Start Mo in favor of Marvin

[frankthetank966]

Am I the only one who thinks the Hawks should be starting Mo Evans over Marvin Williams? Evan tore it up in preseason and was awesome in October and early November games off the bench. Evans is aggresive and a hustler. He needs to be seeing more playing time. He has a higher career 3pt % and is solid shooter from the floor. He also reads plays really well and is capable of breaking down the defense on his drive. Marvin is also capable of breaking down the defense but the difference is he doesnt do it!

[Atlantaholic]

Am I the only one who thinks the Hawks should be starting Mo Evans over Marvin Williams? Evan tore it up in preseason and was awesome in October and early November games off the bench. Evans is aggresive and a hustler. He needs to be seeing more playing time. He has a higher career 3pt % and is solid shooter from the floor. He also reads plays really well and is capable of breaking down the defense on his drive. Marvin is also capable of breaking down the defense but the difference is he doesnt do it!

Besides two games Marvin has been absolutely abysmal this year. As god awful as JJ was against Detroit Marvin was not much better. I think it was three straight possessions in the fourth quarter where he either missed or turned it over. His +- that game was -18, which is astounding considering we only lost by 6. Having said that, I don't think Mo is really much better.

[frankthetank966]

Besides two games Marvin has been absolutely abysmal this year. As god awful as JJ was against Detroit Marvin was not much better. I think it was three straight possessions in the fourth quarter where he either missed or turned it over. His +- that game was -18, which is astounding considering we only lost by 6. Having said that, I don't think Mo is really much better.

Mo is not much better but its about giving the opportunity to him to see what he can do. That stat about Marv is rediculous.

[Atlantaholic]

Mo is not much better but its about giving the opportunity to him to see what he can do. That stat about Marv is rediculous.

Yeah, it is.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mo get a few starts either... but I seriously don't see that happening considering that we just extended Marvin, the former #2 pick, to a relatively expensive contract. It is now a priority to get as much out of Marvin as possible, and it is very possible that benching him will just crush his confidence even more. I seriously think we should wait for him to get hot and trade him. After having watched him play for four years I am pretty certain that, at best, Marvin is a 15 and 5 guy in this league. His defense is also wildly overrated. Joe has been defending better this year than Marv, and Joe is above average at best on defense.

[HAWKSFAN89]

I agree.

I see nothing special about Marvin and every time he pulls up to shoot i cringe. Mo plays more physical ball and is a solid defender. Mo is also lethal from the beyond the arc...although, Marvin will continue to start, "just because"....

[Eddielives]

Well Shelden was a bust and they realized it and got Bibby in a trade Now if they can do something similar with Marvin and get a solid player in return, I'll be happy. But something has to be done with Marvin. It's so obvious he doesn't need to be starting. The hell with him losing confidence by being benched. If he's got any guts, he will take it like a man and work his way back into the starting lineup. I actually think he would do better coming off the bench.

[DjGrizz]

Well Mo hasn't exactly been amazing lately, but I'm all for a change. Hell, maybe it would light a fire in Marvin...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I wouldn't mind seeing Marvin going to the bench. But niot necessarily because Mo would be better though.

While everyone wants to see the "deep bench" play more, the facts are that the bench ( outside of Crawford ) has been horrible so far. The group of Teague - Crawford - Evans - Joe Smith - and Zaza, are our worst 5-man group. So if Woody wanted to bring Marvin off the bench, to provide potential additional firepower for that 2nd unit,, then I wouldn't mind seeing that on a trial basis.

For Mo, it would give him the same role he had when Marvin went down last March . . . be that additional 3-point spot up shooter. Mo is a better deep shooter than Marvin, so it could work out, if Mo shoots a high percentage on his open jumpers. If he can hold up defensively, then I wouldn't have any problem with Mo starting. This does mean, that Mo and JJ need to help out on the boards a little more.

