Bibby needs to come off the Bench

[NJHAWK]

I know Bibby has had a bad stretch of games but its funny you posted this because before that I was screaming at the tv wondering why Bibby wasnt in in the 4th quarter. IMO most of the time this team falls apart when Bibby isnt out there. Stats are great but he just keeps us efficent and brings our turnovers almost to a complete halt. Mike goes through these stretches of bad shooting now and again but he always bounces back well. He is a clever defender and a little underrated there since most see him as terrible. I think benching Bibby or relagating him to coming off the bench is the last thing we need.

[Buzzard]

As much as I want to see Teague developed (and I certainly do), I cannot remotely endorse putting him in as our starter. Give him a consistent role and do everything you can to grow his confidence and comfort on the floor, but Bibby needs to be the starter for this year, IMO.

I am in the same boat as you AHF. I want Teague to to get at least 10 to 15 minutes EVERY night. Bibby is way to savy a floor leader to be benched right now. One other thing for certain IMO, if Teague is not our PG of the future, we better get one soon. Bibbs game is trending downward quickly.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

To the topic...

I don't think Bibby needs to come off the bench this year. I think the natural progression is that as he gets better, Teague will take more of the reigns from Bibby.. but not yet.

I really hope that Sund would do something like bringing in an offenisve assistant coach and giving him responsibility of perking up the offense. I would like our own Mike Budenholzer...

However, he's not leaving SA. Maybe we can get Carlisemo? or Even Lawrence Frank??

[Buzzard]

To the topic...

I don't think Bibby needs to come off the bench this year. I think the natural progression is that as he gets better, Teague will take more of the reigns from Bibby.. but not yet.

I really hope that Sund would do something like bringing in an offenisve assistant coach and giving him responsibility of perking up the offense. I would like our own Mike Budenholzer...

However, he's not leaving SA. Maybe we can get Carlisemo? or Even Lawrence Frank??

I agree about how to work with Teague and have to hope since we did not ( not yet anyway, trade deadline still looms ) pursue a PG with our open roster spot, Woody and Sund have confidence in Teague.

It would be great to get a Xs and Os guy on the staff. JJ and Horf are going to cost us a fortune. Two questions come quickly to mind. How much money does management want to spend on coaching and is Woody open to someone else using his chalkboard during time outs? LOL

[BusBoyIsBack]

No way should Teague start but he definitely should get more minutes per game. Would be nice if he had double digit minutes per night at least.

But you can't replace what Bibby does to stretch the floor from the perimeter. Maybe when Bibby is having an off night you try to change the pace up with Teague, but he is not a starter right now

[coachx]

I guarantee that we would be a better team if this happened. Sometimes I wonder what Woody is thinking. The second unit was obviously playing better tonight than the first unit and yet in the second half he went right back to his old ways. Bibby was absolutely terrible tonight in 26 minutes while Teague was playing great defense while initiating the offense. I know we won but is it too much to expect more when there is clearly a flaw?

Bibby could be a great spark off the bench and could still help us a great deal. Then Teague could get the minutes he needs so he has the experience come playoff time. This needs to happen now, but it won't and it's sad.

Even when Bibby's shot is off he still is a valuable calming influence to the starting unit. He is one guy that alwayse plays under control. Even though his shot was off he had 6 assist and 0 turnovers. If some one is not in the right spot he makes sure they get to the right spot and know what play has been called.

[spotatl]

Bibby is the first legitimate starting NBA pointguard Woodson has had since he has been here. I really am not ready to bench him for Teague.

[Diesel]

I agree about how to work with Teague and have to hope since we did not ( not yet anyway, trade deadline still looms ) pursue a PG with our open roster spot, Woody and Sund have confidence in Teague.

It would be great to get a Xs and Os guy on the staff. JJ and Horf are going to cost us a fortune. Two questions come quickly to mind. How much money does management want to spend on coaching and is Woody open to someone else using his chalkboard during time outs? LOL

It doesn't have to be someone expensive or with aspirations of becoming a HC right away... but an X and O guy who could teach plays. Even a guy like Terry Porter or Paul Westhead (My personal favorite).

[Guest]

Not yet. Bibby opens the floor for us bigtime. He knocks down almost all his open shots. I love Teague but he's at least a year away from starting. Give Teague his 10-15 min. for development.

[DjGrizz]

Give Teague his 10-15 min. for development.

