Who do you consider the hawks BIG 3?

[pimp]

And then you have Bibby and Marvin who fit great right alongside our big 4.

I disagree with that.Both of the those guys need to be replaced

in the starting lineup , if we want to be a real contender.

[Marvin24Williams]

Jeff Teague, Mo Evans, Etan Thomas.

[Crank]

Flip averaged 12 points on 10 shots.

JC is averaging 15.7 points on 12 shots.

Yet Flip couldn't get extended the minimum to stay with the hawks. Shame "fans" actually feel crawford is a big 3. I'm betting any type of sig bet he gets traded this year.

Flip aint even in the league anymore you should stop the maddness . If you cut Jamal today he would be signed to a contender tomorrow .

As for people who say Jamal doesnt do anything else hes lead this team in assists quite a few time s and his shot wasnt falling last night and he led the team in assists . At a certain point you have to wonder are people actually watching the games or are they watching and just making things up for the sake of argument.

But anyway we dont have a Big three . We dont have a #1 caliber player on our team and you certainly cant have a big three made up of 2nd and 3rd options .

If you dont believe me watch the drastic changes that occur if someone doesnt establish themselves as a #1 in the playoffs. If no steps up we will move two or three of these guys for someone that can .

[Crank]

Smith with 29/16 tonight. I don't recall Crawford having too many games like that. Crawford was 3-12 tonight but it seems like people quickly forget about he when he is firing blanks.

Jamal led the team in assists and this is the Wizards we are talking about here so I wouldnt be touting Joshs numbers as if they are against a playoff team . I do recall Jamal going into Utah and posting 26 4 and 5 off the bench. Weve one two games in Utah after having not one there in 17 years.

Jamal has (14) 20 pt games off the bench this year and I think hes leading the league in that category. No one else can do what he does off the bench under the circumstances in which he does it the fact that people dismiss it is pretty funny.

[AtLaS]

Flip averaged 12 points on 10 shots.

JC is averaging 15.7 points on 12 shots.

Yet Flip couldn't get extended the minimum to stay with the hawks. Shame "fans" actually feel crawford is a big 3. I'm betting any type of sig bet he gets traded this year.

Flip and Crawford aren't even remotely comparable.

[exodus]

Jamal led the team in assists and this is the Wizards we are talking about here so I wouldnt be touting Joshs numbers as if they are against a playoff team . I do recall Jamal going into Utah and posting 26 4 and 5 off the bench. Weve one two games in Utah after having not one there in 17 years.

Jamal has (14) 20 pt games off the bench this year and I think hes leading the league in that category. No one else can do what he does off the bench under the circumstances in which he does it the fact that people dismiss it is pretty funny.

The problem with Jamal is that he does nothing other than scoring. He is one of the worst rebounding guards in the league and doesn't play defense. he is a totally one dimensional player.

Smith can have a major impact on a game even when he isn't shooting well. Jamal can't and doesn't even try.

[JTB]

The problem with Jamal is that he does nothing other than scoring. He is one of the worst rebounding guards in the league and doesn't play defense. he is a totally one dimensional player.

Smith can have a major impact on a game even when he isn't shooting well. Jamal can't and doesn't even try.

thats very true, couldnt be anymore clear than that!

[Crank]

The problem with Jamal is that he does nothing other than scoring. He is one of the worst rebounding guards in the league and doesn't play defense. he is a totally one dimensional player.

Smith can have a major impact on a game even when he isn't shooting well. Jamal can't and doesn't even try.

So he should lead the league in rebounding for a guard OFF THE BENCH ? HE DOES PLAY DEFENSE !! Hes not a lockdown defender but this logic is quite disturbing because hes out there torching guys left or right are you saying they dont play any defense ? How does this two faced twisted logic work exactly ? When jamal scored those 3 straight baskets on Hinrich does that mean Hinrioch plays no defense ?

As i said already jamals shot was off the previous game he led us in assists and had 3 steals ? The double standards you are pushing is pretty funny .

Im not even going to mention how the starters blew the lead coming out of haltime and it was a tie game when jamal entered and those 3 straight baskets to to end the 3rd gave the hawks the lead back for good even though his shot was off . Its not always about percentages or filling the stat sheets its about when and how you do it .

Jamal comes of the bench and performs his role about as consistently as anyone in history

[Diesel]

Can we say Big 4?

So he should lead the league in rebounding for a guard OFF THE BENCH ? HE DOES PLAY DEFENSE !! Hes not a lockdown defender but this logic is quite disturbing because hes out there torching guys left or right are you saying they dont play any defense ? How does this two faced twisted logic work exactly ? When jamal scored those 3 straight baskets on Hinrich does that mean Hinrioch plays no defense ?

As i said already jamals shot was off the previous game he led us in assists and had 3 steals ? The double standards you are pushing is pretty funny .

