Your Opinion?

[Vol4ever]

I have read many of the posts on the Squawk and the AJC.

I have noticed a lot of people were so fed up with Woody that Peter Pan would have been ok to be the next coach of this fianchise. Well, the Hawks went really cheap and hired Larry Drew. I have nothing against Larry Drew, but what does he bring to the table? (other than the I hate Woody crowd). This team has not improved in the frontcourt or the PG position. The Hawks needed 2 thngs in the offseason - 1 - a legit big man and 2 - a veteran lead guard. The GM did not accomplish either and I am beggining to think the GM position is just a yes man to the ownership.

The main problem with the Hawks last year was the point guard play. You cannot win without a leader at Point in the playoffs. Teague is not ecready to be a starting point in this league and that is because Woody did not play him enough last year. Definitely at rookie like JC2 cannot lead a verteran team.

I am just frustrated Hawk fan of over 30 years that has seen this situation before in Atlanta. I believe based on my past experience with this team and watching the NBA for over 30 years that this will be a LONG season in Atlanta. I do not think Larry Drew is head coach material and it is already showing in the pre-season. Hope i'm wrong and only time will tell.

Start hammering boys......................................

[HawkItus]

I have read many of the posts on the Squawk and the AJC.

I have noticed a lot of people were so fed up with Woody that Peter Pan would have been ok to be the next coach of this fianchise. Well, the Hawks went really cheap and hired Larry Drew. I have nothing against Larry Drew, but what does he bring to the table? (other than the I hate Woody crowd). This team has not improved in the frontcourt or the PG position. The Hawks needed 2 thngs in the offseason - 1 - a legit big man and 2 - a veteran lead guard. The GM did not accomplish either and I am beggining to think the GM position is just a yes man to the ownership.

The main problem with the Hawks last year was the point guard play. You cannot win without a leader at Point in the playoffs. Teague is not ecready to be a starting point in this league and that is because Woody did not play him enough last year. Definitely at rookie like JC2 cannot lead a verteran team.

I am just frustrated Hawk fan of over 30 years that has seen this situation before in Atlanta. I believe based on my past experience with this team and watching the NBA for over 30 years that this will be a LONG season in Atlanta. I do not think Larry Drew is head coach material and it is already showing in the pre-season. Hope i'm wrong and only time will tell.

Start hammering boys......................................

2 questions Vol........In your opinon what has changed for the worst with this team since last year? and considering your answer is that enough to cost us more than 5 games in the standings?

[spotatl]

I think that the offense is going to take a big step back this season because they are going to have a ton more turnovers asking guys to do things that they aren't good at. And I do think thats going to cost them 5 games in the standings.

Put it this way... What do you think the odds are that the Hawks lose 7 more games than last season? Because thats what the over/under is in vegas right now for the team. (46.5) If you are confident that the Hawks won't take a step back you should go ahead and bet and make some serious money.

Edited October 15, 2010 by spotatl

[HawkItus]

I think that the offense is going to take a big step back this season because they are going to have a ton more turnovers asking guys to do things that they aren't good at. And I do think thats going to cost them 5 games in the standings.

Put it this way? What do you think the odds are that the Hawks lose 7 more games than last season? Because thats what the over/under is in vegas right now for the team. If you are confident that the Hawks won't take a step back you should go ahead and bet and make some serious money.

Spotatl,

here is the thing, if our offense change cost us 7 games, I can think of 7 games last years offensive approach lost us. And can aslo think of 3 or 4 games our defensive approach lost us. So let's say we win 3 games that we would of lost because of ISO Joe in the 4th and 2 games that the switch defense would have lost us last year. That's only a 2 win difference. I'll take that. Honestly, we can't say much about this team until the playoffs. No matter how well they do in the regular season it will be discounted until they win(compete) in a second round series.

[spotatl]

I can think of 7 games last years offensive approach lost us. And can aslo think of 3 or 4 games our defensive approach lost us

This is what I don't get. You really think that the Hawks were a 63 win team with a different approach?

Edited October 15, 2010 by spotatl

[HawkItus]

This is what I don't get. You really think that the Hawks were a 63 win team with a different approach?

