JJ played 46 minutes this game

[Traceman]

We all know Woodys aversion to rookies. I think he wanted this win badly and kept the veteran guards in for that reason. My thinking is in our scheme (Woodys scheme) Craw can play PG or SG just as effectively on the offensive end.

If Crawford and Teague continue to play steady as a one two punch over the next few months, I honestly think Bibby could be used off the bench. But that would require Woodson to grow some; so I would not expect it to happen anytime soon. Crawfords defense is no worse than Bibbys, it just comes down to if he continues to play under control and keeps his bad shot selection down. Teague needs minutes and a DNP for such a promising rookie is just another sign of Woody being inept when it comes to our rotation.

We only have four decent guards and it was not like Bibby had his A game. There is just no excuse for Teague not getting five minutes in the 1st half and five in the second....

ONLY 4 decent guards? You know how hard it is to find consistent minutes for FOUR guards (and that doesn't even include Mo). CLE is going to struggle with this as well. I want to see them figure out how to get consistent minutes for all of Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Delonte West, Daniel Gibson and Jamario Moon and none of those guys are of JJ's caliber (where you KNOW he is going to be at 36 MPG at a MINIMUM.

[Buzzard]

The way the game was unfolding, I didn't want to see Teague on Miller at all. Whatever Teague did on the offensive end would have likely paled in comparison to what Miller would have done to him on the other end. Asking ANY rookie PG (not just Teague but guys like Jonny Flynn, Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday and Ty Lawson as well) to guard Miller in a late game situation is asking a lot in my opinion. Certain guys like Miller (Sam Cassell is another name that immediately comes to mind) DESTROY rookie PGs with their combo of strength and savvy. I watched Cassell do that to the original JT, Steve Francis, Baron Davis and Miller himself when they were all rookies and I've seen Miller do that to other young PGs over the years.

In a situation where the game is even early in the game, give the rookie some run against Miller. But in a situation like last night, I agree with Woody's decision to let Teague sit it out.

Bibby could have sit five minutes; his D is not any better than Teagues, so how would that have hurt us? It may have helped us, since Bibby obviously was not playing at his best.

[tbhawksfan]

Shouldn't try making excuses for not giving the rook 10 minutes a game minimum. There is a point in the rotation where he can squeeze in minutes; especially in the first half when the game isn't even on the line and the other team is subbing too.

DNP's are NOT good for young guys psyche. Exactly what happened to Law. Teague is much better, has played very well to this point and doesn't need no DNP.

Woodson needs a DNF : Did not finish (the season).

[Buzzard]

ONLY 4 decent guards? You know how hard it is to find consistent minutes for FOUR guards (and that doesn't even include Mo). CLE is going to struggle with this as well. I want to see them figure out how to get consistent minutes for all of Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Delonte West, Daniel Gibson and Jamario Moon and none of those guys are of JJ's caliber (where you KNOW he is going to be at 36 MPG at a MINIMUM.

Well if Clevelands coach can find five minutes for all of his five, Woody should be able to find 7 to 10 for all of our four...or is that asking to much of our coach? And the point is not to do it just because we have them, the point is doing so because we may need them in the near future. We always get bit by the injury bug, every team does and the more experience Teague gets the better off we will be if and whan that happens. Game speed and practice speed are two different gears. Teague needs some time on the court, even if its just five to ten minutes, every game.

[Buzzard]

Bibby played 35 minutes and scored 7 points on 10 shots and racked up 5 assists against 2 turnovers. There were minutes available for Teague.

A DNP-CD happening once or twice over the season is fine, but it better not be a pattern.

Even 5 minutes is valuable time and it isn't like Teague's 20 PER is so much lower than Bibby's 13 PER.

Teague also has the better assist to turnover ratio so far this year and his defense isn't any worse than Bibby's.

The man needs consistent exposure, even if limited.

Agree 100% and all the people who do not think getting Teague minutes is important, don't understand that we are only one injury away from being thin instead of deep at the PG position. Guarantee if we had lost this game, these same people would be asking why the hell did Bibby get 35 minutes and Teague 0?

Edited November 4, 2009 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I wanted to see what Channel Zero could do against Andre Miller. I figured if nothing else, the speed advantage would have been immense. Just let him tire out Dre for a bit by running all over the court.

But, there's a reason why I'm not a coach.