Im not even going to mention how the starters blew the lead coming out of haltime and it was a tie game when jamal entered and those 3 straight baskets to to end the 3rd gave the hawks the lead back for good even though his shot was off . Its not always about percentages or filling the stat sheets its about when and how you do it .

Jamal comes of the bench and performs his role about as consistently as anyone in history

i PROMISE you that the same guys who fault Jamal for not being a great defensive guard will turn around and praise Dominique as the Hawks best player ever...

I promise!

[exodus]

So he should lead the league in rebounding for a guard OFF THE BENCH ? HE DOES PLAY DEFENSE !! Hes not a lockdown defender but this logic is quite disturbing because hes out there torching guys left or right are you saying they dont play any defense ? How does this two faced twisted logic work exactly ? When jamal scored those 3 straight baskets on Hinrich does that mean Hinrioch plays no defense ?

As i said already jamals shot was off the previous game he led us in assists and had 3 steals ? The double standards you are pushing is pretty funny .

Im not even going to mention how the starters blew the lead coming out of haltime and it was a tie game when jamal entered and those 3 straight baskets to to end the 3rd gave the hawks the lead back for good even though his shot was off . Its not always about percentages or filling the stat sheets its about when and how you do it .

Jamal comes of the bench and performs his role about as consistently as anyone in history

Jamal plays 31 minutes a game and gets only 1.8 rebounds. Bibby averages 2.5. There is absolutely no hustle in Jamal's game. He doesn't hustle back on defense, doesn't pressure the ball, contest shots or fight through screens. He is lazy and the team gives up 3 ppg more when he is playing.

Among shooting guards Crawford ranks 69th in rebounding rate out of 72 possible players.

click

The Hawks did just fine with min salary Flip Murray in the 6th man role. They sure couldn't find a min salary vet to play Smith's role.

Edited February 7, 2011 by exodus

[Diesel]

Jamal plays 31 minutes a game and gets only 1.8 rebounds. Bibby averages 2.5. There is absolutely no hustle in Jamal's game. He doesn't hustle back on defense, doesn't pressure the ball, contest shots or fight through screens. He is lazy and the team gives up 3 ppg more when he is playing.

Among shooting guards Crawford ranks 69th in rebounding rate out of 72 possible players.

click

The Hawks did just fine with min salary Flip Murray in the 6th man role. They sure couldn't find a min salary vet to play Smith's role.

I don't remember Flip taking over a game and helping us win when we were on our way to losing. That's the problem, you're busy looking at stats ,but you haven't see those time when Joe, Josh, and Al were off and Jamal stepped up and either kept us in the game or helped us win the game. Flip never did that. In fact, against good teams, where was Flip? That's why Flip was never considered for the 6th man. Not even a vote. He didn't do anything. Whereas, Jamal does many good things. Lastly, I don't think we have Jamal for his rebounding. That's the biggest Red Herring on this board. Why don't I talk about Horford's steals?

[exodus]

I don't remember Flip taking over a game and helping us win when we were on our way to losing. That's the problem, you're busy looking at stats ,but you haven't see those time when Joe, Josh, and Al were off and Jamal stepped up and either kept us in the game or helped us win the game. Flip never did that. In fact, against good teams, where was Flip? That's why Flip was never considered for the 6th man. Not even a vote. He didn't do anything. Whereas, Jamal does many good things. Lastly, I don't think we have Jamal for his rebounding. That's the biggest Red Herring on this board. Why don't I talk about Horford's steals?

Then you have a bad memory. Flip came up huge in the 4th quarter time and again bailing us out in tight games. Are you not aware that the play by plays are avaliable for all the games Flip played here? Do you really want me to show all the games where Flip came up big in the 4th to show how bad your memory is?

He was also a much better defender than Jamal.

The Hawks won 47 games with Flip here and Horford wasn't nearly as good on offense then as he is now.

Edited February 7, 2011 by exodus

[Diesel]

Then you have a bad memory. Flip came up huge in the 4th quarter time and again bailing us out in tight games. Are you not aware that the play by plays are avaliable for all the games Flip played here? Do you really want me to show all the games where Flip came up big in the 4th to show how bad your memory is?

He was also a much better defender than Jamal.

The Hawks won 47 games with Flip here and Horford wasn't nearly as good on offense then as he is now.

Now.. my memory says Flip finished games for us, but came up Huge??? NO... There's a difference between a guy you insert in the 4th and he can finish the game for you and a guy who you can play throughout the game and he comes in to lift the team when you need a lift.....and he can finish a game for you.

We couldn't count on Flip without JJ or Smoove being on the court to help open lanes for him. Jamal actually is the exact opposite, he creates his own shots and defenses have to focus on him and leave JJ and Smoove open.

As you were saying, you were going to show me all these games...

