Even without Shaq.....Current Roster vs. last season

[Dragitoff]

Personally, I wanted to see Shaq here in a limited role, but now that's past, we can all move on. If you look at the Eastern Conference, there's no doubt some teams have improved themselves like Miami, Chicago, and Milwaukee. Equally, there are teams that have either maintained the status quo or arguably gone down in talent. No one will argue that Cleveland will not be a championship contender. Some teams like New York and New Jersey were expected to be major players in the free agent market, but never moved in as serious contenders, although New York did land Stoudamire. Both of those teams should improve on last year's marks, but it appears they are building for more than next season. Boston has replaced Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins with Shaq and Jermain O'Neal. Improvement or step back? Time will tell (of father time?) I wanted to look objectively at our roster and compare it to last year's. Yes, the ISO offense became quite predictable and sometimes easy to defend, so none of us know how the motion offense will help or hurt us. I think we all believe it will improve our offense, but that's for a different discussion.

2009/2010 PG rotation: Mike Bibby, Jeff Teague, and Jamal Crawford

2010/2011 PG rotation: Mike Bibby, Jeff Teague, and Jamal Crawford

This should be an area of improvement as Mike Bibby settles into a smaller role with the team. His defensive liabilities and inability to drive and kick make him more of a spot up shooter. The motion offense, similar to triangle, could be good for him though. Teague will be relied on much heavier this year. The sophomore player may be the key to this team improving on last year's mark. Could he mature and start becoming the league's next Rajon Rondo?

2009/2010 SG rotation: Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Mario West

2010/2011 SG rotation: Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Jordan Crawford

This is another area that on paper has improved. Joe's game thrived in the one-on-one isolation plays as did Jamal Crawford's. Jamal has the ability to break down defenders as well as hit open jumpers. Johnson can also hit open shots and handles the ball well so he may be utilized to initiate some of the offense. He's an all-star for a reason, so you wouldn't expect a huge fall off for him or even Jamal Crawford. No one will argue Jordan Crawford's ceiling is much higher than West's. West was a great hustle guy and labeled a good defender. He's a good guy to have on the team, but was extremely limited offensively.

2009/2010 SF rotation: Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, Mo Evans

2010/2011 SF rotation: Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, Mo Evans

Nothing changes in this department either. Skeptics think Marvin is what he is. Optimists think Marvin will do much better in this new offense that will have defenders trying to key in on the other scoring options which will give Marvin more open looks. Who knows.

2009/2010 PF rotation: Josh Smith/Al Horford/Joe Smith

2010/2011 PF rotation: Josh Smith/Al Horford/Josh Powell, and possibly another FA (Josh Boone)

This is an area that hopefully improves by maturity. Swapping Powell for Joe Smith is probably not much of a benefit/cost to either team. The natural maturity of Josh and Al, with Josh seeing most of the PF time would hope to provide better production. The addition of someone like Josh Boone would give this team more depth, but there's no guarantee he'll be brought in.

2009/2010 C rotation: Al Horford/ZaZa Pachulia/Jason Collins/Randolph Morris

2010/2011 C rotation: Al Horford/ZaZa Pachulia/Jason Collins

Al was a much debated All-Star last year, but you can't argue his production, even if he's considered "undersized". He's a fighter in the paint and will never give up even if overmatched. He's all, but begged the Hawks for post help to no avail. He's back as our starting Center with virtually the same supporting cast. Jason Collins was seldom used, even against the teams he was brought in for. Hopefully Drew's use of players in this rotation will maximize the output. Horford and Pachulia work well together on the floor so that's a combo we hope to see more of.

All in all, I think we've improved on our depth. Even with Miami's warp speed improvement, you have to feel good about the Hawks' chances in the Eastern Conference seeding. Could the top 3 records in the East come from the same division? Absolutely.