Dre doesn't tire out. Dre would've posted Teague up down on the blocks, or backed him down, forcing us to double Miller. He racked up a lot of assists last night. If Teague had to guard him, he may have had even more points and assists.

As for "Channel Zero", that's one of the more underrated rap/rock songs in music history. Not a big heavy metal fan, but Rick Rubin's guitar rift in that song was hardcore.

Public Enemy were geniuses with their social commentary in their songs.

[High5]

JJ went 8-11 in the second half and was awesome defensively. I'll take it.

Exactly, he's going to have to play big minutes some nights and last night was definitely a great game for him to play a lot of minutes. If we take care of business against Sacramento like we should he can have a relatively easy night to balance out the minutes.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Agree 100% and all the people who do not think getting Teague minutes is important, don't understand that we are only one injury away from being thin instead of deep at the PG position. Guarantee if we had lost this game, these same people would be asking why the hell did Bibby get 35 minutes and Teague 0?

Nobody is against the kid getting minutes. But after we fall behind by 12 points in the first quarter, and was losing the entire game until the 3rd, it's pretty easy to see why Woody went with Bibby and a red hot Crawford at the point, rather than give Teague time.

Teague needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Bibby doesn't. Bibby can play off of people and knock down shots. So when we're basically running everything through Crawford, Teague's effectiveness is limited . . until he can prove that he can affect a game on the defensive end. When he does that, Woody will definitely give him spot minutes.

I think it was more of the situation we were in last night that kept Teague off the floor.

The decision to keep him off, so that Crawford and JJ could keep the ball in their hands, was OBVIOUSLY the correct decision last night. Bibby playing the minutes he played can be debated. But Bibby's presence on the floor always puts an opposing defense on notice. You can't risk leaving him open for 3's. The threat of that prevents teams from doubling Crawford, when both JJ and Bibby are playing with him. It also makes it easier on JJ.

It's funny though. This is the EXACT lineup that people were looking forward to before the season started. The Bibby - Crawford - JJ attack.

So instead of Woody being praised for going with that lineup . . the lineup that helped win the game . . he gets questioned because he didn't play the rookie. Like playing in that particular game is going to kill Teague's confidence or something.

It's just some in the fan base, digging under garbage cans again, trying to find fault with something . . even though we got a big road win.

[Buzzard]

Nobody is against the kid getting minutes. But after we fall behind by 12 points in the first quarter, and was losing the entire game until the 3rd, it's pretty easy to see why Woody went with Bibby and a red hot Crawford at the point, rather than give Teague time.

Teague needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Bibby doesn't. Bibby can play off of people and knock down shots. So when we're basically running everything through Crawford, Teague's effectiveness is limited . . until he can prove that he can affect a game on the defensive end. When he does that, Woody will definitely give him spot minutes.

I think it was more of the situation we were in last night that kept Teague off the floor.

The decision to keep him off, so that Crawford and JJ could keep the ball in their hands, was OBVIOUSLY the correct decision last night. Bibby playing the minutes he played can be debated. But Bibby's presence on the floor always puts an opposing defense on notice. You can't risk leaving him open for 3's. The threat of that prevents teams from doubling Crawford, when both JJ and Bibby are playing with him. It also makes it easier on JJ.

It's funny though. This is the EXACT lineup that people were looking forward to before the season started. The Bibby - Crawford - JJ attack.

So instead of Woody being praised for going with that lineup . . the lineup that helped win the game . . he gets questioned because he didn't play the rookie. Like playing in that particular game is going to kill Teague's confidence or something.

It's just some in the fan base, digging under garbage cans again, trying to find fault with something . . even though we got a big road win.

It was a good win man...our best defensive effort of the season. Dont read one critisim as a complete hate on the game. You are the one digging for garbage in that regard.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And comparing our situation to Cleveland's is silly as hell. We have JJ, Crawford, and Bibby . . guys who would ALL be starters in Cleveland. Even if you just put Bibby in Cleveland, he starts over Mo Williams . . . and plays 28 - 32 minutes a night.

- then you'll have Mo Williams, who would get his playing time ( 20 - 25 minutes a game )

- then you'll have Delonte West, who can play both the 1 and the 2, so he might see 10 - 15 minutes a game.

- so who's the odd man out? DANIEL GIBSON . . . just like he was the odd man out last year in a few of Cleveland's playoff games.

