Josh Smith vs Joe Johnson for team MVP this season

[Crank]

I'm not 'pushing' any rep by his old teams. I'm simply saying what I see with my own two eyes. He is terrible defensively, period. For someone to not see that absolutely boggles my mind.

actually you said he was "absolutely atrocious defensively" and Im just trying to find out in what way ?

for example

Crawford outscored the Bulls bench himself 17-8

We held the Bulls to 81 points

We were down 7 heading into the 4th and had a great comeback with Crawford on the floor and it wasnt the first time .

We play a switching defense and often times our guard bigger players . is Crawford getting abused in these situations ?Is the player he is guarding without switching destroying us every game .

Im not advocating him as some sort of great defensive player Im just saying that with my own eyes Im not seeing him out there killing us defensively.

[MaceCase]

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/2008/04/photos-when-dun.html

You wanna run that argument by me again because this is what I read.

how can someone be a team MVP when they play with such little emotion?

Annnnnnnd you send me pictures of Tim Duncan sitting on the bench.

:questions:

[HawkWeisErrr]

You wanna run that argument by me again because this is what I read.

Annnnnnnd you send me pictures of Tim Duncan sitting on the bench.

:questions:

When was the last time JJ got the team together like that? Maybe you should click the link again.

[niremetal]

You wanna run that argument by me again because this is what I read.

Annnnnnnd you send me pictures of Tim Duncan sitting on the bench.

:questions:

Basic rule: The less you say, the more people pay attention to you when you do talk. It's the same reason smart trial attorneys only object sparingly, and the same reason everyone knows the story of the boy who cried wolf.

Edited February 9, 2010 by niremetal

[Plastic Man]

Basic rule: The less you say, the more people pay attention to you when you do talk. It's the same reason smart trial attorneys only object sparingly, and the same reason everyone knows the story of the boy who cried wolf.

but if you never say anything at all (jj), you're not helping anyone.

[benhillboy]

Do I have to answer this? Y'all are trying to bait me into a rant. I'm trying to like JJ on a consistent, win or lose basis, but it's very hard, especially when he misses time because he has a cold. Maybe I'll come around one day, or not. IMO, Josh and Al are subtantially more "valuable," whatever that means. Their win percentages, simple ratings, total plus/ minus, etc., are better than Joe's. I tend to like players who excel at running, jumping, hustling, and competing. Maybe I'm crazy.

Edited February 10, 2010 by benhillboy

[MaceCase]

When was the last time JJ got the team together like that? Maybe you should click the link again.

Really? So your argument is that you can't be team MVP if you don't show emotion and you use Tim Duncan, one of the most emotionless players in the NBA,

sitting on the bench

talking,

yes talking, not yelling

to the point his team has to lean in just to hear him.

Therefore you are right, Joe Johnson, team captain and 4 time allstar cannot possibly be the MVP of his team or command respect from them because apparently Tim Duncan waving his hands shows more of the prerequisite emotion to be a leader than anything Joe has ever shown.

Go somewhere else with you blatant garbage.

[thecampster]

Really? So your argument is that you can't be team MVP if you don't show emotion and you use Tim Duncan, one of the most emotionless players in the NBA,

sitting on the bench

talking,

yes talking, not yelling

to the point his team has to lean in just to hear him.

Therefore you are right, Joe Johnson, team captain and 4 time allstar cannot possibly be the MVP of his team or command respect from them because apparently Tim Duncan waving his hands shows more of the prerequisite emotion to be a leader than anything Joe has ever shown.

Go somewhere else with you blatant garbage.

Problem with this statement is the stats aren't backing up your arguement. Joe is outscoring Josh based on Volumn Shooting....everything else is hard to equate. your shooting guard shouldn't only have .7 more assists a game than your power forward. Joe is only scoring 6 more points a game and is getting it handed to him in pretty much every category.

[MaceCase]

Problem with this statement is the stats aren't backing up your arguement. Joe is outscoring Josh based on Volumn Shooting....everything else is hard to equate. your shooting guard shouldn't only have .7 more assists a game than your power forward. Joe is only scoring 6 more points a game and is getting it handed to him in pretty much every category.

