The Toronto game should KILL the life without JJ talk.

[spotatl]

If Chicago, New York or any other possible destination for JJ wants to do their best in the off season it is in their best interest to tender JJ a contract and then work out a sign and trade with the Hawks.

I'd LOVE to hear your crazy logic on why you think that is. Its in Joe Johnson's best interest to have a S&T but we really need to hear why you think it would be better for Chicago or New York to do the S&T.

[spotatl]

Diesel- you do know that the Hawks are 5th in the league in assist rate this season? How on earth can you think that this team doesn't pass the ball when Joe Johnson is playing? The Hawks have a higher assist rate than the Suns this season.

Edited March 17, 2010 by spotatl

[BusBoyIsBack]

We beat arguably the WORST team in NBA HISTORY who was playing WITHOUT arguably THEIR BEST PLAYER (and a player who plays very well against us) and you are beating your chest over something? Come on man, you're becoming crazier than Diesel.

This should have been the end of thread.

[APE]

I don't like how Joe just doesn't travel with the team. I know he wouldn't say much but the guys he wants to be payed like travel with their team...hell even Stuckey travels with the Piss-tons

[NineOhTheRino]

I don't like how Joe just doesn't travel with the team. I know he wouldn't say much but the guys he wants to be payed like travel with their team...hell even Stuckey travels with the Piss-tons

Many teams don't allow injured players to travel with the team. I know the Eagles in the NFL don't.

Edited March 17, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[APE]

Many teams don't allow injured players to travel with the team. I know the Eagles in the NFL don't.

So..Joe's DA BOSS.

[thecampster]

Where are you getting this from? A team under the cap can sign free agents outright without any need for any sign and trade scenario. A sign and trade in this situation mostly benefits JJ because he can get 6 years and the maximum pay raises from us. The team that he is signing with is not obligated to give up much if anything to us because they are not constrained by having to match salaries.

There is no need for them to give up any valuable piece or draft pick from their team as those parts are actually what is making that team more attractive to the free agent in addition to the money. Chicago is not going to give us Noah, or Taj Gibson or Rose for Joe but they would be willing to give up Hinrich or James Johnson and a 2nd. New York is not going to give up Gallo or Chandler or any other picks but Eddy Curry is available. Scratch that, New York would probably hold onto Curry as he's a hefty expiring deal which we all know has value.

Look at Rashard Lewis as a better indicator of how this works as all Seattle got for him was a 2nd rounder and a TPE from the under the cap Magic. The Boston team you cited was already well above the cap and traded hefty contracts as filler along with young prospects and draft picks to get KG and Allen. Theo Ratliff and Wally Z were both instrumental to match salaries in that case as each was making 13 mill.

It is not all roses like you like to depict it, if Joe wants out he can leave us high and dry. The only bargaining chip Sund has if Joe leaves is appealing to his greed but make no mistake, those teams that can sign him don't owe us nada. Your post mostly applies if he wanted to go to LA, Orl or Dallas, teams already over the cap. Only then would we have bargaining power.

It's only done every freaking year there is a good free agent class. If a team believes that multiple free agents coming out are better than what they currently have they'll sign and trade for one, sign the other. happens every year. We are the best candidate since we are at the cap without JJ.

[niremetal]

It's only done every freaking year there is a good free agent class. If a team believes that multiple free agents coming out are better than what they currently have they'll sign and trade for one, sign the other. happens every year. We are the best candidate since we are at the cap without JJ.

I call BS. I haven't seen you cite a single instance where that has actually happened (much less every year), certainly not since the advent of BYC rules.

Edited March 17, 2010 by niremetal

[thecampster]

I call BS. I haven't seen you cite a single instance where that has actually happened (much less every year), certainly not since the advent of BYC rules.

How about I site the easy one.

August 20, 2005 Acquired guard Joe Johnson from the Phoenix Suns for guard-forward Boris Diaw and two conditional first-round picks.

August 12, 2005 Signed center Zaza Pachulia, who had been with the Milwaukee Bucks.

August 4, 2005 Signed center Zaza Pachulia, who is with the Milwaukee Bucks, to an offer sheet.

2 signings....one a sign and trade that allowed Phoenix the chance to get back something in return.

Oh how we Hawks fans forget.

[thecampster]

I call BS. I haven't seen you cite a single instance where that has actually happened (much less every year), certainly not since the advent of BYC rules.

Of course there was the Denver Nuggets getting creative to sign Juwan Howard

October 3, 2008 Signed forward Juwan Howard.

September 30, 2008 Signed guards Mateen Cleaves, William "Smush" Parker and forwards Nick Fazekas, James Mays and Ruben Patterson .

