Since hearing ASG lost 40-50 million dallors last year

[NineOhTheRino]

it's hard to pound on these guys for going cheap with LD. I'm honestly shocked that they are even considering paying out 20+ million per to JJ. Could someone please help me understand why ASG think JJ is so important. I understand W/L but I doubt Joe has real impact on the bottom line.

Thats:

Thrashers - 30 mill

Hawks -10

Arena +10

Edited June 22, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[drzachary]

it's hard to pound on these guys for going cheap with LD. I'm honestly shocked that they are even considering paying out 20+ million per to JJ. Could someone please help me understand why ASG think JJ is so important. I understand W/L but I doubt Joe has real impact on the bottom line.

Thats:

Thrashers - 30 mill

Hawks -10

Arena +10

A bit of a tangent: Like any business, ASG should develop their product and invest money in it in order to sell it. I do not weep for their losses, nor do I feel like we "owe" them support. They've done well so far running it on the cheap (low payroll for a playoff team, lowest coach payroll possible) .. but spending real money is required to make the big gambles in hiring, FA and trades to really win fan buy-in. Just my $0.02.

[AHF]

Thats:

Thrashers - 30 mill

Hawks -10

Arena +10

That is a lot of money to lose, but isn't that a loss of 30M rather than 40-50M?

I would be selling the Thrashers if I ran the ASG.

[Guest]

They may have operated at a loss, but what is happening to the value of the franchise? Its going up. Don't be fooled when you see owners complaining about losing money. They can always fudge the numbers to make it look like they operated at a loss. If you look at the value of the franchise, they are making tons of money.

Reports like this are coming out because the NBA wants to posture itself in a good situation for the labor negotiations.

Oh and by the way, where are you getting these numbers from?

Edited June 22, 2010 by hawksfanatic

[Buzzard]

it's hard to pound on these guys for going cheap with LD. I'm honestly shocked that they are even considering paying out 20+ million per to JJ. Could someone please help me understand why ASG think JJ is so important. I understand W/L but I doubt Joe has real impact on the bottom line.

Thats:

Thrashers - 30 mill

Hawks -10

Arena +10

Thrashers - 30 mill...I use to go to Flames games but only when they were free company provided tickets. I never understood having a major hockey team in Atlanta. People can argue about the transplant population, but even if 1/4 of the metro area is from great hockey states ( which I doubt its that high), Atl would still have the lowest hockey following demographic in the league IMO.

Hawks lost ten million? That is what I would think is a decent# giving the economy and attendance projections that were forecast at the start of the season. Wins is the only reason the losses is not higher. But yes, this is a tough economy for all businesses and consumers. I do not blame them for not wanting to sign a coach to big contract when they still have JJ and Horf to worry about, plus pick 24 which cost 980,000 ( roughly a million)...

Edited June 22, 2010 by Buzzard

[Sothron]

They may have operated at a loss, but what is happening to the value of the franchise? Its going up. Don't be fooled when you see owners complaining about losing money. They can always fudge the numbers to make it look like they operated at a loss. If you look at the value of the franchise, they are making tons of money.

Reports like this are coming out because the NBA wants to posture itself in a good situation for the labor negotiations.

Oh and by the way, where are you getting these numbers from?

I agree, I find these numbers hard (read: I don't believe in them) to stomach just like the player's association. Owners always try to claim they lose money on teams and yet somehow the franchises are worth hundreds of millions of dollars (or more) in every sport. Laughable how they expect us to believe they actually lose money hand over fist.

[NineOhTheRino]

That is a lot of money to lose, but isn't that a loss of 30M rather than 40-50M?

I would be selling the Thrashers if I ran the ASG.

my bad....the Hawks lost 20 million

they lost 50 million combined

Edited June 22, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[Buzzard]

my bad....the Hawks lost 20 million

they lost 50 million on both teams

And where did you get these numbers? The NY Post maybe...sorry could not help myself.

[AHF]

I never understood having a major hockey team in Atlanta. People can argue about the transplant population, but even if 1/4 of the metro area is from great hockey states ( which I doubt its that high), Atl would still have the lowest hockey following demographic in the league IMO.

Since the ASG don't care about their hockey team, I see no reason for them to hold onto the Thrashers. There are too few teams in Canada and too many teams in the south in the NHL.

How does a hockey league end up with 5 teams in Canada and teams in Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, Arizona, Texas and two teams in Florida.

That is 7 teams in the South versus 5 in Canada.

That is insane and certainly has done nothing to grow or raise the profile of the sport since the migration of those franchises south of the border and the expansion of the league below the mason-dixon line.

[lethalweapon3]

Oh and by the way, where are you getting these numbers from?

The NY Post article. Although if I recall correctly, the Post's source was ASG itself.

~lw3

[NineOhTheRino]

And where did you get these numbers? The NY Post maybe...sorry could not help myself.