I will just say this: Two time sixth man of the year! Last year was damn near unanimous.

Then there's flip..

"Crawford led the team in scoring 27 times this season and proved a high-caliber finisher.

"Without him, a lot of games, we probably wouldn't have won," guard Joe Johnson said. "I'm very thankful for him."

Crawford won with 580 points, earning 110 out of 122 first-place votes."

Flip = Crawford?? really???? Really?!?? REALLY???!!!!?

[exodus]

Now.. my memory says Flip finished games for us, but came up Huge??? NO... There's a difference between a guy you insert in the 4th and he can finish the game for you and a guy who you can play throughout the game and he comes in to lift the team when you need a lift.....and he can finish a game for you.

We couldn't count on Flip without JJ or Smoove being on the court to help open lanes for him. Jamal actually is the exact opposite, he creates his own shots and defenses have to focus on him and leave JJ and Smoove open.

As you were saying, you were going to show me all these games...

I will just say this: Two time sixth man of the year! Last year was damn near unanimous.

Then there's flip..

If Crawford played only 25 minutes per game he wouldn't have led the team in scoring very often and would have been far less likely to win the 6th man award.

"Crawford led the team in scoring 27 times this season and proved a high-caliber finisher.

"Without him, a lot of games, we probably wouldn't have won," guard Joe Johnson said. "I'm very thankful for him."

Crawford won with 580 points, earning 110 out of 122 first-place votes."

Flip = Crawford?? really???? Really?!?? REALLY???!!!!?

If Crawford played only 25 minutes per game he would have been much less likely to win 6th man or lead the team in scoring. Scoring at his current per minute rate if Jamal played 25 minutes he would be averaging 13 ppg. Flip averaged 12.

[Crank]

If Crawford played only 25 minutes per game he would have been much less likely to win 6th man or lead the team in scoring. Scoring at his current per minute rate if Jamal played 25 minutes he would be averaging 13 ppg. Flip averaged 12.

Well see thats the problem . Crawford is a STARTING CALIBER SG that comes off our bench whereas Flip was a minimum minute role player .

You do know that Flip is not even in the nba anymore and Jamal is on his way to a 2nd 6th man of the year award ?

Its true that Jamal couldve just played 25 mpg but its also true that players of jamals caliber dont play ONLY 25 mpg .

Jamal is a elite score ELITE yes I said said thats right its not a typo ELITE SCORER . He may not rebound well but he scores as good as anyone in the league and that in itself is extremely valuable .

I saw last night where he is leading all bench scorers again and has the most 20 pt games of the bench AGAIN and that there has been ONE 30 pt game off the bench from another player this year ..Well Jamal has three and its not even the all star break yet .

You keep talking about the things he cant do when the things he can do are up there with the best in the league.

[exodus]

:laughing5:

Crawford's career average is 15.6 ppg shooting 41%. That is pretty far from elite.

[Diesel]

:laughing5:

Crawford's career average is 15.6 ppg shooting 41%. That is pretty far from elite.

You're good for a sound byte... too bad, you can't make a sound argument.

People who watch knows that value of Jamal to this team. He's been called MJ off the bench and Superman off the bench by other players. He has received more #1 votes for the 6th man of the year than anybody else who has received it in the history of the award.

Now Flip... Wasn't bad. He filled in nicely for Ray Allen some years ago. He also played well with Lebron. However, Flip is not in the same class as Crawford.

[AHF]

Crawford is clearly better than Flip and Flip notably had his career season playing for us like Crawford is having his career years playing with us. That said, Crawford was dealt for garbage just to unload his salary before he was with us and is definitely a one-dimensional player. I don't see how anyone can think he impacts the game on both ends of the floor or is anything but a terribly subpar rebounder even for the position he plays and the minutes he plays. He is a great bench scorer who has hit his career peak here. That was a great trade for him but he isn't a cornerstone player on the level of Josh, IMO. To me, he is clearly after our top 3 and clearly ahead of the rest of the lineup as far as his impact.

[exodus]

You're good for a sound byte... too bad, you can't make a sound argument.

People who watch knows that value of Jamal to this team.

And the vast majority people who watch do not have Crawford in their big 3.

[AtLaS]

Crawford performs the same role that Flip had here, except he's a lot better. He's a better passer, 3pt and free throw shooter and an even more dangerous scorer.

I will agree that Crawford is one of the worst rebounders in the NBA, but at least he's a guard so it doesn't hurt us too bad. For the role that Crawford plays on this team, he's a great fit. Now, if Crawford is the starting SG on the team it's not great for the team because of his style of play and his lack of consistency. But, coming off the bench and playing with backups when we need scoring it's OK for him to fire away.

That said, I would not put Crawford ahead of Josh, Al, or Joe in any scenario. On some nights, he is one of the big three but his inconsistent style of play cannot vault him above Josh.