No because you have the buzzer beater wins that could have gone either way. Also, you have the injury games that would have been different if the other team was healthy. 2nd of the back to back games that we got a tired team to beat etc. What, I'm saying is it all washes out in the end. In my opinion we are beter than a .500 team. How much better is an unmeasurable amount so why not just take the last year as a good guesstimate until they prove otherwise.

[AHF]

My assumption is that the Hawks will not win as many games in the regular season because we enjoyed fantastic health last season, because change means growing pains, and because the East is flat out better, but I expect if Larry Drew was a worthwhile hire then we should be more competitive in the post-season. The jury is out on Larry Drew for me. He is talking a good talk but we'll see what he delivers. I was very skeptical of the hire but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he has a chance to put his system in place.

After 5 years to put in place defensive and offensive systems, I felt Woody's methods set us up for failure in the post-season. Most seasons I also felt we underachieved in the regular season but I don't think that about last year - we got all we could out of last year's regular season.

[Chickenstanley]

I don't really believe that you can simpky throw the situation today in with the past 30 years!

There are none of the same people involved. Very few things remain the same or constant enough over a 30 year period to use as method for predicting, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement for the current management/team --- just that I think the logic behind your post might have a bit emotionally based -- at the time you wrote it.

The truth is that Atlanta has never really supported the Hawks and thus, they have never had the money to become the Lakers's or Celtics. The question of whether the horse should first pull the carraige or vice-versa --- is one for the ages. But I do understand your frustration.

I started following/watching the Hawks with Joe Caldwell/Bill Bridges, etc back in the '60's -- when I was no more than 6 y/o and my grandmother listened to Skip Carey on her transistor radio every game. I used to fall alseep to Hawks games in my ear. I attended games versus the Wilt/West Lakers.

But you know, the Bulls were always pretty much garbage and also-ran's for most of their franchise history as well, before the early '90's. As was San Antonio. As were the Pistons before the late 80's.

The formula continues to be reset based on the latest results. But I really don't believe there is such of a thing as a "magic formula" (2-3 superstars, etc) Superstars aren't made until they win (save for press-induced superstars such as "you know who" --- who have never won anything and are not legitimate)

The thing that strikes me is that the "new winning style" is often something different than the current one. This does make sense, doesn't it? They're often the mirror image of what has recently been successful for the last several years or even decade.

Innovators seem to start a winning trend. Not followers. I believe that LD was preaching this and that is why he was hired. With the fringe befefit of him being dirt cheap to boot. Not a completely riduculous gamble by Hawks management, imo.

But no endorsements from me on anyone/anything until they actually prove something.

CS

[frosgrim]

I am also taking a wait and see with JD. I like what I hear, but let's see if the guys will listen to it when the game is on the line. That is the true indication of buyin from the players. Since JD is the Hawks HC, I want him to be the next greatest coach in the NBA. I can say I have a much better feeling about Drew than I did when BK hired Woodson.

In terms of Sund as a puppet for the owners. Absolutely. Last year I thought he had good autonomy, but this summer's problems indicate that he has a very short leash and Gearon Jr holds it. However, I would imagine that at least half of the GMs in the NBA are relatively tied down by what ownership wants to do.

[Vol4ever]

2 questions Vol........In your opinon what has changed for the worst with this team since last year? and considering your answer is that enough to cost us more than 5 games in the standings?

What "has not" happened that has made the team worse this offseason. We needed 2 things this offseason 1 - PG 2 - Big. I think other teams improved in the eastern conference and our division. We have a ownership problem that is ran by those that do not have the money to operate a franchise.

What is needed by this team is so simple even us fans see it.

[Chickenstanley]

Ownership money problems certainly can't be blamed for the Knicks and Portland not faring any better. Paul Allen is probably worth $5-$10 for every $1 that Mark Cuban is-- who coincidently has still not been able to use his money to purchase a Championship either.

CS

[Chickenstanley]

To somewhat expound on the above, it seems that the cable rights, ticket sales and other similiar revenue streams are the keys that allow some managements the freedom to spend big ---as many here would like to see. I believe that these things are also what determines the value of the franchise.