Steak & Darren Rovell

listen at the 1:10 min remaining mark

Edited June 22, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[Buzzard]

That is insane and certainly has done nothing to grow or raise the profile of the sport since the migration of those franchises south of the border and the expansion of the league below the mason-dixon line.

That is completely insane....Canada and just about any border state is where hockey needs to focus. People here in Cinci talk about hockey. I only had one friend from Detroit who talked about hockey while I was living in Atlanta

[AHF]

That is completely insane....Canada and just about any border state is where hockey needs to focus. People here in Cinci talk about hockey. I only had one friend from Detroit who talked about hockey while I was living in Atlanta

I am sure there are some outstanding Atlanta fans but the interest as a whole just doesn't compare.

[NineOhTheRino]

A bit of a tangent: Like any business, ASG should develop their product and invest money in it in order to sell it. I do not weep for their losses, nor do I feel like we "owe" them support. They've done well so far running it on the cheap (low payroll for a playoff team, lowest coach payroll possible) .. but spending real money is required to make the big gambles in hiring, FA and trades to really win fan buy-in. Just my $0.02.

but how can they develop the product if they're losing so much money? These guys look to be in a no-win situation in this city. They got JJ hoping that he could bring fans back but that failed. I think they've done enough. At some point we fans have to carry our weight or risk losing the team to a more supportive city.

Edited June 22, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[tomac]

What I want to know is what type of loss was the $30 million? From my private sector days, I know that "loosing" money is subjective. Is the $30 mil loss from their planned profit? Did it only affect the profit margin? Did it actually affect ASG's overhead numbers? If they have really lost as much money as they claim to have lost against their overhead, then they would sell this team to the first thing buying. Businesses must make at least enough to cover their overhead, or they can't exist. I know plenty of businesses who are bidding jobs with little to no profit in them just so they can pay their overhead costs. I'd be willing to guarantee you that ASG's not going broke; their just not making what they projected. There is a huge difference.

To support this thought, you haven't heard of a single article cutting ASG staff salaries, laying off employees, or decreasing ownership take. When that happens, then you know that they are loosing money.

[Buzzard]

What I want to know is what type of loss was the $30 million? From my private sector days, I know that "loosing" money is subjective. Is the $30 mil loss from their planned profit? Did it only affect the profit margin? Did it actually affect ASG's overhead numbers? If they have really lost as much money as they claim to have lost against their overhead, then they would sell this team to the first thing buying. Businesses must make at least enough to cover their overhead, or they can't exist. I know plenty of businesses who are bidding jobs with little to no profit in them just so they can pay their overhead costs. I'd be willing to guarantee you that ASG's not going broke; their just not making what they projected. There is a huge difference.

To support this thought, you haven't heard of a single article cutting ASG staff salaries, laying off employees, or decreasing ownership take. When that happens, then you know that they are loosing money.

They are doing that with the Thrashers. Ran with a minor league interm coach and have traded, let walk, or sold every decent player/draft pick they have had over the last three seasons...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

but how can they develop the product if they're losing so much money? These guys look to be in a no-win situation in this city. They got JJ hoping that he could bring fans back but that failed. I think they've done enough. At some point we fans have to carry our weight or risk losing the team to a more supportive city.

Hmmmmmm . . . . . I wonder who else on this board has made the argument about the fans "carrying their weight"?

[Buzzard]

Hmmmmmm . . . . . I wonder who else on this board has made the argument about the fans "carrying their weight"?

So that should make your count a even half dozen at most in " its the fans fault bleacher section"...rah rah rah or is it blah blah blah?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

What I want to know is what type of loss was the $30 million? From my private sector days, I know that "loosing" money is subjective. Is the $30 mil loss from their planned profit? Did it only affect the profit margin? Did it actually affect ASG's overhead numbers? If they have really lost as much money as they claim to have lost against their overhead, then they would sell this team to the first thing buying.

I heard on Fox Sports radio from one of the hosts taking about the Lakers, that owner Jerry Buss is relutant to pau Phil Jackson 12 million a year, because the Lakers lost somewhere between 20 - 30 million last year.

But for the Lakers, you're talking about a loss in profit, which was 50 milllion ( according to the radio host ), to around 20 million.

The dip in revenue could encompass anything from

- lower ticket sales

- which in turn would cause a dip in concession money

- less in-arena advertising being bought

- less merchandising bought

And because the ASG basically runs the entire Philips Arena operation, you're talking about everything else the arena hosts, from other sporting events to concerts.

So you're right. This could merely be a loss in projected or actual profit, rather than the ASG just bleeding out the arms in money.

Either way, it's probably safe to say that they're making only a modest profit, or are losing money overall ( which wouldn't surprise people )

[Sothron]

I disagree completely with the notion that hockey can't exist south of the northern US. Look at the attendance numbers, the fans in the South do a good job in fan attendance. The big difference is when those teams have cheap ownership and the fans have no incentive to support the team financially. The Thrashers used to have great attendance until years of cheap ASG ownership have killed many of the fans.