Do we need to get rid of Marvin? or should we rid Jamal or Bibby?

[BrazilianHawk]

I can't disagree with you on this. The Hawks need to look at the big picture rather than simply being fixated on being more competitive this year. With that said, if the Hawks want to have a chance to truly contend (by adding a major player in a year or so), they absolutely have to find a way to move both Marvin and ZaZa, especially Marvin. Jamal and Bibby are not the issue since their contracts are not long term. Marvin and ZaZa are bigger threats because their contracts run longer and neither player is close to providing the value their contracts indicate they should. Trading Jamal and Bibby for a quick fix will not help this team get into a position to be a true contender. It would only ensure more mediocrity and could further threaten the Hawks chances of making a impactful move down the line by saddling them with another long contract. I have to agree with the Hawks stance. Why trade Bibby or Jamal when their contracts will be ending shortly? Unless it's a move that makes the team a legit contender, they just should'nt do it. Marvin and ZaZa are the players they should be trying to move so that they can get more cap space for the next off season.

That's true... but by your reasoning we should get rid of JJ as well. I believe there will be more takers for Joe's contract than Marv's.

[Nicholasp27]

we gotta trade jamal

1. he'll bring back more than marvin/bibby

2. he's walking this summer for nothing b/c we aren't paying to keep him

3. he's the reason we've digressed back to iso plays, because when he comes in we abandon motion for his iso...hawks are the 3rd worst team in the league at points from iso plays yet we do it all the time...if we get rid of jamal, we can go all-in on the motion offense

4. by trading him for a pg like harris we upgrade pg AND our defense (bibby now 6th man and jamal's no d gone) while not hurting our offense (maybe helping)

[coachx]

we gotta trade jamal

1. he'll bring back more than marvin/bibby

2. he's walking this summer for nothing b/c we aren't paying to keep him

3. he's the reason we've digressed back to iso plays, because when he comes in we abandon motion for his iso...hawks are the 3rd worst team in the league at points from iso plays yet we do it all the time...if we get rid of jamal, we can go all-in on the motion offense

4. by trading him for a pg like harris we upgrade pg AND our defense (bibby now 6th man and jamal's no d gone) while not hurting our offense (maybe helping)

Your totally blinded to the big white elephant in the room. How can you miss it ?

Crawford's expiring contract is what allows Horford to get his 1st raise from his rookie scaled contract.

Trading Crawford for a longer contract puts the Hawks in luxury tax. The ASG will not pay luxury tax.......though I hope they prove me wrong.

Edited February 22, 2011 by coachx

[Nicholasp27]

That don't make sense? What Basketball player is anything if his shot isn't falling?

i guess ben wallace and dennis rodman were nothing when their shots weren't falling?

i guess cp3/deron's assists when their shots aren't falling mean nothing?

there is more than just making a shot to helping your team....defense, rebounding, drawing fouls, assists, steals, blocks, etc

some players contribute 90% of their value by making shots...so if not falling, they are only 10% of their worth (or less if they shoot a ton and go 3-17)

other players contribute 90% of their value by doing other things than making shots....so if not falling, they are still 90% of their worth

Your totally blinded to the big white elephant in the room. How can you miss it ?

Crawford's expiring contract is what allows Horford to get his 1st raise from his rookie scaled contract.

Trading Crawford for a longer contract puts the Hawks in luxury tax. The ASG will not pay luxury tax.......though I hope they prove me wrong.

I understand that it's unlikely we'll trade him because ASG doesn't want to pay the luxury tax

but that doesn't make me wrong that we SHOULD trade crawford

all keeping crawford does is get us another 6th man of the year award and saves the ASG money when he walks in the summer

trading him gives us a chance to be better

[Crank]

Add the 2011 & 2013 1rst round picks to those players & you will get something better in return, "that's NBA trade tactics 101". I don't understand why ppl don't want to trade those damned picks.

And for the ppl who think that Jamal > than Marvin:

Marvin's mediocre scoring + his rebounding & defense > Jamal's scoring. Not debatable, stats sometimes are just a joke.

You will get something better in return but that wont change what this team has become . Get your head out of the sand its not about those three players .

The fact is that next season we will have 3 players taking up more than 50% of our cap and none of those three is a all nba caliber player . Good players ? YES !! but not great players and until we get a great player that the league respects or one of the three takes that next step to greatness then it wont matter how you shuffle the deck the outcome will be the same.

and for what its worth

jamals ability to

create his own shot for himself

create shots for others

ability to shoot the three

ability to get to and make foul shots

owns Marvins sometimes offense erratic rebounding and ability to trip over his own feet every other play .

Im so tired of hearing this whining about defense while ignoring the fact that entire team has brain freezes at the craziest times .

Not just Jamal not just Bibby EVERYONE to keep overlooking these facts is ridiculous

[AHF]

Crawford is clearly better than Marvin.

Harris is better than Crawford given our desperate need to upgrade the PG position and Crawford's inability to satisfy that need.

If we are willing to pay to pay the tax, we should try to deal Marvin first but then Crawford when they want something more valuable.