With a guard the caliber of Bibby, no way Cleveland tries to play 4 smallish guards every night. I mean heck . . even Jordan Farmar of the Lakers got some DNP's in games last year. And he's proven himself at times for Phil Jackson and the Lakers. But in his situation, Shannon Brown played so well at times ( and proved he can play a little PG ), that Phil didn't even get Farmar into games last year.

As long as Teague proves he'll be an asset, he'll play. But no sense in having concern, just because he didn't play last night.

[Traceman]

And comparing our situation to Cleveland's is silly as hell. We have JJ, Crawford, and Bibby . . guys who would ALL be starters in Cleveland. Even if you just put Bibby in Cleveland, he starts over Mo Williams . . . and plays 28 - 32 minutes a night.

- then you'll have Mo Williams, who would get his playing time ( 20 - 25 minutes a game )

- then you'll have Delonte West, who can play both the 1 and the 2, so he might see 10 - 15 minutes a game.

- so who's the odd man out? DANIEL GIBSON . . . just like he was the odd man out last year in a few of Cleveland's playoff games.

With a guard the caliber of Bibby, no way Cleveland tries to play 4 smallish guards every night. I mean heck . . even Jordan Farmar of the Lakers got some DNP's in games last year. And he's proven himself at times for Phil Jackson and the Lakers. But in his situation, Shannon Brown played so well at times ( and proved he can play a little PG ), that Phil didn't even get Farmar into games last year.

As long as Teague proves he'll be an asset, he'll play. But no sense in having concern, just because he didn't play last night.

I agree with the exception that no way Bibby starts over Mo in CLE at this stage of his career. Mo was an All Star last year.

[Traceman]

Agree 100% and all the people who do not think getting Teague minutes is important, don't understand that we are only one injury away from being thin instead of deep at the PG position. Guarantee if we had lost this game, these same people would be asking why the hell did Bibby get 35 minutes and Teague 0?

It's not that it's not important that Teague gets minutes, it just that it's not important that he didn't get minutes LAST NIGHT. I fully expect Teague to get more DNP-CDs over the course of the season if we stay healthy. Hopefully, they will be few and far between but there will be nights when Woody simply won't get all 4 guys (and Mo) in the game.

As for us being one injury away from being thin at PG, MOST teams are that way. The fact that we have a player the quality of Teague as our 4th guard (3rd PG) is awesome.

[MaceCase]

I agree with the exception that no way Bibby starts over Mo in CLE at this stage of his career. Mo was an All Star last year.

It was a joke of an injury replacement, Mo was hand picked by Stern to replace Bosh simply on the basis he was arguably the second best player on the team with the best record at the time.

[Traceman]

Shouldn't try making excuses for not giving the rook 10 minutes a game minimum. There is a point in the rotation where he can squeeze in minutes; especially in the first half when the game isn't even on the line and the other team is subbing too.

DNP's are NOT good for young guys psyche. Exactly what happened to Law. Teague is much better, has played very well to this point and doesn't need no DNP.

Woodson needs a DNF : Did not finish (the season).

What is Hollins' excuse for giving Hasheem Thabeet a DNP? What is D'Antoni's excuse for giving Jordan Hiill a DNP? What is Gentry's excuse for giving Earl Clark a DNP? What is Kuester's excuse for giving Austin Daye a DNP? What is Del Negro's excuse for giving James Johnson a DNP? What is Jordan's excuse for giving Jrue Holiday a DNP? All those rookies have received DNPs this year, all were drafted AHEAD of Teague and all play on team's that finished with worse records than the Hawks last year. Are all those players doomed to failure beacuse their psyches can't take getting a DNP?

[Traceman]

It was a joke of an injury replacement, Mo was hand picked by Stern to replace Bosh simply on the basis he was arguably the second best player on the team with the best record at the time.

That may be so but there are injury replacements every year and no one has ever seen fit to name Bibby to replace anyone in an All Star game. If I remember correctly, JJ's first All Star appearance was as an injury replacement. At any rate, Mo is clearly better than Bibby now.

[gsuteke]

You guys are nit picking a Rookie not playing any in a 6 point win on the Road against arguably one of the more talented teams in the Western Conference.

Seriously, get ahold of yourselves.

Coach did what he had to do to get the W in a game the Hawks were down by 10.