Problem is, he's not getting those minutes to develop. Someone needs to knock some sense into Woody and tell him not to **** this one up!

Edited January 15, 2010 by DjGrizz

[DJlaysitup]

Problem is, he's not getting those minutes to develop. Someone needs to knock some sense into Woody and tell him not to **** this one up!

Development...development...development. C'mon guys...really. I hope Teague becomes the best PG of all time for our Hawks. But the truth is he was about the 5th or 6th PG taken in the draft - reason - he can't shoot from the perimeter (AVG). Sure, he hits one now and then to excite the lovers - but his perimeter game is pretty bad. Not something a coach can trust.

We all have to realize that we see our guys in games for the most part. Woody sees Bibby hitting 9-10 threes in practice and also knows he has the pedigree to hit them (not 9-10...but good) in big games. Woody will never forget the 0-15 Teague had in pre-season.

Development is all well and good - depending on if you are developing the right guy.

What does a PG need to do?

1. Run the offense - be the QB. 2. Hit clutch shots when necessary 3. Be able to pass to your explosive players (get assists) 4. Be fast/quick and defend opposing PGs.

Bibby is still 3 for 4. I remember when Speedy (healthy) DOMINATED Deron (Utah) as far as quickness went...to the point that they had to have the SG bring the ball up. They still beat us.

Edited January 15, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[DjGrizz]

Development...development...development. C'mon guys...really. I hope Teague becomes the best PG of all time for our Hawks. But the truth is he was about the 5th or 6th PG taken in the draft - reason - he can't shoot from the perimeter (AVG). Sure, he hits one now and then to excite the lovers - but his perimeter game is pretty bad. Not something a coach can trust.

We all have to realize that we see our guys in games for the most part. Woody sees Bibby hitting 9-10 threes in practice and also knows he has the pedigree to hit them (not 9-10...but good) in big games. Woody will never forget the 0-15 Teague had in pre-season.

Development is all well and good - depending on if you are developing the right guy.

What does a PG need to do?

1. Run the offense - be the QB. 2. Hit clutch shots when necessary 3. Be able to pass to your explosive players (get assists) 4. Be fast/quick and defend opposing PGs.

Bibby is still 3 for 4. I remember when Speedy (healthy) DOMINATED Deron (Utah) as far as quickness went...to the point that they had to have the SG bring the ball up. They still beat us.

Sure he was the fifth PG taken, but many were saying he was a huge steal where we got him. Besides, you act as though draft order is equal to their success. Where you are drafted means nothing. For crying out loud, Marvin was taken before Chris Paul...Greg Oden before Kevin Durant. Drafts are usually a crap shoot.

Teague is 3rd in the NBA in steals per 48, 11th in the league in assist per 48. He can penetrate the ball and make passes in the lane that breakdown defenses, Bibby cannot. That is going to be critical, especially for a team that lacks an identity and ball movement. Say all you want to about Bibby, but he is slow and gets manhandled by most PG's.

As far as Speedy goes, I've never seen him dunk a basketball with the authority that Teague can. That to me is a REALLY bad comparison. Our backup 'point guard' who plays 30 minutes a game **cough** Crawford **Cough** is avg 2.6 assist a game. That's abysmal! Teague gets that in 7 minutes on the floor. That fact of the matter is he is not given a chance! We have enough good players on this team that can make 'the shot' Teague should be getting more minutes cause it will only make us better come playoff time

I really hate when people give up on a player when they haven't even got a chance.

Sad.

[exodus]

Development...development...development. C'mon guys...really. I hope Teague becomes the best PG of all time for our Hawks. But the truth is he was about the 5th or 6th PG taken in the draft - reason - he can't shoot from the perimeter (AVG). Sure, he hits one now and then to excite the lovers - but his perimeter game is pretty bad. Not something a coach can trust.

We all have to realize that we see our guys in games for the most part. Woody sees Bibby hitting 9-10 threes in practice and also knows he has the pedigree to hit them (not 9-10...but good) in big games. Woody will never forget the 0-15 Teague had in pre-season.

Development is all well and good - depending on if you are developing the right guy.

What does a PG need to do?

1. Run the offense - be the QB. 2. Hit clutch shots when necessary 3. Be able to pass to your explosive players (get assists) 4. Be fast/quick and defend opposing PGs.

Bibby is still 3 for 4. I remember when Speedy (healthy) DOMINATED Deron (Utah) as far as quickness went...to the point that they had to have the SG bring the ball up. They still beat us.