[Swatguy]

Personally, I wanted to see Shaq here in a limited role, but now that's past, we can all move on. If you look at the Eastern Conference, there's no doubt some teams have improved themselves like Miami, Chicago, and Milwaukee. Equally, there are teams that have either maintained the status quo or arguably gone down in talent. No one will argue that Cleveland will not be a championship contender. Some teams like New York and New Jersey were expected to be major players in the free agent market, but never moved in as serious contenders, although New York did land Stoudamire. Both of those teams should improve on last year's marks, but it appears they are building for more than next season. Boston has replaced Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins with Shaq and Jermain O'Neal. Improvement or step back? Time will tell (of father time?) I wanted to look objectively at our roster and compare it to last year's. Yes, the ISO offense became quite predictable and sometimes easy to defend, so none of us know how the motion offense will help or hurt us. I think we all believe it will improve our offense, but that's for a different discussion.

2009/2010 PG rotation: Mike Bibby, Jeff Teague, and Jamal Crawford

2010/2011 PG rotation: Mike Bibby, Jeff Teague, and Jamal Crawford

This should be an area of improvement as Mike Bibby settles into a smaller role with the team. His defensive liabilities and inability to drive and kick make him more of a spot up shooter. The motion offense, similar to triangle, could be good for him though. Teague will be relied on much heavier this year. The sophomore player may be the key to this team improving on last year's mark. Could he mature and start becoming the league's next Rajon Rondo?

2009/2010 SG rotation: Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Mario West

2010/2011 SG rotation: Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, Jordan Crawford

This is another area that on paper has improved. Joe's game thrived in the one-on-one isolation plays as did Jamal Crawford's. Jamal has the ability to break down defenders as well as hit open jumpers. Johnson can also hit open shots and handles the ball well so he may be utilized to initiate some of the offense. He's an all-star for a reason, so you wouldn't expect a huge fall off for him or even Jamal Crawford. No one will argue Jordan Crawford's ceiling is much higher than West's. West was a great hustle guy and labeled a good defender. He's a good guy to have on the team, but was extremely limited offensively.

2009/2010 SF rotation: Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, Mo Evans

2010/2011 SF rotation: Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, Mo Evans

Nothing changes in this department either. Skeptics think Marvin is what he is. Optimists think Marvin will do much better in this new offense that will have defenders trying to key in on the other scoring options which will give Marvin more open looks. Who knows.

2009/2010 PF rotation: Josh Smith/Al Horford/Joe Smith

2010/2011 PF rotation: Josh Smith/Al Horford/Josh Powell, and possibly another FA (Josh Boone)

This is an area that hopefully improves by maturity. Swapping Powell for Joe Smith is probably not much of a benefit/cost to either team. The natural maturity of Josh and Al, with Josh seeing most of the PF time would hope to provide better production. The addition of someone like Josh Boone would give this team more depth, but there's no guarantee he'll be brought in.

2009/2010 C rotation: Al Horford/ZaZa Pachulia/Jason Collins/Randolph Morris

2010/2011 C rotation: Al Horford/ZaZa Pachulia/Jason Collins

Al was a much debated All-Star last year, but you can't argue his production, even if he's considered "undersized". He's a fighter in the paint and will never give up even if overmatched. He's all, but begged the Hawks for post help to no avail. He's back as our starting Center with virtually the same supporting cast. Jason Collins was seldom used, even against the teams he was brought in for. Hopefully Drew's use of players in this rotation will maximize the output. Horford and Pachulia work well together on the floor so that's a combo we hope to see more of.

All in all, I think we've improved on our depth. Even with Miami's warp speed improvement, you have to feel good about the Hawks' chances in the Eastern Conference seeding. Could the top 3 records in the East come from the same division? Absolutely.

I really do not like the roster as it is.

A.) Not sold on Teague. He will have to improve quickly to warrant minutes.

B) There is a hole at SF. Joe needs to fill that.

C) Short on Bigs. Need at least one more Quality Big.

FA has been a failure. Our shortings will have to be sucessfully met by trades. The chips are in order Marvin, Mo, 1st round pick(s), Zaza.

[Dragitoff]

I really do not like the roster as it is.

A.) Not sold on Teague. He will have to improve quickly to warrant minutes.

B) There is a hole at SF. Joe needs to fill that.

C) Short on Bigs. Need at least one more Quality Big.