[Crank]

we gotta trade jamal

1. he'll bring back more than marvin/bibby

2. he's walking this summer for nothing b/c we aren't paying to keep him

3. he's the reason we've digressed back to iso plays, because when he comes in we abandon motion for his iso...hawks are the 3rd worst team in the league at points from iso plays yet we do it all the time...if we get rid of jamal, we can go all-in on the motion offense

4. by trading him for a pg like harris we upgrade pg AND our defense (bibby now 6th man and jamal's no d gone) while not hurting our offense (maybe helping)

so jamal is the reason we are back to running isolations ? what ?

When jamal is in the game he is either spotting up for three spreading the floor or running a bunch of screen and roll plays .

As I said in the summer the motion will only go as far as the bigs want it to go because the key to a motion offense is not the guards but the bigs and there willingness to expend huge amounts of energy screening and moving .

We have a become a small slow team there used to be times where Al and Josh would go for every rebound and try and outlet it as fast as possible and then sprint hard down the floor . Now they wait for someone to come and get it and walk it up most of the time . Because now its about conserving energy and simply calling for the ball .

Watch the game tonight and chart how many times we run how many times multiple screens are set .

We could have Rondo and we would still struggle defensively simply because we are small in the middle and dont control the paint

How many individual players have you seen shutdown Joe or jamal ? because Im quite sure Ive never seen any individual do it . but I have seen countless teams run multiple players at them and drive them right into the help defense even the Celts and Spurs do it . Do they blame every defensive problems on there guards ? NO because in the nba guards score they always have they always will you have to have a sound team defense .

What Im seeing is that far too many people have basically blamed everything on Bibby and jamal and it to the point where now when Al or Josh or Marvin or whoever misses a assignment or makes a mistake its all attributed to Bibby and Jamal..

Until Josh,Al,and Joe decide to play like that just getting paid isnt good enough then it doesnt matter how you shuffle that deck . They are treating the city and team like the ugly chick that you can treat anyway you want and she wont leave you because she feels she will never do better . If those three started playing like that the rest of the team would follow .

When I watch Chi,Bos,OKC,Mia I see teams that play like they have something to prove . Teams that are emotional and fired up . Teams that want respect and are willing to fight to get it and it starts with there best players .

The difference between that Chicago team this year and last is that last year if Rose didnt bring his A game it was okay because everyone would just point to everyone elses shortcomings . However this year Ive seen several interviews where has said that when his team doesnt play well its on him because hes the tone setter and so he knows he hast o bring it every game and that if he does more often than not his team will follow him .

On our team they are perfectly fine with using Bibby or jamal or twin as a excuse when we know fioor a fact that if Al,Josh,and Joe all bring there A game every game then we can beat anyone . But its much easier to just keep this status quo.

[Diesel]

I can't disagree with you on this. The Hawks need to look at the big picture rather than simply being fixated on being more competitive this year. With that said, if the Hawks want to have a chance to truly contend (by adding a major player in a year or so), they absolutely have to find a way to move both Marvin and ZaZa, especially Marvin. Jamal and Bibby are not the issue since their contracts are not long term. Marvin and ZaZa are bigger threats because their contracts run longer and neither player is close to providing the value their contracts indicate they should. Trading Jamal and Bibby for a quick fix will not help this team get into a position to be a true contender. It would only ensure more mediocrity and could further threaten the Hawks chances of making a impactful move down the line by saddling them with another long contract. I have to agree with the Hawks stance. Why trade Bibby or Jamal when their contracts will be ending shortly? Unless it's a move that makes the team a legit contender, they just should'nt do it. Marvin and ZaZa are the players they should be trying to move so that they can get more cap space for the next off season.

It's amazing to me that we have 1 guy on the last year of his contract. 1 guy with 4 years left. 1 guy with another year left and everybody says.. trade the guy on the last year. Not to mention that he is one of the most impactful players we have.

I have a theory that Hawks fans like Marvin so much simply because we drafted him. I guess I will call it Draftnightphilosis. Whoever the Hawks draft, Hawks fans just build a love for and always support (as long as they are in a Hawks uniform). This is Marvin. Marvin is just mediocre. We're paying him like he's good and people want to keep that debt on the books while trading a bargain away.

I would rather trade Marvin for a young player and cap space and keep Craw until his contract expires. IF he wants to be with us, he will resign our lowball offer.

[Buzzard]

It's amazing to me that we have 1 guy on the last year of his contract. 1 guy with 4 years left. 1 guy with another year left and everybody says.. trade the guy on the last year. Not to mention that he is one of the most impactful players we have.

I have a theory that Hawks fans like Marvin so much simply because we drafted him. I guess I will call it Draftnightphilosis. Whoever the Hawks draft, Hawks fans just build a love for and always support (as long as they are in a Hawks uniform). This is Marvin. Marvin is just mediocre. We're paying him like he's good and people want to keep that debt on the books while trading a bargain away.