1 Run the offense? What offense?

2. He hit a lot of clutch shots last year but he shot 37% overall last month. He shot well in November but that's it.

3 Bibby is averaging 4 assists per game. Smith gets almost as many assists as Bibby.

4. bibbys man D against quick pgs is so bad that we have to put JJ on them and he can't guard them either.

[Crank]

Sure he was the fifth PG taken, but many were saying he was a huge steal where we got him. Besides, you act as though draft order is equal to their success. Where you are drafted means nothing. For crying out loud, Marvin was taken before Chris Paul...Greg Oden before Kevin Durant. Drafts are usually a crap shoot.

Teague is 3rd in the NBA in steals per 48, 11th in the league in assist per 48. He can penetrate the ball and make passes in the lane that breakdown defenses, Bibby cannot. That is going to be critical, especially for a team that lacks an identity and ball movement. Say all you want to about Bibby, but he is slow and gets manhandled by most PG's.

As far as Speedy goes, I've never seen him dunk a basketball with the authority that Teague can. That to me is a REALLY bad comparison. Our backup 'point guard' who plays 30 minutes a game **cough** Crawford **Cough** is avg 2.6 assist a game. That's abysmal! Teague gets that in 7 minutes on the floor. That fact of the matter is he is not given a chance! We have enough good players on this team that can make 'the shot' Teague should be getting more minutes cause it will only make us better come playoff time

I really hate when people give up on a player when they haven't even got a chance.

Sad.

So we lack an identity ? what are you talking about ? We are top ten team in the nba in assists you really should just stop while you are ahead .

48 minute stats mean little as no one averages 48 mpg . Do you really believe that if we played Teague 48 mpg he would average 9 assists per game . Im sure Ridnour ,Telfair and other perennial backups fans would say the same thing but it doesnt mean that would be whats best for the team .

You seem to think that somehow if we start teague the ball would flow through Teague over Joe and thats just ridiculous . If the argument was start Teague because we could get out into the transition faster and increase our pace then I could buy that argument but it would still come down to Teague not being anywhere near as good as Bibby in the halfcourt .

Teague hasnt shown he can shoot the three or get to the line, has trouble finishing and considering hes not a pure pass first pg hes not gonna get many consistent minutes on any team without showing improvement in those areas but still Woody has gotten him in against certain matchups .

He plays well against Boykins and people want him matched up against the 6'4 Foye ? 6'6 nick young ? seriously .....

Woody is doing a great job with Teague and I expect to see him more after the all star break . Hes gotten spot minutes and will have a chance to see all the team and players at least once . We have one 4 game trip right after the all star break and then start feeding Teague consistent minutes as we have no more than 2 road games in a row the rest of the season.

[Admin]

1 Run the offense? What offense?

2. He hit a lot of clutch shots last year but he shot 37% overall last month. He shot well in November but that's it.

3 Bibby is averaging 4 assists per game. Smith gets almost as many assists as Bibby.

4. bibbys man D against quick pgs is so bad that we have to put JJ on them and he can't guard them either.

As I see it, Bibby has a few things going for him right now:

He is a threat at the 3pt line that the defense must account for. He has slumped recently but for the season he's still over 40%, which right now would be the 2nd best of his career and an improvement over last year. His FT% and Assists/40 are also up this season as well.

He is a solid ball handler with a great turnover ratio* (8.4 this season, slightly down from 8.0 last season when he was 8th best in the league) and this year his assist ratio** is actually the highest of his career at 30.5. Just for comparison Deron Williams has an 11.4 turnover ratio (far worse) and a 32.6 assist ratio (slightly better). They're also comparable in true shooting percentage*** with Bibby at 54.3 (last year 53.4) and Deron at 58.5. This isn't to say that Bibby is on the same level as Deron, just that he's not having as bad of a season as it may seem. Of course he's still a huge liability on defense but he does at least know where he is supposed to be and what he is supposed to do on defense.

I also don't think that we can overlook the fact that he seems to have a calming influence on the rest of the players on the floor. He's also big in our transition game as he almost always makes the right decision instead of turning it over and of course he throws perfect alley oops!

