LD Confronts Smoove

[GameTime]

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/05/06/atlanta-hawks-larry-drew-on-josh-smiths-jump-shots/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks

[NineOhTheRino]

Read these 2 quotes

I want him flying all over the place. I don’t want him sitting out there just shooting jump shots and trying to make plays off the dribble.

Someone asked L.D. during the Orlando series if he ran plays for Smoove in the post. He smiled and said: “Yeah, but somehow he always ends up floating back out there.” So when Josh gets the ball on the perimeter late in the clock, is that because the “flow of the offense” dictated it or is it because he’s not where he’s supposed to be?

So why exactly is he getting the ball on perimeter? Doesn't make sense to feed him on the perimeter if LD is on record saying he shouldn't be making plays off the dribble. Sounds like less of a Josh problem and more of an offense problem.

Edited May 6, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[01d0rd3r]

Josh obviously will not listen to drew. Drew should tell the rest of the guys to freeze josh out on offense unless he is in the paint. I dont care if jj is being doubled and josh is the only open man, either pass the ball in a tight space to someone else or try to take a shot and draw contact. This way we still have his help defense and we dont have him taking stupid shots. One of Two things will happen, Josh will start getting to the paint cause he wants the ball, or josh starts walking up the floor and in that case drew doesnt have the defense excuse to keep him in the game and he can bench him.

[Bawse]

I read this. Smoove will be Smoove. When he starts getting chuck happy, LD just needs to pull him. Either that or the rest of the guys need to stop feeding him on the perimeter. There's a reason why he's always open out there.

[Diesel]

Josh obviously will not listen to drew. Drew should tell the rest of the guys to freeze josh out on offense unless he is in the paint. I dont care if jj is being doubled and josh is the only open man, either pass the ball in a tight space to someone else or try to take a shot and draw contact. This way we still have his help defense and we dont have him taking stupid shots. One of Two things will happen, Josh will start getting to the paint cause he wants the ball, or josh starts walking up the floor and in that case drew doesnt have the defense excuse to keep him in the game and he can bench him.

No. You punish bad behavior. You don't ignore it. Josh should be benched. LD says we set up plays and he drifts back out there. Well, everytime that happens, on the very next whistle, Josh Powell should be hitting the floor. The message to Josh should be that either you play our way or you won't play. Even if it means losing the series. Otherwise, LD will both lose the series and the respect of the other guys. I won't ask the other guys to freeze him out either. It sets a bad precedent. Bench him. Bench him and let him sit in 10 minute intervals until he learns. The Bench is a great teacher.

[niremetal]

Read these 2 quotes

So why exactly is he getting the ball on perimeter? Doesn't make sense to feed him on the perimeter if LD is on record saying he shouldn't be making plays off the dribble. Sounds like less of a Josh problem and more of an offense problem.

I'm getting so damned sick of this excuse. Like I said in another thread:

For all the people who use this defense for Smoove shooting 3s - why the HELL is he standing still on the perimeter instead of cutting to the basket as the clock winds down? It's not as if some supernatural force is possessing the painted area, forcing Smoove to fade to the perimeter on every damned possession.

Josh is getting the ball on the perimeter because he is deciding to go to the perimeter. LD said point blank that he calls plays where Josh is in the post but "somehow" he ends up out on the perimeter. That means it's NOT an offense problem. The play call was for him to go to the post. When Josh ends up on the perimeter anyway, that means it was JOSH who chose to go there. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can figure that one out.

Why do teammates pass him the ball there? Because passing Josh the ball on the perimeter is the lesser of five evils. Josh taking an open 20 footer is better than Joe taking a double-contested fadeaway from 24 feet or Al throwing up a contested off-balance shot from 18 feet. And it's better than trying to force a pass to a teammate whose defender has cut off the passing lane. The teammates are responsible for passing Josh the ball. But they are NOT responsible for the fact that Josh is 20 feet from the basket instead of cutting to the basket when he gets the ball.

I thought Thibs' praise of Marvin for being good at cutting to the basket from the weakside was a backhand slap at Josh, who most certainly does NOT do that. Thibodeau has been leaving Josh wide open out on the perimeter when he doesn't have the ball, giving Josh an easy path to cut to the basket and catch the ball in the paint if he so desired. That's because he knows Josh will rarely if ever cut to the basket. He'll just plant his *ss on the perimeter and wait for a bailout pass there so he can launch another of his beloved long jumpers, instead of cutting to the basket and making himself an actual threat off the ball.