I would rather trade Marvin for a young player and cap space and keep Craw until his contract expires. IF he wants to be with us, he will resign our lowball offer.

Here is the problem with Crawford. We did not extend him and he wanted a extension like every other player in the NBA not named Melo. That could not have made him happy and if he loses big money due to the new CBA, he will be even more dissatisfied with the ASG. Chances are Crawford will get at least a MLE offer from a contender and chances are pretty good his price will go up from there. We are not going to match Crawford for the same reason we did not extend him, he will put us into the luxury tax. And if he loses millions due to us not extending him, he may very well take a low ball offer from any other contender that wants him.

For some reason we think Crawford wants to play for us, I do not see it that way at all. It is a lose lose for the ASG when Crawford walks, but they see it as a win by signing Horford and staying under the luxury line. Maybe the landscape changes for us and Crawford by the start of next season, but right now moving Crawford is the only sure way we will get something in return for him. I do not think we will move Crawford for the same reason we did not extend him. But moving him, since we did not extend him, is the move I would make.

I do not have a problem moving any of the players on your list; but to think Crawford will stay as a unrestricted free agent is a rose colored glass outlook in my opinion.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

I voted Jamal, but quite honestly you should have everyone of our players listed except JJ and Horf with a all of the above option. Honestly, no one should really be excluded if it can land us a deal like NY pulled off last night.

[coachx]

It's amazing to me that we have 1 guy on the last year of his contract. 1 guy with 4 years left. 1 guy with another year left and everybody says.. trade the guy on the last year. Not to mention that he is one of the most impactful players we have.

Cap space mean nothing to the Hawks.

They will NEVER be able to sign a top 10 player, even if they had the cap space, simply b/c that player will go to a team that has proven they will pay luxury tax to surround their star player(s) with talent. (Knicks, Celtics, Lakers, Mavericks, Spurs, Magic, Cleveland, and Heat have all proven they will pay luxury tax to win..........the Hawks have not).

The best the Hawks can hope for on the open free agent market is an unproven up and comer who's team cannot afford him......like how we signed Joe Johnson. That is who the Atlanta Hawks are........or more importantly and accurately what the ASG's budget is. Only another owner with $$$$$ can take this franchise to the next level.

Edited February 22, 2011 by coachx

[sasuke]

You will get something better in return but that wont change what this team has become . Get your head out of the sand its not about those three players .

The fact is that next season we will have 3 players taking up more than 50% of our cap and none of those three is a all nba caliber player . Good players ? YES !! but not great players and until we get a great player that the league respects or one of the three takes that next step to greatness then it wont matter how you shuffle the deck the outcome will be the same.

and for what its worth

jamals ability to

create his own shot for himself

create shots for others

ability to shoot the three

ability to get to and make foul shots

owns Marvins sometimes offense erratic rebounding and ability to trip over his own feet every other play .

Im so tired of hearing this whining about defense while ignoring the fact that entire team has brain freezes at the craziest times .

Not just Jamal not just Bibby EVERYONE to keep overlooking these facts is ridiculous

While JJ is here we can't do something big. If we attempt to free some cap space, by the time we will be able to add a superstar with the cap space JJ will be out of his prime & you will be talking about dumping him to have room for another superstar. We have to do something now, on his prime & with Jamal( he isn't going to be here next season) even if it isn't something big.

Edited February 22, 2011 by sasuke

[AHF]

It's amazing to me that we have 1 guy on the last year of his contract. 1 guy with 4 years left. 1 guy with another year left and everybody says.. trade the guy on the last year. Not to mention that he is one of the most impactful players we have.

The reason for this is that people don't think we can get an impact player for Marvin and think we can get an impact player for Crawford. People want the impact player so they prefer to see a deal around Crawford.

That isn't mutually exclusive with trading Marvin, though. If you are talking about dealing Marvin for a shorter contract young player, you can still do that and trade Crawford for Harris, etc. if you want. But no one thinks we can get Harris in a deal centered around Marvin.

[Buzzard]

The reason for this is that people don't think we can get an impact player for Marvin and think we can get an impact player for Crawford. People want the impact player so they prefer to see a deal around Crawford.

That isn't mutually exclusive with trading Marvin, though. If you are talking about dealing Marvin for a shorter contract young player, you can still do that and trade Crawford for Harris, etc. if you want. But no one thinks we can get Harris in a deal centered around Marvin.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement as far as why Crawford has so many votes to be traded. Getting a all-star potential PG far outweighs our 6th mans value IMO. And even though I would like to get one for Marvin, I do not see it happening.

[ryandauwalker]

Here lies the problem:

Jamal will yield us the greatest value and his value can help us add to our roster without hurting our starting lineup.

HOWEVER, if we do trade Jamal for somebody else, we will be in the luxury tax next year unless we make other serious adjustments.

While I did vote Jamal, I think the only way we will be able to make a big difference on our team is if we trade Smoove and try to address two needs at once.

---

Marvin won't yield us anything.

Bibby won't yield us anything.

Jamal could yield us something, but ASG won't deal him.

That leaves Smoove.