• *Turnover Ratio is the percentage of a player’s possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• **Assist Ratio is the percentage of a player’s possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• ***True Shooting Percentage calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points x 50) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]

[exodus]

Bibby isn't going to turn it over much because he hardly ever drives. He is averaging only .9 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL1.HTM

Given the Hawks offensive collapses late in games against tough teams Bibby's inability to create is a significant issue. JJ is the one who does the heavy lifting on offense. When he gets doubled he frequently kicks it out to Bibby who either shoots or swings it to another shooter. In the latter case Bibby will get credit for an assists if the other guy scores but it isn't like he created anything.

Bibby has been off for awhile and definitely isn't playing well enough to keep Teague glued to the bench. Bibby's PER of 13.93 is 34th among pgs and the whole team constantly has to cover for him on defense.

[Admin]

Bibby isn't going to turn it over much because he hardly ever drives. He is averaging only .9 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL1.HTM

Given the Hawks offensive collapses late in games against tough teams Bibby's inability to create is a significant issue. JJ is the one who does the heavy lifting on offense. When he gets doubled he frequently kicks it out to Bibby who either shoots or swings it to another shooter. In the latter case Bibby will get credit for an assists if the other guy scores but it isn't like he created anything.

Bibby has been off for awhile and definitely isn't playing well enough to keep Teague glued to the bench. Bibby's PER of 13.93 is 34th among pgs and the whole team constantly has to cover for him on defense.

You're right he is going to turn it over less since he's not a driving PG and it does hurt our offense in times when we need that from him but I do think that overall we're better with him on the floor than we are without. Part of me would love to see Teague be forced into running the point for us full-time but the other part of me says that I'd like to bring him along slowly and not put him in situations where the game is on the line just yet.

If we could get another veteran PG via trade I'd be all for it, but we don't have much to trade that isn't a valuable piece of our team to bring in someone.

[exodus]

You're right he is going to turn it over less since he's not a driving PG and it does hurt our offense in times when we need that from him but I do think that overall we're better with him on the floor than we are without. Part of me would love to see Teague be forced into running the point for us full-time but the other part of me says that I'd like to bring him along slowly and not put him in situations where the game is on the line just yet.

If we could get another veteran PG via trade I'd be all for it, but we don't have much to trade that isn't a valuable piece of our team to bring in someone.

Bring him along slowly? He has played 8 minutes or less in 7 of the last 10 games. He played only 3 minutes when we got blown out by Miami. He played only 8 against the sorry Wizards, 3 against Minny. In the last two Knicks games (both losses) he has played at total of 7 minutes. That isn't just bringing him along slowly. That isn't bringing him along at all. There is no excuse for playing him so few minutes against sorry teams when Bibby is struggling.

How will he ever be productive in important minutes if he never plays improtant minutes, or hardly plays at all?

[Admin]

Bring him along slowly? He has played 8 minutes or less in 7 of the last 10 games. He played only 3 minutes when we got blown out by Miami. He played only 8 against the sorry Wizards, 3 against Minny. In the last two Knicks games (both losses) he has played at total of 7 minutes. That isn't just bringing him along slowly. That isn't bringing him along at all. There is no excuse for playing him so few minutes against sorry teams when Bibby is struggling.

How will he ever be productive in important minutes if he never plays improtant minutes, or hardly plays at all?

I didn't say that we were bringing him along slowly (we are although it's extremely slowly and poorly), but he's getting far fewer and more random minutes than I'd like him to get. I'm just not ready to have him replace Bibby as the starter or have him in there when the game is on the line.

[Crank]

Bring him along slowly? He has played 8 minutes or less in 7 of the last 10 games. He played only 3 minutes when we got blown out by Miami. He played only 8 against the sorry Wizards, 3 against Minny. In the last two Knicks games (both losses) he has played at total of 7 minutes. That isn't just bringing him along slowly. That isn't bringing him along at all. There is no excuse for playing him so few minutes against sorry teams when Bibby is struggling.

How will he ever be productive in important minutes if he never plays improtant minutes, or hardly plays at all?

This is all speculation based on what you want to see . The outcome of the game doesnt and shouldnt dictate whether or not Teague should play . What if teague was struggling in practice ? Essentially you are saying he should play token minutes because of his draft status but no good team does that .

Its also not just Bibby struggling either,Teague probably has one of the best combo guard in the league playing ahead of him as well. Once you factor in that several of these games you are complaining about were road games it just doesnt make sense because we are not a lottery team.

Its a chicken little attitude to act as though because he hasnt played 30+ minutes per game on a playoff team in his first 40 games then his carer his over. Oh how will ever learn if he doesnt play immediately. :eek: