Will JJ+Josh+Horford make it to the all star game

[jerrywest]

If you look at per 36 minute stats, the only areas in which Lopez leads Horford are in points (18.3 to 14.2), blocks (1.9 to 1.4), and free throw percentage (.835 to .764). Horford does better in rebounds (10.4 to 9.4), field goal percentage (.527 to .514), turnovers and (1.5 to 2.5), and fouls committed (2.9 to 3.3). I think Horford easily matches Lopez's scoring and block output and extends his lead in rebounding if they switch teams, though I think Lopez would end up winning the FG% battle in that case.

Oh, and did I mention that the Nets are 3-34?

People also tend to forget that being surrounded with bad players actually helps you in all non-efficiency stat categories. If you're surrounded by bad rebounders, you'll get more rebounds individually. If you're surrounded by poor help defenders, you'll get more blocks individually. Lopez's stats are questionable in every stat category simply because it's tough to see how much of his stats are simply a product of the fact that no one else is there to do those things and because he gets more minutes (1st in the East and 2nd in the NBA among centers) for want of a decent backup.

I'm not saying that Horford is definitely better than Lopez, and certainly am not judging who will be better 3 years from now (the latter of which is irrelevant in All-Star selection). But it sure as hell wouldn't be a travesty if Brook Lopez didn't make the All-Star team.

Lopez will be a perennial all star from next year. He'll get to play next to a superstar/star (LeBron/Wade/Bosh/JJ). Devon Harris will be back 100% and Nets will be very very good next year. He'll get all the Chinese votes because he is Yi's teammate.

This year coaches won't vote for him. Period. Even Tyrone Corbin averaged 18 points with the expansion team - Timberwolves.

[Sothron]

It is kinda funny how much hate Lopez has on this board. You'd think he was a Hawk! :newspaper:

I think Joe makes the AS game and either Josh or Horford makes it in as well. I just don't see all three making it in. I also wouldn't be shocked if only Joe makes it.

[AHF]

It is kinda funny how much hate Lopez has on this board. You'd think he was a Hawk! :newspaper:

No hate from me. I really like him and have been pleasantly surprised with how good he has been in the NBA. He just isn't that much better than Al this season, statistically, and is playing on a terrible, terrible team which factors heavily into All-Star consideration in the NBA.

[coachx]

You guys are also forgetting Brook Lopez who should be the backup to Dwight at center and if he's not it's a travesty. The guy isn't far off of 20/10 with 2 blocks per game. I love Al and hope that he makes it but I wouldn't want to see him get in over Lopez simply because it wouldn't be right.

I think NJ needs to win more games for him to get condieration.

They are still stuck on 3 wins. No one on a 3 W - 34 L teams deserves and allstar spot.

I don't see anyone hating on Lopez at all............people are just pointing out that teams sucks.

Edited January 13, 2010 by coachx

[Sothron]

No hate from me. I really like him and have been pleasantly surprised with how good he has been in the NBA. He just isn't that much better than Al this season, statistically, and is playing on a terrible, terrible team which factors heavily into All-Star consideration in the NBA.

That to me is just it though: he's already better than Horford and he's younger and in only his second season. This guy has Harris and nothing else really around him but he still puts up 20/10 type numbers and plays solid defense. I don't think a team's record should factor into an individual based all star game.

[lethalweapon3]

I'm a B-Lo fan, just not for this year's All Star Game.

The Nets broke the NBA record for most consecutive losses to start the season and Brook was there for every one of those. He's also a participant in the current 1-15 stretch. I have no doubt that even with better numbers than Al has currently, Al would not get much more than passing mention if the Hawks had anything close to that kind of record.

~lw3

[Admin]

That to me is just it though: he's already better than Horford and he's younger and in only his second season. This guy has Harris and nothing else really around him but he still puts up 20/10 type numbers and plays solid defense. I don't think a team's record should factor into an individual based all star game.

This is how I feel as well, I don't think that he would do worse on a better team, I think he'd actually do better because he wouldn't get as much attention as he likely gets. Granted I only see him when he's playing the Hawks but I think if you put him on a good team that ran it's offense from the inside out he'd put up even bigger numbers. On the other hand if you put Al on the Nets I don't see him putting up the same numbers simply because he'd have to get more of his points from his own work and not be able to get as many easy baskets in transition and from teammates breaking down the D and finding him open under the basket. Really the only areas where I see Al as being superior are rebounding and leadership, although those are both extremely valuable and I don't mean to discredit them.