The Knicks haven't won anything in years, yet they still have the ability to spend. This example suggests that a fan base must be in place BEFORE a team can spend big in an effort to win a title.

But spending is no guarantee that you will win. But it can send an existing large loyal fan base the message that you are *trying* ---and keep these fans aboard, fill them with hope, etc. For the Hawks, this would be like preaching to a congregation of three ---- and then going out and buying a "church jet" in hopes of attracting enough new members to pay for it.

I believe it technically can work the other way as well ---- but in Atlanta, it might be constituted as *gambling* or a very "poor expectation" bet to spend big and bet "on the come".

"Win-first and they will come" ---------- worked for the Braves in the early '90's. But they didn't "win first" because they spent big up front.

Most folks tend to require at least a reasonably strong hand before raising.

CS

[NineOhTheRino]

3 names for all you old school ATL sports fans: Terry Stotts, Ray Goff & June Jones

Don't expect this one to end differently!

Edited October 18, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[Vol4ever]

3 names for all you old school ATL sports fans: Terry Stotts, Ray Goff & June Jones

Don't expect this one to end differently!

Damn Rino that is a punch in the gut!

[HawkItus]

3 names for all you old school ATL sports fans: Terry Stotts, Ray Goff & June Jones

Don't expect this one to end differently!

I'll see your Terry Stotts and raise you a Mike Fratello.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Ownership, if they really wanted to make a run at a title, or at the very least generating revenue, could've made a tremendous splash in the offseason. It would've taken a financial commitment from them. Just remember folks, this is what the front office passed on:

- hiring Avery Johnson as coach

- using the #31 pick on a young big man

- finding a way to re-sign Josh Childress, or at least get a player for him

- trading someone on this team, or using the full MLE to acquire Shaq

Had ownership just done 2 of these 4 things ( especially if they would've hire Avery as coach and acquired Shaq ), fan apathy would be minimal and the buzz around the Hawks would've definitely be at a high level. And that's including what we kind of see in Jordan Crawford.

Instead, this is what the Hawks did:

- hired Larry Drew as coach

- traded the #31 for 3 million

- traded Childress for a 3+ million trade exception

- re-signed Jason Collins

- signed Josh Powell

- signed Etan Thomas

When you look at those moves, compared to what we could have realistically done, you see why people are upset and even expect less out of this Hawks team.

Contrary to popular belief amongst Hawks fans, it was the defense that was the main problem last year, not the offense. Even in those games in which we couldn't score in the 4th quarter, those games were also times in which our defense broke down the most.

If the Hawks are up 11 points in the 4th, they should still be able to win a game, even if they only score 15 points. But what would happen, is that we couldn't stop the other team ( usually the other team's PG ), and we'd lose by 6, because we'd given up 32 points in the final quarter.

Tonight's game vs Orlando, has to be a little more than a "it's just preseason" game. Orlando has been steamrolling people this preseason, basically playing their main 9 to 10 man rotation. This is the Hawks first dress rehearsal against the team that has dominated them for the past 2 seasons.

Can they prove to the fans, and most importantly, to themselves, that they can compete against this team?

We all know what happened last preseason . . . the completely embarassed us on national TV. Let's see what happens tonight. Injuries or no injuries, I want to see this team at least compete tonight . . both starters and the bench.

[Vol4ever]

Ownership, if they really wanted to make a run at a title, or at the very least generating revenue, could've made a tremendous splash in the offseason. It would've taken a financial commitment from them. Just remember folks, this is what the front office passed on:

- hiring Avery Johnson as coach

- using the #31 pick on a young big man

- finding a way to re-sign Josh Childress, or at least get a player for him

- trading someone on this team, or using the full MLE to acquire Shaq

Had ownership just done 2 of these 4 things ( especially if they would've hire Avery as coach and acquired Shaq ), fan apathy would be minimal and the buzz around the Hawks would've definitely be at a high level. And that's including what we kind of see in Jordan Crawford.

Instead, this is what the Hawks did:

- hired Larry Drew as coach

- traded the #31 for 3 million

- traded Childress for a 3+ million trade exception

- re-signed Jason Collins

- signed Josh Powell

- signed Etan Thomas

When you look at those moves, compared to what we could have realistically done, you see why people are upset and even expect less out of this Hawks team.