Josh Smith is having 63% of his offense created for him, why exactly is our "MVP" so dependent on others? This argument is akin to debating who was the best player for Detroit, Ben Wallace dominated the boards and defensively plus was the emotional core of the team yet there were not going anywhere without Chauncey. Volume scorers are volume scorers because they have the rare ability to not only create offense for themselves but for others. Despite taking more shots, and far more difficult ones for that matter, Joe is still shooting at a higher eFG and true shooting % than Josh....the PF getting assisted on gimmes. Hows that for stats?

You need both on this team but you people are giving far more credit for our success to Josh for "getting it" than you are JJ who is only shooting lights out for us and drawing all the attention away from the other guys.

[Kimsey]

Johnson: 22ppg on 18.6 shots per game.

Smith: 15.1ppg on 11.6 shots per game.

It's a wash on scoring, Johnson is more clutch. I wonder how Smoove would do with a coach building his offense around him. My goodness, if he could get back to 70% free throws and Josh would easily be the more efficient scorer.

[Diesel]

For those of you whoose argument is about being emotional leader....

Have you ever read Phil Jackson's book Sacred Hoops?

In his book he uncovered a lot of his coaching techniques but more importantly, he opens up the world of the Chicago Bulls.

When you think about those Bulls, most people consider Jordan to have been the leader of that team. According to Phil, that's far from the truth. While Jordan was the fist pumper, the big time scorer, the allstar among allstars, the guy always in front of a microphone the leader of that team was the laid back Scottie Pippen. In fact, Phil Credits Pippen with keeping things together. MJ had a lot of needs.... and Scottie was the right guy to handle the floor and the lockerroom.

I see a lot of the same thing with us... Josh is the emotion guy, but his game is definitely improved by playing next to Joe. He would still be a shot blocker, rebounder, etc... but offensively, Joe takes the pressure off of most of our guys.

[thecampster]

For those of you whoose argument is about being emotional leader....

Have you ever read Phil Jackson's book Sacred Hoops?

In his book he uncovered a lot of his coaching techniques but more importantly, he opens up the world of the Chicago Bulls.

When you think about those Bulls, most people consider Jordan to have been the leader of that team. According to Phil, that's far from the truth. While Jordan was the fist pumper, the big time scorer, the allstar among allstars, the guy always in front of a microphone the leader of that team was the laid back Scottie Pippen. In fact, Phil Credits Pippen with keeping things together. MJ had a lot of needs.... and Scottie was the right guy to handle the floor and the lockerroom.

I see a lot of the same thing with us... Josh is the emotion guy, but his game is definitely improved by playing next to Joe. He would still be a shot blocker, rebounder, etc... but offensively, Joe takes the pressure off of most of our guys.

Ok...amazing...non critical statement coming. I see it exactly opposite. I see Josh as the guy that keeps us from falling apart most nights. I see teams making a run...getting back into the game or putting us away and then BAM...layup blocked out of nowhere...run the floor...boom...slam it down. Crowd either goes quiet when away or leaps up at home and the game changes. Rarely do I see Joe ignite a spurt...he's just going about the business of getting his points most nights. I can't tell you how many of his assists come on getting bottled up...passing out of the situation he dribbled himself into and someone hits a jumper with 2 seconds left to bail him out.

Just a matter of perspective. I find it interesting how 2 people can watch the same game and come away seeing it differently.

Those game changing plays though is how I saw Pippen. His lock down defense, knack for steals and electrifying plays are what swung the game....Jordan scored alot and was good in most areas. Pippen excelled all around.

Edited February 10, 2010 by thecampster

[benhillboy]

Josh and Al combined only make $130,886 more than Joe, yet individually, both figure more prominently as far as all-around stats according to 82 games. If that isn't better value, what is?

[Rome26]

Josh and Al combined only make $130,886 more than Joe, yet individually, both figure more prominently as far as all-around stats according to 82 games. If that isn't better value, what is?

You are smart enough to realize Horford is on his rookie contract are you?

[BrazilianHawk]

I refuse to pick one of them. They're both awesome and they both have their off nights, so I'll call it a tie.

[benhillboy]

You are smart enough to realize Horford is on his rookie contract are you?

Rookie "house and family" contract, second "I wanna be rich" contract, third re-up "retirement fund" contract, what does it matter? Fact is, this year, Al and Josh provide much more bang for the buck.

Edited February 11, 2010 by benhillboy