As far as their record goes that shouldn't have anything to do with it, this is the ALL-STAR game, not the MVP voting, and he's clearly put up All-Star numbers and should be in the All-Star game.

[niremetal]

As far as their record goes that shouldn't have anything to do with it, this is the ALL-STAR game, not the MVP voting, and he's clearly put up All-Star numbers and should be in the All-Star game.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. I suppose Antoine Walker should have been an All-Star in 2005. After all, his stats were better than Jamison's and Pierce's that year at the time the teams were selected (not to mention Ben Wallace - or are you really so up on Lopez or down on Al that you don't recognize that Horford is a much better all-around defender than Lopez right now?).

Edited January 13, 2010 by niremetal

[Admin]

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. I suppose Antoine Walker should have been an All-Star in 2005. After all, his stats were better than Jamison's and Pierce's that year at the time the teams were selected (not to mention Ben Wallace - or are you really so up on Lopez or down on Al that you don't recognize that Horford is a much better all-around defender than Lopez right now?).

What part of it is ridiculous exactly? What's ridiculous is that you compared me suggesting a guy who works hard on both ends of the floor for a bad team to a guy who was a lazy defender and a shot chucker.

And how is Horford a "MUCH BETTER" all-around defender than Lopez? I think that they are very comparable defenders but Lopez has a clear advantage because of his height and I believe he has a longer reach too, though I haven't gone and looked that up.

It's truly a strange world when people think that a 2nd year player averaging nearly 20/10 and 2 blocks shouldn't be an All-Star.

[spotatl]

I think its much easier to put up good stats on a terrible team that doesn't care if it wins. I think Lopez is a great player but I wouldn't vote him to the allstar team. He would have to be putting up RIDICULOUS numbers for me to vote for him.

I have no problem with it if Bosh, Lee, Bogut, Lopez, or Perkins make it in as the backup center over Horford.

[jerrywest]

I think its much easier to put up good stats on a terrible team that doesn't care if it wins. I think Lopez is a great player but I wouldn't vote him to the allstar team. He would have to be putting up RIDICULOUS numbers for me to vote for him.

Durant didn't make it last year.

[AHF]

If Lopez is really that good he should have won more than 3 games with an All-Star PG and a forward averaging 16 and 8. As I pointed out, his scoring has already dropped as the talent level rises on the team. I could accept 13-24 because the rest of the roster blows but 3-34? That is historically bad.

I just have no idea why people would consider him an automatic All-Star bid when there are several players putting up comparable numbers on team that are so much better.

Edited January 13, 2010 by AHF

[niremetal]

What part of it is ridiculous exactly? What's ridiculous is that you compared me suggesting a guy who works hard on both ends of the floor for a bad team to a guy who was a lazy defender and a shot chucker.

Look at the part of your post that I quoted - the part where you said that the team's record "shouldn't have anything to do with it" as long as a player has "put up All-Star numbers." That is ridiculous. An example of why that is ridiculous is that if you use the same logic, then Antoine Walker should have been an All-Star in 2005. That year, he clearly put up All-Star numbers (21 and 9.5 at the time the reserves were selected). According to your quoted criteria - which you never qualified by saying "generally" or "unless the player is a poor defender" or "unless the player's last name is something other than Lopez" - Antoine Walker should have been an All-Star despite the fact that his stats came for a historically bad team.

Admit that the quoted language was an overstatement or qualify it appropriately, and we're golden. Leave it as it stands, and it's ridiculous.

And how is Horford a "MUCH BETTER" all-around defender than Lopez? I think that they are very comparable defenders but Lopez has a clear advantage because of his height and I believe he has a longer reach too, though I haven't gone and looked that up.

Lopez is two inches taller, but Al can jump 5 inches higher, is significantly stronger, does a far better job of maintaining position on the block, and shows better anticipation on help defense. Also, Lopez doesn't move his feet quickly enough to guard most 4s and doesn't have the mass to keep from getting backed down by most 5s. I won't assume that you haven't watched many Nets games, but you should go check out some Nets fan blogs. Their assessment of Lopez's defense is not kind. He actually is not a very good defensive player yet, although he has improved over last year and has the potential to be a very good defensive player in the future.

Edited January 13, 2010 by niremetal

[Sothron]

If Lopez is really that good he should have won more than 3 games with an All-Star PG and a forward averaging 16 and 8. As I pointed out, his scoring has already dropped as the talent level rises on the team. I could accept 13-24 because the rest of the roster blows but 3-34? That is historically bad.

I just have no idea why people would consider him an automatic All-Star bid when there are several players putting up comparable numbers on team that are so much better.

