JJ that can create his shot anytime he wants.

But back to the topic of swapping Wade for JJ, and that making us a championship contender. That's only true if Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve. If they don't improve, we're not beating the "Big 3" in the East . . even with Wade.

Since Gasol was mentioned, it's the same situation that Kobe was in, before the Lakers pulled off the deal of the century, and got Gasol. As great as Kobe was, the Lakers weren't going nowhere because the players he had around him weren't improving. And their glaring weakness was at the PF spot. So they go out, and get a disgruntled PF on a really bad team, for damn near nothing.

Because the talent around Kobe upgrated significantly with the Gasol signing, Kobe was now able to not have to do it all.

The same thing applies to Wade if he were in Atlanta. If the kids around Wade didn't significantly improve their games, Wade would have to do the exact same things that JJ has had to do for the past 4 years. And while Wade can do those things better than JJ can, his efforts wouldn't get us past the big frontlines that we have to face in the East now.

Orlando: Howard and Gortat

Cleveland: Shaq and Varejao

Boston: Garnett and Perkins

And while people are giddy over the Joe Smith and Collins signing, those two aren't going to be much help to us, if Horford and Josh Smith don't play bigger than what they've been playing. If Josh still plays timidly against bigger frontlines, we're not going to be able to beat those teams ahead of us. If Horford still has major problems scoring with his back to the basket, when isolated against a man bigger than him, we're still going to have problems.

All that slashing and driving to the hole Wade does is somewhat nullified, when you have big bodies and shot blockers patrolling the lane.

So I say if you swapped JJ with Wade right now, and the kids don't significantly improve, you're looking at maybe a 3 - 5 win difference with D-Wade here. So if with Joe, we're currently a 51 win team . . with Wade, we'd be a 56 win team.

But we'd still be in 4th place, behind the Big 3. I truly believe that Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando will all win 62+ games this year.

:question: Now wade plays against these teams just like we do right? Ok so when has his slashing ever been nullified? Even with that horrible supporting cast that he has he manages to get bout 30 7 n 5 per, oh not to mention over 2 steals and over a block per game. 3-5 wins??????? Really?????? Thats how much u think of wade's skills? And that laker team was in 2nd place before that gasol trade that year (i think).....but anyway about the big 3.......orlando is a perimeter team first so i think that adding wade would make a difference there, u act like we've never won a game against them before because of our small lineup.......Boston is a very balanced team but we took that SAME team to 7 in the playoffs without an mvp candidate.......Cleveland would b a challenge but with a player like wade he can take over games himself and win us a couple of games (cough cough...like he did to us this year). Anyway being a contender and saying that we're a lock to win is two different things. I don't think many people picked the magic to b in the finals this year and i don't think many picked the pistons to win against the lakers when they did it. Y couldn't we contend? We have good players on this team, n like i said when u add a player like wade he raises the play of his teammates, u know....some players make others better. We would contend, didn't say we would win a ring but we would definately contend

[High5]

Joe against Boston: 21/5/4, 42%

Wade against Boston: 29/7/4, 51%

Joe against Cleveland: 16/5/3, 44%

Wade against Cleveland: 29/10/6, 44%

Joe against Orlando: 18/5/5, 38%

Wade against Orlando: 38/5/6, 53%

Wade's ability to consistently score against anyone would completely change our team. His attacking style would force Horford and Smith to attack and crash the boards. Our shooters would stay open. Now if Joe changed his mind set he could close the gap a little bit, but I don't see him changing after all this time. I'll just have to keep watching the 4th quarter against Boston youtube video whenever he makes me sad.

But Wade will never be a Hawk so I'm going to stop thinking about it.

[jerrywest]

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

The light bulb has come on folks.

Sund bringing in Jamal Crawford was not only to upgrade our team, it was to use him as a "worst case scenario" if we lost JJ.

No light bulb. This idea came to you in a 18th century pre-Edison mail by ship. We talked at length about this after the trade.

[jerrywest]

Joe against Boston: 21/5/4, 42%

Wade against Boston: 29/7/4, 51%

Joe against Cleveland: 16/5/3, 44%

Wade against Cleveland: 29/10/6, 44%

Joe against Orlando: 18/5/5, 38%

Wade against Orlando: 38/5/6, 53%

Could you do the above on Crawford ( in last 2 years - skipping games he played less than 25 minutes)?