Contrary to popular belief amongst Hawks fans, it was the defense that was the main problem last year, not the offense. Even in those games in which we couldn't score in the 4th quarter, those games were also times in which our defense broke down the most.

If the Hawks are up 11 points in the 4th, they should still be able to win a game, even if they only score 15 points. But what would happen, is that we couldn't stop the other team ( usually the other team's PG ), and we'd lose by 6, because we'd given up 32 points in the final quarter.

Tonight's game vs Orlando, has to be a little more than a "it's just preseason" game. Orlando has been steamrolling people this preseason, basically playing their main 9 to 10 man rotation. This is the Hawks first dress rehearsal against the team that has dominated them for the past 2 seasons.

Can they prove to the fans, and most importantly, to themselves, that they can compete against this team?

We all know what happened last preseason . . . the completely embarassed us on national TV. Let's see what happens tonight. Injuries or no injuries, I want to see this team at least compete tonight . . both starters and the bench.

Good post and spot on. Looks like our fears came true tonite as the Magic made us look once again like a D League team. This franchise has NO commitment to winning. Stone me all u want for those who think Drew will turn this around, I dont buy it one iota!

[Dejay]

I'll see your Terry Stotts and raise you a Mike Fratello.

Please turn in your chips, fellas; I got this hand won. I'll see your Mike Fratello with Marion Campbell's second run with the Falcons, Eddie Haas, and Bob Weiss. I'm all in....

[RT3]

Ownership, if they really wanted to make a run at a title, or at the very least generating revenue, could've made a tremendous splash in the offseason. It would've taken a financial commitment from them. Just remember folks, this is what the front office passed on:

- hiring Avery Johnson as coach

- using the #31 pick on a young big man

- finding a way to re-sign Josh Childress, or at least get a player for him

- trading someone on this team, or using the full MLE to acquire Shaq

Had ownership just done 2 of these 4 things ( especially if they would've hire Avery as coach and acquired Shaq ), fan apathy would be minimal and the buzz around the Hawks would've definitely be at a high level. And that's including what we kind of see in Jordan Crawford.

Instead, this is what the Hawks did:

- hired Larry Drew as coach

- traded the #31 for 3 million

- traded Childress for a 3+ million trade exception

- re-signed Jason Collins

- signed Josh Powell

- signed Etan Thomas

When you look at those moves, compared to what we could have realistically done, you see why people are upset and even expect less out of this Hawks team.

Contrary to popular belief amongst Hawks fans, it was the defense that was the main problem last year, not the offense. Even in those games in which we couldn't score in the 4th quarter, those games were also times in which our defense broke down the most.

If the Hawks are up 11 points in the 4th, they should still be able to win a game, even if they only score 15 points. But what would happen, is that we couldn't stop the other team ( usually the other team's PG ), and we'd lose by 6, because we'd given up 32 points in the final quarter.

Tonight's game vs Orlando, has to be a little more than a "it's just preseason" game. Orlando has been steamrolling people this preseason, basically playing their main 9 to 10 man rotation. This is the Hawks first dress rehearsal against the team that has dominated them for the past 2 seasons.

Can they prove to the fans, and most importantly, to themselves, that they can compete against this team?

We all know what happened last preseason . . . the completely embarassed us on national TV. Let's see what happens tonight. Injuries or no injuries, I want to see this team at least compete tonight . . both starters and the bench.

Great points man, and regarding you comments about competing against the Magic tonight, that is also exactly what I was saying about the Hawks having some pride in the other thread:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/352591-tonights-game-online/

Other people just say it's a 'preseason' game, but it's more than that if you are a competitor and on a winning franchise. We have been destroyed by the Magic in almost every game for the past 2 years or more.

What did we show tonight? We showed that we are very far off from being able to compete with the Magic. If we don't make any trades this season for a center or point guard, then we have no chance of beating this team. Teague still has a chance to prove himself at point, but I highly doubt what he adds to the team will be enough to take us to elite status.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's just sad to see. Beatdown after beatdown. Orlando knows that they only have to punch us in the mouth one time, and we're done.