August 23, 2008 Signed guard J.R. Smith to a multi-year contract.

July 31, 2008 Signed guard-forward Dahntay Jones.

July 28, 2008 Acquired forward Renaldo Balkman from the New York Knicks for guard Taurean Green, forward Bobby Jones and a 2010 second round draft pick.

July 24, 2008 Signed forward Chris Anderson.

June 27, 2008 Acquired the draft rights to guard Sonny Weems from the Chicago Bulls.

Or Last years knicks deal

September 25, 2009 Re-signed F David Lee and G Nate Robinson.

September 24, 2009 Re-signed F David Lee to a one-year contract.

September 17, 2009 Signed G Sun Yue.

July 12, 2009 Signed forward Jordan Hill.

July 10, 2009 Signed guard Toney Douglas.

June 26, 2009 Acquired center Darko Milicic from the Memphis for guard/forward Quentin Richardson and cash considerations.

or the knicks of 07

October 10, 2007 Signed guard Allan Houston.

October 2, 2007 Signed forward Demetris Nichols and guards Jared Jordan, Walker Russell Jr. and Roderick Wilmont; waived guard Dan Dickau.

October 1, 2007 Acquired the rights to guard Jared Jordan from the Los Angeles Clippers for cash.

July 28, 2007 Signed forward Wilson Chandler.

June 29, 2007 Acquired forward Zach Randolph and guards Dan Dickau and Freddy Jones from the Portland Trail Blazers for guard Steve Francis and center Channing Frye; acquired the rights to forward Demetris Nichols from Portland for a 2008 second-round pick.

All deals designed to free up cash to sign another player. All of which had players complicit. The confusion here is that he is a free agent and a big time free agent that is most likely going to a big market in a bad economy.

Mark my words....it will be sign and trade central in the NBA this summer.

[MaceCase]

Okay, I lost patience.

Are you f***ing insane?

Each of those teams were over the cap and acquired each of those players through trades where they matched salary or signing them to MINIMUM or MLE deals yet alone the nonsense where you are showing a team signing it's own freakin draft picks.

Joe was a restricted free agent with Phoenix and their owner bluffed us into thinking they would match our offer to him so we worked out a deal where we gave half the farm for him. Had he been unrestricted we would have Diaw or Rondo on this team right now alongside him.

Thank God it's saint Patty's day, I need to eliminate these posts from my memory.

Edited March 17, 2010 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[Guest]

This thread angers me.

+1

[niremetal]

Okay, I lost patience.

Are you f***ing insane?

Each of those teams were over the cap and acquired each of those players through trades where they matched salary or signing them to MINIMUM or MLE deals yet alone the nonsense where you are showing a team signing it's own freakin draft picks.

Joe was a restricted free agent with Phoenix and their owner bluffed us into thinking they would match our offer to him so we worked out a deal where we gave half the farm for him. Had he been unrestricted we would have Diaw or Rondo on this team right now alongside him.

Thank God it's saint Patty's day, I need to eliminate these posts from my memory.

Seriously.

[Marvin24Williams]

As much as I don't like the pounding of the basketball and making a somewhat difficult shot more difficult, he is still the guy who draws double teams and can make clutch shots. We are not a very good team without him. Besides, we won't have much more than the MLE and a tad bit of cap space if Joe doesn't come back. We won't be able to get a good scoring guard and a big man with that.

Yes, we won on the road without Joe against a garbage team without its second leading scorer (Harris) and Yi who gave us fits in the last game. That doesn't mean we can win like we do without him. But make no mistake, we either overpay to keep Joe and work to keep climbing up the Eastern Conference, or we let him go and try to sign some average guard while Crawford starts and faces double teams and lower FG% because he then becomes the focus of the defense with no one else who strikes fear in them.

Joe's our best player, but he is FAR FAR FAR from clutch.

[TheTruth]

Joe's our best player, but he is FAR FAR FAR from clutch.

There is a BIG difference between BEING clutch and having the ABILITY to make clutch shots. I said, he CAN MAKE clutch shots. Outside of Craw, who do we have on the team who can consistently do that?

I'll wait...

[exodus]

Can anyone remember Bosh looking so bad? Wow

[exodus]

Hawks 10-13 from 3. Where was this against the Knicks?

[MVP23]

this has to count for something.

[mrhonline]

Wow. The Raptors specifically waited for Horford to switch OFF Bosh to get Josh Smith.

That's some respect.

[mrhonline]

Sucky way to lose, if they do.

You give Bosh that step-back J all day long. He's a great jumpshooter, but that's about as low% as it gets for them.