[yardbird]

We all know Woodys aversion to rookies. I think he wanted this win badly and kept the veteran guards in for that reason. My thinking is in our scheme (Woodys scheme) Craw can play PG or SG just as effectively on the offensive end.

If Crawford and Teague continue to play steady as a one two punch over the next few months, I honestly think Bibby could be used off the bench. But that would require Woodson to grow some; so I would not expect it to happen anytime soon. Crawfords defense is no worse than Bibbys, it just comes down to if he continues to play under control and keeps his bad shot selection down. Teague needs minutes and a DNP for such a promising rookie is just another sign of Woody being inept when it comes to our rotation.

We only have four decent guards and it was not like Bibby had his A game. There is just no excuse for Teague not getting around five minutes in the 1st half and five in the second...Who really gives a crap if Bibby only gets 25 minutes if he is not on his best game?

Overly critical of Woody. Last night was a huge win for the psyche of the team, and hopefully gives some confidence going into Boston, Cleveland and Orlando. The game was close with leads changing hands down the end, and getting Teague a few minutes was not worth risking a difference in the outcome. If Teague's confidence is hurt by sitting yesterday, he won't be long for the league anyway (I think he will, but if he's that fragile, he certainly won't). I have no problem with the playing time and, if Sacremento somehow makes tonight a tough game, I'd be okay with Teague getting a DNP tonight if it means a win. I do want to see him develop and get time over the season, but never at the expense of a win regardless of who we play. If his time had to come next year, and a veteran guard rotation translates to a rise to true contender status, fine with me. On a good team, it's not about development, it's about wins. I doubt Phil Jackson would have played Teague last night either (how many DNPs did Javaris Crittendon get in his rookie year, when the Lakers were in roughly the same stature as this year's Hawks?).

[AHF]

5 minutes against Sacramento for Teague? That is more concerning to me than the Portland game. There is a good chance Bibby becomes more of a liability the last two years of his contract. Teague needs to be ready to go by the end of the year.

BTW - Protecting the ball against the Kings?

Bibby 2 assists, 2 turnovers

Teague 2 assists, 0 turnovers

Not saying that Teague handles the ball as well as Bibby - just that it may not be as big a difference in A/TO ratio as some people think.

Edited November 5, 2009 by AHF

[NowYouKnow]

My problem is a philosophical one.

The Hawks starters played like complete and total *ss in the third quarter of the Lakers game and let it get out of hand. Maybe the Lakers let their guard down and that's why Teague had such success, but whatever the reason for it was, Teague came in and provided a spark and helped Atlanta get back in the game some what.

That EARNED him playing time against Portland. Maybe not a lot of playing time, but he definitely earned a few minutes. He damn sure earned more than five freaking minutes against the Kings. That is my biggest problem with Woody. He has always had a young roster in Atlanta and the concept of rewarding a young player for doing well and punishing a young player for doing wrong things is lost on him.

What it has done has allowed guys to develop bad habits (cough cough Josh cough cough). Teague has a long way to go to be a starter in this league, but his ceiling is so much higher than Bibby's (at this stage of Bibby's career) it's not even funny. Woody always talked about Acie Law not earning his playing time, but Teague EARNED some burn against the Lakers and Woody won't give it to him.

Teague is a tremendous talent. He needs to be playing every night. The only way rookies are going to get over making rookie mistakes is to play through them and learn as they go on the court. I really believe JT-0 can be our point of the future, but Woody needs to be working him into games. DNP-CD's are flat out unacceptable, PERIOD.

[coachx]

5 minutes against Sacramento for Teague? That is more concerning to me than the Portland game. There is a good chance Bibby becomes more of a liability the last two years of his contract. Teague needs to be ready to go by the end of the year.

BTW - Protecting the ball against the Kings?

Bibby 2 assists, 2 turnovers

Teague 2 assists, 0 turnovers

Not saying that Teague handles the ball as well as Bibby - just that it may not be as big a difference in A/TO ratio as some people think.

Bibby was shooting lights out against his former team last night. I'll take 2 turnovers in over 30 minutes of play. Right now JJ and Crawford are running the point and every one else is playing off them including Bibby.

This is was an extremely competitve ball game.....We are fighting as hard as we could in the 3rd quarter to stay in the game.....I'm fine as long as we got another road win on back to back nights.