FA has been a failure. Our shortings will have to be sucessfully met by trades. The chips are in order Marvin, Mo, 1st round pick(s), Zaza.

I won't disagree with any of your statements, but remember, essentially this same team won 53 games in a disfunctional offensive system (or lack of one) with undersized players at the 4 and 5. When looking at other teams, how many teams int eh NBA have a better PF/C combo than the Hawks? Could we use more depth? Absolutely, but I think we've got something good.

[IHeartAtlanta]

Despite all of the negativity around here our roster has improved from last year

[Dragitoff]

Despite all of the negativity around here our roster has improved from last year

I agree. I think we're all comparing our roster to what it could have been rather than what it was.

[DJlaysitup]

Looks pretty much the same to me. Having JC2 over Mario should be a plus, although I can't see JC2 having much of an impact unless we suffer an injury. Same with Powell (but to maybe even a lesser degree). Key for me is whether Teague's improvement can be much greater than Bibby's decline. I doubt Bibby will decline that much (and he may even come back rejuvenated)...so PG should be a mild plus. It looks pretty certain that our starting lineup will remain the same and...while there may be some improvement on a player-by-player basis, I think we are pretty much the same team as last year (now THAT's going out on a limb :biggrin: ).

It is impossible to judge coaching IMHO since LD has yet to coach a game in the NBA as headcoach. I tend to think (hope) that coachong will be a plus area though.

Still, we were pretty darn good last year and the guys got used to winning - so maybe the habit will continue! Improvement is always the goal but I'll take another 53 win season.

[Packfill]

I agree. I think we're all comparing our roster to what it could have been rather than what it was.

A couple thoughts about comparing this years roster to last seasons:

1. By and large, roster and depth is identical to last season.

2. I think the Hawks improvement remains tied to the continued development of some of its young players. But there are questions as to whether there will actually be any improvement in this area. Will we see further improvement by Smith/Williams/Horford? Will Teague earn minutes?

3. Will the team be able to go a second year in a row avoiding major injuries to key players? The Hawks were remarkably healthy last season so there is room for slippage here.

4. Will age further reduce Bibby's effectiveness?

5. Will Crawford continue his strong play from last season or will he see some slippage?

[DJlaysitup]

2. I think the Hawks improvement remains tied to the continued development of some of its young players. But there are questions as to whether there will actually be any improvement in this area. Will we see further improvement by Smith/Williams/Horford? Will Teague earn minutes?

3. Will the team be able to go a second year in a row avoiding major injuries to key players? The Hawks were remarkably healthy last season so there is room for slippage here.

#2 is key IMO. We all have to realize that Smoove has improved by leaps and bounds from his rookie year when he ran around like a newborn Giraffe and could basically only dunk on offense. His game has seriously improved every year - still - the steps between very good and elite get steeper. Marvin is Marvin. Horford will likely improve some but will still be saddled with center responsibilities. I think he has the most potential at this point though.

#3 We have been lucky on the injury front - all we can do is cross our fingers like everybody else. I would say more but I don't want to hex us.

[Vol4ever]

I can understand all of you trying to be positive BUT the problem is still setting there unsolved. Al Horford has basically screamed for help up front in the form of a Center because he believes he is a better PF. Management has refused to listen to his request. I believe we made the biggest mistake in franchise history by not signing Shaq and that would have made us a player in the playoffs. But with that said, we should have at least signed Kurt Thomas as he gave us fits in the playoffs.

What some dont understand is we will be fine during the regular season being undersized up front but when the playoffs come around is where Shaq or a Kurt Thomas would make a difference. The Celtics understand this and that is why they are championship material and the Hawks are not.

Enjoy the season because when the playoffs come around it will be the same old story.

[Duzit]

We've improved this much...

Other teams have improved thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis much...

See the difference in the amount of "i's"??? It's pretty substantial. That's the problem/question with our offseason. Have we done enough to stay in contention? Have we done enough to take the next step or will we see a 1st/2nd round playoff exit once more?