But if we do this, I want Woody to treat Mo just like he used to do Royal Ivey. I'm playing Mo until the 1st TV timeout in the 1st and 3rd quarters, and I'm taking him out the game for the rest of the half. If he's hot, I might let him go to the 3 minute mark in that quarter. But Mo isn't playing more than 12 - 15 minutes a night, unless he's killing it from 3-point range

And the one thing I'm NOT DOING, is significantly reducing Marvin's minutes, just to play Mo. Nah . . . no way in hell. Marvin will still get his 25 - 30 minutes a game. What I'm doing though, is simply re-defining Marvin's role on the team. Bringing him off the bench will possibly force the dude to be more aggressive on offense and on the boards, instead of just laying back and letting the starters do all the work.

With the starters, he's becoming an afterthought, especially with Smoove being better offensively. And with the arrival of Crawford, he doesn't get the chance to eventually take 10+ shots throughout the flow of the game.

So maybe if we did bring him off the bench, and let he and Crawford be the top 2 options in the 2nd unit for about 10 minutes a game while the starters rest, that may not only work out better for Marvin, it might work out better for the team. This may also lead to the reduction of minutes for JJ, that so many fans want to see.

Scenario:

Say at the 6 minute mark, Crawford comes in for Mo, giving you a lineup of

( Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Smith, Horford )

Then at the 3 minute mark, Marvin and Zaza enters the game, giving you a lineup of

( Crawford, JJ, Marvin, Smith, Zaza )

At the start of the 2nd quarter, if he wants, he could bring in Teague and Joe Smith, giving him a lineup of

( Teague, Crawford, Marvin, Joe Smith, Zaza )

At this point, you make a point for Crawford and Marvin to be the focal point of the offense, maybe until the 7 min mark in the 2nd qtr, especialy in the halfcourt. It's no guarantee that it will bring out the best in Marvin, but it might. And if depending on who's playing the best, you let either Marvin or Crawford finish the half ( or the game ) with JJ, Bibby, Smith, and Horford.

Possible minutes distribution:

PG: Bibby ( 33 ) - Crawford ( 7 ) - Teague ( 5 )

SG: JJ ( 24 ) - Crawford ( 24 )

SF: Evans ( 14 ) - Marvin ( 22 ) - JJ ( 12 )

PF: Smoove ( 36 ) - Marvin ( 6 ) - Joe Smith ( 6 )

C: Horford ( 35 ) - Zaza ( 13 )

Total:

JJ - 36

Smoove - 36

Horford - 35

Evans - 14

Bibby - 33

Crawford - 31

Marvin - 28

Zaza - 13

Joe Smith - 6

Teague - 5 ( just being real about the minutes Woody is playing him )

This lineup is totally dependent on Mo making 3s and playing decent defense.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Possible minutes distribution:

PG: Bibby ( 33 ) - Crawford ( 7 ) - Teague ( 5 )

SG: JJ ( 24 ) - Crawford ( 24 )

SF: Evans ( 14 ) - Marvin ( 22 ) - JJ ( 12 )

PF: Smoove ( 36 ) - Marvin ( 6 ) - Joe Smith ( 6 )

C: Horford ( 35 ) - Zaza ( 13 )

Total:

JJ - 36

Smoove - 36

Horford - 35

Evans - 14

Bibby - 33

Crawford - 31

Marvin - 28

Zaza - 13

Joe Smith - 6

Teague - 5 ( just being real about the minutes Woody is playing him )

This lineup is totally dependent on Mo making 3s and playing decent defense.

I got my minutes wrong at PG, so now I gotta adjust the whole thing.

PG: Bibby ( 34 ) - Crawford ( 9 ) - Teague ( 5 )

SG: JJ ( 26 ) - Crawford ( 22 )

SF: Evans ( 14 ) - Marvin ( 24 ) - JJ ( 10 )

PF: Smoove ( 36 ) - Marvin ( 6 ) - Joe Smith ( 6 )

C: Horford ( 35 ) - Zaza ( 13 )

Total minutes ( just add 1 min to Bibby and 2 min to Marvin, from that original list )

[AHF]

The group of Teague - Crawford - Evans - Joe Smith - and Zaza, are our worst 5-man group. So if Woody wanted to bring Marvin off the bench, to provide potential additional firepower for that 2nd unit,, then I wouldn't mind seeing that on a trial basis.

