Keep the core?

[Joker]

I thought that I was meeting your criteria by trading Smith. At least Randolph has a low-post offensive game and is a tremendous rebounder.

This is one of the things Hawks fans have to remember when suggesting players on the same tier or less talented than Smoove. Even with the good that some players can bring, they also bring their bad. With that said, you bring Zach R, you bring horrible defense and make it impossible to win in the East. That's the thing you have to remember. Too many guys here want to trade Josh for players who only make us worst. We just don't have the cap to make a bad move.

Also has a huge expiring. Something people should be more open to if they ever want to see a superstar on this roster.

We don't have cap even without Smith. We can't even get a MLE without him. We are cap tied. Stop thinking we have a lot of cap like the Knicks, we have too many contracts.

[capstone21]

This is one of the things Hawks fans have to remember when suggesting players on the same tier or less talented than Smoove. Even with the good that some players can bring, they also bring their bad. With that said, you bring Zach R, you bring horrible defense and make it impossible to win in the East. That's the thing you have to remember. Too many guys here want to trade Josh for players who only make us worst. We just don't have the cap to make a bad move.

We don't have cap even without Smith. We can't even get a MLE without him. We are cap tied. Stop thinking we have a lot of cap like the Knicks, we have too many contracts.

Personally, Smith fustrates me a lot but I don't want us to trade him to just trade him. I think we should use him as a trade chip to get the right piece back. Zach is def not that. He has great stats but he is not a good chemistry player. There is a reason why he gets shipped from place to place after he left Portland (who btw were trying to get rid of him long before they did).

If we are going to trade Smith it needs to be for player(s) who would make us a better team and answer our needs.

[lethalweapon3]

It might as well be called...

The Core^TM

(trademarked by Rick Sund and the Notorious A$G, 2008-2011, All Rights Reserved)

Just because the ownership and management insist they have a core^TM doesn't mean the fans agree. I'd argue that the trend in ticket sales should give them some idea whether fans are in lockstep with such terminology.

~lw3

[niremetal]

Personally, Smith fustrates me a lot but I don't want us to trade him to just trade him. I think we should use him as a trade chip to get the right piece back. Zach is def not that. He has great stats but he is not a good chemistry player. There is a reason why he gets shipped from place to place after he left Portland (who btw were trying to get rid of him long before they did).

If we are going to trade Smith it needs to be for player(s) who would make us a better team and answer our needs.

I disagree. At this point, I'd be willing to accept a small (key: small) downgrade from Josh at any position other than SG. I think the time has come for change for the sake of change. These guys have too many bad habits with each other that can only be changed if they are jolted out of their complacency and forced to adjust to the permanent presence of a new key player and/or the permanent absence of a current key player. I think the gains we would achieve by hitting the reset button in that way would outweigh a small downgrade in terms of talent.

The same would be true for JJ too, but I don't think trading him for only a small downgrade is feasible.

Edited January 28, 2011 by niremetal

[sasuke]

You really wouldn't deal him for Dwight Howard? I am not sure people mean "untouchable" when they say that about any of our players.

Do you think Orlando would swap Howard for Al? Since things like that will never happen, he's untouchable.

[AHF]

Do you think Orlando would swap Howard for Al? Since things like that will never happen, he's untouchable.

I don't but if you assume you will never get an offer for a player that is worth more than the player, then every player in the league is "untouchable" and that kind of "conditionally untouchable" seems meaningless.

Untouchable means there isn't an offer that would get you to move him. In a league where the Lakers picked up Pau Gasol for little, where they shopped Kobe Bryant and traded Shaq, where Kareem was traded in his prime for not that much, where Wilt was traded in his prime for nothing significant to the 76ers, etc. and then traded again for nothing significant to the Lakers where he won a title with them, I don't see how anyone can assume that Al Horford couldn't attract something significant in an offer under the right circumstances.

If Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq can get traded for lesser parts, I am not willing to assume that Horford couldn't merit something attractive in a trade (particularly if Dwight is holding Orlando hostage with a threat to leave ala Carmelo).

Edited January 30, 2011 by AHF

[Endy9]

I vote no out of fear. The last time i heard break up the core to get younger and better, we got rid of Mutumbo, Steve Smith and Mookie Blaylock and sucked for 10 years with people like Isiah Rider.

[sasuke]

I don't but if you assume you will never get an offer for a player that is worth more than the player, then every player in the league is "untouchable" and that kind of "conditionally untouchable" seems meaningless.

Untouchable means there isn't an offer that would get you to move him. In a league where the Lakers picked up Pau Gasol for little, where they shopped Kobe Bryant and traded Shaq, where Kareem was traded in his prime for not that much, where Wilt was traded in his prime for nothing significant to the 76ers, etc. and then traded again for nothing significant to the Lakers where he won a title with them, I don't see how anyone can assume that Al Horford couldn't attract something significant in an offer under the right circumstances.

If Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq can get traded for lesser parts, I am not willing to assume that Horford couldn't merit something attractive in a trade (particularly if Dwight is holding Orlando hostage with a threat to leave ala Carmelo).

We are not the Lakers. It doesn't go simpler than that. And just in case we aren't in NY, Boston, Miami, Chicago or any other big city that appeals superstars.

But, let me be more specific to make you happy: Under normal circumstances &/or based on Hawks FO pattern Horford is untouchable.

[AHF]

We are not the Lakers. It doesn't go simpler than that. And just in case we aren't in NY, Boston, Miami, Chicago or any other big city that appeals superstars.

But, let me be more specific to make you happy: Under normal circumstances &/or based on Hawks FO pattern Horford is untouchable.

This is not just an LA, Boston, NY sort of thing.

Atlanta acquired Nique by trade, Mookie Blalock by trade, Steve Smith by trade, Mike Bibby by trade, among others

Chicago acquired Pippen by trade

Philly acquired Wilt by trade as well as Mutombo

Phoenix acquired the Chuck Wagon by trade (for Horny and Andrew Lang, no less) and got Nash by trade for freaking Pat Garrity

The Nets got a huge upgrade to Jason Kidd by dealing empty-stat Starbury

Washington got Caron Butler for Kwame freaking Brown

Detroit got multiple DPOY Ben Wallace by trade without any real leverage and got Rip for a low impact chucker (Stack)

The Clippers got Elton Brand and Nique by trade

Miami got Shaq

Golden State got studly Baron Davis for Speedy and Dale Davis

Houston got T-Mac for Steve Francis and got Luis Scola for nothing

Dallas got Dirk by trade

Denver got Billups for obviously-past-the-prime AI

Sacramento picked up a prime Webber by trade

Seattle got Ray Allen for a shell-of-his-former-self GP

In fact, I don't know why you wouldn't include Boston and LA since Boston and LA completed some of those trades (like McHale, Parrish, Wilt, etc.) WAY before players had any real say in the matter where the whole "Big City" leverage thing would be relevant. Not to mention the fact that NBA players like the City of Atlanta a lot more than many of the places listed above.

[lethalweapon3]

I vote no out of fear. The last time i heard break up the core to get younger and better, we got rid of Mutumbo, Steve Smith and Mookie Blaylock and sucked for 10 years with people like Isiah Rider.

Did you mean to vote "Yes" or am I misreading?

~lw3