[ryandauwalker]

Looks pretty much the same to me. Having JC2 over Mario should be a plus, although I can't see JC2 having much of an impact unless we suffer an injury. Same with Powell (but to maybe even a lesser degree). Key for me is whether Teague's improvement can be much greater than Bibby's decline. I doubt Bibby will decline that much (and he may even come back rejuvenated)...so PG should be a mild plus. It looks pretty certain that our starting lineup will remain the same and...while there may be some improvement on a player-by-player basis, I think we are pretty much the same team as last year (now THAT's going out on a limb :biggrin: ).

It is impossible to judge coaching IMHO since LD has yet to coach a game in the NBA as headcoach. I tend to think (hope) that coachong will be a plus area though.

Still, we were pretty darn good last year and the guys got used to winning - so maybe the habit will continue! Improvement is always the goal but I'll take another 53 win season.

JC2 could be a huge pickup if they decide that Marvin is ineffective, and they slide Joe to the 3. Then JC2 fills in at backup 2 for JC1, Joe plays 3 with Marvin and Mo backing him up.

I'd like to see Marvin step up, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't want to throw JC2 in the mix at backup 2 already, but that might put our best team (Bibby/JC/Joe/Josh/Al) starting out.

[macdaddy]

Other than the Heat who has really improved dramatically? The Celtics are old and just got older. They will still be good but i can't say that they will be as good as they were in the playoffs this year. Cleveland is terrible now. Orlando is basically the same except VC is 33 (well past the age when Joe Johnson will have broken down and become worthless right?)

And remember everyone else in the East needed to improve a lot just to be as good as us. That's the point. Its an unknown whether the Bulls, Bucks, Wiz(please!), Sixers will function at a high level or not. We already KNOW the Hawks will.

My regret is that we're sitting here with money to spend and shipped Chill off for no talent in return. I think he would have plugged in nicely. Especially in a motion offense or whatever we're calling it.

[Dragitoff]

Other than the Heat who has really improved dramatically? The Celtics are old and just got older. They will still be good but i can't say that they will be as good as they were in the playoffs this year. Cleveland is terrible now. Orlando is basically the same except VC is 33 (well past the age when Joe Johnson will have broken down and become worthless right?)

And remember everyone else in the East needed to improve a lot just to be as good as us. That's the point. Its an unknown whether the Bulls, Bucks, Wiz(please!), Sixers will function at a high level or not. We already KNOW the Hawks will.

My regret is that we're sitting here with money to spend and shipped Chill off for no talent in return. I think he would have plugged in nicely. Especially in a motion offense or whatever we're calling it.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Everyone keeps comparing this team to what COULD have been rather than what it is. We COULD have had LeBron James and Chris Bosh team up with Joe Johnson (yes it could have happened albeit one of the longest shots in history). Point is, we don't have that. We've got something we know works, at least in the regular season. Most of the so-called "improved" teams still have so many question marks.

Who can hit a 3 for Chicago? They dealt away their only reliable and consistent 3 point shooter. Who is going to play defense in the post for them? Noah is one of those "undersized" centers who rely on energy rather than brute strength. Boozer doesn't play any defense. Taj Gibson will be coming off the bench now and he's also one of those energy guys. What kind of depth do they have now as well?

Will Milwaukee actually improve and play like they did after Bogut's injury or was that just a prolongued hot-streak? Can Salmons actually play well for a team AFTER he signs a new contract or is only motivated when a contract is in play? Will Bogut be the player he once was upon returning from injury? Remember, they lost their depth by trading Gadz and losing Thomas in FA.

Is Shaq and Jermaine O'Neal an improvement over Kendrick Perkins and Rasheed Wallace? Can the Celtics stay healthy? Can the other players continue to overcompensate for Ray Allen's inability to guard anyone as they all continue to get older?

Those are the 3 teams most consider to have improved themselves in the offseason. I didn't include Miami because we'll just assume they replace Cleveland in the power rankings. Those are some very big question marks surrounding each of those teams. While the Hawks haven't gone out and made any "sexy" or news worthy moves, they've maintained continuity with their team which isn't necessarily a bad thing for a team that won 53 games last season and was the 3rd seed in the Eastern Conference.