The only time we should play a group of Teague - Crawford - Evans - Joe Smith - and Zaza is when the game is a blowout. Otherwise, our subs should be mixed with our starters so we don't suffer the kind of talent drain that lineup would provide.

[Atlantaholic]

The only time we should play a group of Teague - Crawford - Evans - Joe Smith - and Zaza is when the game is a blowout. Otherwise, our subs should be mixed with our starters so we don't suffer the kind of talent drain that lineup would provide.

Woody only plays teague when the entire second unit is on the floor. Why we EVER have the entire second unit on the floor at the same time before the game is out of hand in the fourth is a total mystery to me, but I'm sure Northcyde will explain why it is a smart decision by Woodson to do this.

[coachx]

No matter who starts between Mo or Marvin they are going to be 5th options in the offense on most nights. The focus at SF should be defense for this team.

Do you guys just close your eyes when the Hawks play defense ?

Mo Evans get abused by any one 6'7'' or taller...............and that amounts to about 80% of the SFs in the league. If he is switched on to a PF or C he does not stand chance. At least Marvin can hold his own on defense vs. the same guys that give Mo Evans trouble.

[Buzzard]

Am I the only one who thinks the Hawks should be starting Mo Evans over Marvin Williams? Evan tore it up in preseason and was awesome in October and early November games off the bench. Evans is aggresive and a hustler. He needs to be seeing more playing time. He has a higher career 3pt % and is solid shooter from the floor. He also reads plays really well and is capable of breaking down the defense on his drive. Marvin is also capable of breaking down the defense but the difference is he doesnt do it!

Please. Orlando let Mo walk because they did not need him as their 7th or 8th man. You want to make him a starter? He is a adequate backup for us; that is all I hope you expect.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Buzzard

[frankthetank966]

Maybe we will see a change tomorrow night. There are so many options and we need to try them out since its still early in the season. We have dropped 3 of the last 4. Two of those losses came to under .500 teams.

[Eddielives]

Please. Orlando let Mo walk because they did not need him as their 7th or 8th man. You want to make him a starter? He is a adequate backup for us; that is all I hope you expect.

I don't think anyone is saying that Mo Evans is starting material. I think they're saying that Marvin is sucking butt and Mo would be a better option right now.

[Buzzard]

I don't think anyone is saying that Mo Evans is starting material. I think they're saying that Marvin is sucking butt and Mo would be a better option right now.

They are both playing like crap. So do you let your starter play more minutes; or your 8th or 9th man play more minutes? That should not even be a question I have to ask.

[Eddielives]

They are both playing like crap. So do you let your starter play more minutes; or your 8th or 9th man play more minutes? That should not even be a question I have to ask.

I'm not aware of Evans playing like crap. But #2 overall pick Marvin Williams is definitely playing like an 8th or 9th man, so what's to lose by benching him? It could be the wake-up call he needs. Furthermore, I believe if Evans was getting Marvins minutes, he would AT LEAST be equaling Marvin's productivity.

[Buzzard]

I'm not aware of Evans playing like crap. But #2 overall pick Marvin Williams is definitely playing like an 8th or 9th man, so what's to lose by benching him? It could be the wake-up call he needs. Furthermore, I believe if Evans was getting Marvins minutes, he would AT LEAST be equaling Marvin's productivity.

And that is my point. All Evans can do is equal Marvin when Marvin is playing bad. Maybe Marvin needs a wake up call; but I also think Evans as a starter is no better than Marvin in a funk. Evans is only shooting 5 percentage points better than Marvin for the season. And Marvin over his last six games is shooting 50 % from the field. Evans over that same span is shooting 25 %.

They are both in slumps but Evans bad shooting is much more recent and over a longer span of recent games than Marvins; if you look at their recent fg%. Mo has not had a good shooting game since he went 4 of 6 on November 11th.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Buzzard