Bibby Crawford and Johnson....

[Diesel]

There has been a lot of talk about how this is a "bad" lineup... Well, I looked at the numbers via 82 games... and though I'm not a stathead...

The Numbers Speak and says Otherwise.

My link

Not only is Bibby, Crawford, Joe, Smoove, Horf our best unit by wins, points, and efg... But also by defense.

:conversation:

[Admin]

Just goes to show that you can make the nimbers show whatever you need to prove a point, even when in reality we all know that lineup would be flat out awful defensively and we'd have a less effective offense off the bench.

[Diesel]

Just goes to show that you can make the nimbers show whatever you need to prove a point, even when in reality we all know that lineup would be flat out awful defensively and we'd have a less effective offense off the bench.

Did you watch the game today??

If you watched the game against the Bucks, you know that these numbers are not lying.

[AHF]

also by defense.

Best defensive lineups by points per possession allowed according to the link listed:

#1 - Crawford-Johnson-Williams

#2 - Bibby-Johnson-Williams

#3 - Teague-Crawford-Evans

#4 - Bibby-Crawford-Johnson

#5 - Crawford-Johnson-Williams

[Diesel]

Best defensive lineups by points per possession allowed according to the link listed:

#1 - Crawford-Johnson-Williams

#2 - Bibby-Johnson-Williams

#3 - Teague-Crawford-Evans

#4 - Bibby-Crawford-Johnson

#5 - Crawford-Johnson-Williams

How nice of you to ignore EFga?

Bibby-Crawford-Johnson-Josh.Smith-Horford are holding other teams to 43% while shooting 51.9% themselves.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Diesel

[mrhonline]

What's FAR more interesting is there's really only been three major lineups all year long.

This $%*# works!

Edited March 1, 2010 by mrhonline

[AHF]

How nice of you to ignore EFga?

Bibby-Crawford-Johnson-Josh.Smith-Horford are holding other teams to 43% while shooting 51.9% themselves.

The points count the same if they are sending people to the line as if they are giving up jumpers. I'm more interested in TS% than efg%, but if you can ignore points in favor of %s that is your prerogative. I do think both the %s and the total points/pssn are relevant stats.

[Diesel]

The points count the same if they are sending people to the line as if they are giving up jumpers. I'm more interested in TS% than efg%, but if you can ignore points in favor of %s that is your prerogative. I do think both the %s and the total points/pssn are relevant stats.

The thing is that a free throw doesn't count as a missed or made FG. Sure, it's points. But when you talk about the squad that is likely to stop the other team's progress, having a 43.6% defensive FG% is a strong statement.

[Plainview1981]

The thing is that a free throw doesn't count as a missed or made FG. Sure, it's points. But when you talk about the squad that is likely to stop the other team's progress, having a 43.6% defensive FG% is a strong statement.

For the most part... This teams idea of defense is just hoping Smith chases away scorers or the other team misses. The Mavs gave was a good example... They could hit water if they fell out of a boat in the 3rd period, but when Kidd got hot the team was done for. Same thing with Orlando... If they're hot, the Hawks are finished.

[Diesel]

For the most part... This teams idea of defense is just hoping Smith chases away scorers or the other team misses. The Mavs gave was a good example... They could hit water if they fell out of a boat in the 3rd period, but when Kidd got hot the team was done for. Same thing with Orlando... If they're hot, the Hawks are finished.

IF we really talk about the Mavs game.... what happened was Dirk put on his MVP suit and played like an MVP from the highpost. When Dirk is hitting that high post shot, the defense got to do something... and he was nailing us with that highpost shot.. even with the outstretched hand of Smoove in his face. Our defense then tried to trap the ball out of his hand. OK, they swing the ball... They had: Kidd, JT, and Barea on the floor to swing to. All of those guys can knock down a three... After Kidd got hot, that was all she wrote. You could have brought in the best defensive team in the league. When Dirk can hit that high post shot and when Kidd is knocking down threes.... that team is unstoppable.

[Plainview1981]

IF we really talk about the Mavs game.... what happened was Dirk put on his MVP suit and played like an MVP from the highpost. When Dirk is hitting that high post shot, the defense got to do something... and he was nailing us with that highpost shot.. even with the outstretched hand of Smoove in his face. Our defense then tried to trap the ball out of his hand. OK, they swing the ball... They had: Kidd, JT, and Barea on the floor to swing to. All of those guys can knock down a three... After Kidd got hot, that was all she wrote. You could have brought in the best defensive team in the league. When Dirk can hit that high post shot and when Kidd is knocking down threes.... that team is unstoppable.

The team still had the lead and they fell apart. Even with Dirk having a good game you still have a decent lead in the 4th period. Kidd also got a couple of steals in the 4th that made a difference. But I'll give you that Dirk's shooting makes a difference in Dallas W's and L's. In wins he shoots 49%FG and 39.7% in three's.... In losses he shoots 43% and 29% in 3's. But they still had the lead in the 4th and blew it. Same old offensive problems popped up. I think that is what makes people let down the most. They had the double figure lead... If you're trailing by a couple or only up a 2 points or something in middle of the 4th I think people would be less pissed off. But you can't blow double figure leads in big games in the 4th period.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[AHF]

The thing is that a free throw doesn't count as a missed or made FG. Sure, it's points. But when you talk about the squad that is likely to stop the other team's progress, having a 43.6% defensive FG% is a strong statement.

So we are on the same page. To make the efg% number really effective, the question you have to answer is why the B/C/J lineup is giving up more points per possession despite a lower efg% than other lineups. There could be a number of reasons - other lineups generate more turnovers from the oppositions, they are sending guys to the line with bad fouls to make up for Bibby/Crawford, they are giving up lots of second chance points with the terrible rebounding of B/C/J, etc. Those types of things are not reflected in efg% but show up in the points per possession. I am just not sure why anyone would think the efg% was a better indicator than points per possession as far as measuring the effectiveness of defensive combinations.

[Admin]

So we are on the same page. To make the efg% number really effective, the question you have to answer is why the B/C/J lineup is giving up more points per possession despite a lower efg% than other lineups. There could be a number of reasons - other lineups generate more turnovers from the oppositions, they are sending guys to the line with bad fouls to make up for Bibby/Crawford, they are giving up lots of second chance points with the terrible rebounding of B/C/J, etc. Those types of things are not reflected in efg% but show up in the points per possession. I am just not sure why anyone would think the efg% was a better indicator than points per possession as far as measuring the effectiveness of defensive combinations.

Because that's the only set of nimbers that can make his point.

And yes Diesel I watched the game last night and THANK GOD Woody put Marvin back in and yanked Bibby out otherwise we would have lost by double-digits.

[niremetal]

Whoa, wait...Diesel doesn't like Marvin?