And how is that his fault? What about his individual game, not the TEAM, his individual game is not worthy of being an All Star? He's averaging around 20/10, he shoots an absurd .835 from the charity stripe as a legit seven footer and he's averaging 2 blocks a game on the other end. He holds his own against other top big men in the NBA which we all know Horford simply can't do because Al will always be playing out of position at center.

It is not Lopez's fault the Nets are as bad as they are. They started the season with one healthy starter and still don't have all their guy s back healthy in Jan. His individual play has been All Star worthy and that's all that should matter.

[Admin]

Look at the part of your post that I quoted - the part where you said that the team's record "shouldn't have anything to do with it" as long as a player has "put up All-Star numbers." That is ridiculous. An example of why that is ridiculous is that if you use the same logic, then Antoine Walker should have been an All-Star in 2005. That year, he clearly put up All-Star numbers (21 and 9.5 at the time the reserves were selected). According to your quoted criteria - which you never qualified by saying "generally" or "unless the player is a poor defender" or "unless the player's last name is something other than Lopez" - Antoine Walker should have been an All-Star despite the fact that his stats came for a historically bad team.

Admit that the quoted language was an overstatement or qualify it appropriately, and we're golden. Leave it as it stands, and it's ridiculous.

You do realize that All-Star numbers isn't restricted to offense, right?

Feel free to admit that either you don't realize that or simply overlooked it in a rush to try and respond.

[niremetal]

You do realize that All-Star numbers isn't restricted to offense, right?

Feel free to admit that either you don't realize that or simply overlooked it in a rush to try and respond.

So your basis of Lopez's All-Star numbers is based solely on Lopez's blocks? No wonder you think he's a better defender than Horford.

Please, pray tell how factoring in defensive stats alters any of the above analyses. I'll wait.

Edited January 13, 2010 by niremetal

[Sothron]

So your basis of Lopez's All-Star numbers is based solely on Lopez's blocks? No wonder you think he's a better defender than Horford.

Please, pray tell how factoring in defensive stats alters any of the above analyses. I'll wait.

I've watched both Lopez and Horford extensively. Lopez right now is a better defender in every way in terms of centers. The only advantage Al has is quickness for defending a four position.

[Admin]

If Lopez is really that good he should have won more than 3 games with an All-Star PG and a forward averaging 16 and 8. As I pointed out, his scoring has already dropped as the talent level rises on the team. I could accept 13-24 because the rest of the roster blows but 3-34? That is historically bad.

I just have no idea why people would consider him an automatic All-Star bid when there are several players putting up comparable numbers on team that are so much better.

Do you know specifically that is why his scoring has dropped? Without looking it up I'd say that it's just as likely and perhaps more likely that he is getting fewer touches and that's a failure in coaching and from his All-Star PG to not get him the ball more. From what I've seen he's head and shoulders better than any center in the east, except for Howard, at scoring in the paint and has a variety of ways to score down there and if they fail to maintain his touches when other guys come back from the injured list then you can't blame him you have to blame his coach and PG.

[Admin]

So your basis of Lopez's All-Star numbers is based solely on Lopez's blocks? No wonder you think he's a better defender than Horford.

Please, pray tell how factoring in defensive stats alters any of the above analyses. I'll wait.

Did I say it is based solely on blocks? Is this a reading comprehension issue or what here? Should I have listed every single stat possible so that you could understand that ALL of them are a part of why a player is considered an All-Star or not?

How can I explain to you that defensive stats are just as much of a factor as offensive stats in analyzing whether a player is an All-Star or not if you don't already understand that?

You are familiar with Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo, correct?

[niremetal]

Did I say it is based solely on blocks? Is this a reading comprehension issue or what here? Should I have listed every single stat possible so that you could understand that ALL of them are a part of why a player is considered an All-Star or not?

How can I explain to you that defensive stats are just as much of a factor as offensive stats in analyzing whether a player is an All-Star or not if you don't already understand that?

You are familiar with Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo, correct?

Yup. Now tell me how factoring in defensive stats alters my analysis of Antoine Walker versus Jamison/Pierce in 2005 or Lopez versus Horford this year. Because I can't see any defensive stat other than blocks per game that indicates Lopez has anything on Horford. And even factoring in defensive stats, Walker still put up better numbers than Pierce and Jamison.

So as I said, I'll wait. Or maybe you're willing to qualify your initial statement about the importance of "All-Star numbers." But my guess is you're too proud to back down from what was clearly a hyperbolic statement.

Edited January 13, 2010 by niremetal