Stop trying to pass the blame off on everyone but Josh for Josh's decision to stand still on the perimeter on every damned possession. It's beyond getting old at this point.

Edited May 6, 2011 by niremetal

[OrlandoHawk]

I'm getting so damned sick of this excuse. Like I said in another thread:

For all the people who use this defense for Smoove shooting 3s - why the HELL is he standing still on the perimeter instead of cutting to the basket as the clock winds down? It's not as if some supernatural force is possessing the painted area, forcing Smoove to fade to the perimeter on every damned possession.

Josh is getting the ball on the perimeter because he is deciding to go to the perimeter. LD said point blank that he calls plays where Josh is in the post but "somehow" he ends up out on the perimeter. That means it's NOT an offense problem. The play call was for him to go to the post. When Josh ends up on the perimeter anyway, that means it was JOSH who chose to go there. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can figure that one out.

Why do teammates pass him the ball there? Because passing Josh the ball on the perimeter is the least of evils. Josh taking an open 20 footer is better than Joe taking a double-contested fadeaway from 24 feet or Al throwing up a contested off-balance shot from 18 feet. And it's better than trying to force a pass to a teammate whose defender has cut off the passing lane. The teammates are responsible for passing Josh the ball. But they are NOT responsible for the fact that Josh is 20 feet from the basket instead of cutting to the basket when he gets the ball.

I thought Thibs' praise of Marvin for being good at cutting to the basket from the weakside was a backhand slap at Josh, who most certainly does NOT do that. Thibodeau has been leaving Josh wide open out on the perimeter when he didn't have the ball, giving him an easy path to cut to the basket if he so desired. That's because he knows Josh will rarely if ever cut to the basket. He'll just plant his *ss on the perimeter and wait for a bailout pass so he can launch another of his beloved long jumpers.

Stop trying to pass the blame off on everyone but Josh for Josh's decision to stand still on the perimeter on every damned possession. It's beyond getting old at this point.

If my phone would allow me to +1 you I would!

[macdaddy]

I'm getting so damned sick of this excuse. Like I said in another thread:

For all the people who use this defense for Smoove shooting 3s - why the HELL is he standing still on the perimeter instead of cutting to the basket as the clock winds down? It's not as if some supernatural force is possessing the painted area, forcing Smoove to fade to the perimeter on every damned possession.

Josh is getting the ball on the perimeter because he is deciding to go to the perimeter. LD said point blank that he calls plays where Josh is in the post but "somehow" he ends up out on the perimeter. That means it's NOT an offense problem. The play call was for him to go to the post. When Josh ends up on the perimeter anyway, that means it was JOSH who chose to go there. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can figure that one out.

Why do teammates pass him the ball there? Because passing Josh the ball on the perimeter is the lesser of five evils. Josh taking an open 20 footer is better than Joe taking a double-contested fadeaway from 24 feet or Al throwing up a contested off-balance shot from 18 feet. And it's better than trying to force a pass to a teammate whose defender has cut off the passing lane. The teammates are responsible for passing Josh the ball. But they are NOT responsible for the fact that Josh is 20 feet from the basket instead of cutting to the basket when he gets the ball.

I thought Thibs' praise of Marvin for being good at cutting to the basket from the weakside was a backhand slap at Josh, who most certainly does NOT do that. Thibodeau has been leaving Josh wide open out on the perimeter when he didn't have the ball, giving him an easy path to cut to the basket if he so desired. That's because he knows Josh will rarely if ever cut to the basket. He'll just plant his *ss on the perimeter and wait for a bailout pass there so he can launch another of his beloved long jumpers, instead of cutting to the basket and making himself an actual threat off the ball.

Stop trying to pass the blame off on everyone but Josh for Josh's decision to stand still on the perimeter on every damned possession. It's beyond getting old at this point.

You can blame Josh for not being a good player but ultimately that's why there is a coach. What coach in any sport ever gets away with 'well i told them what to do they just didn't do it'

[DocWilkins]

You can blame Josh for not being a good player but ultimately that's why there is a coach. What coach in any sport ever gets away with 'well i told them what to do they just didn't do it'

[Supporter]

You can blame Josh for not being a good player but ultimately that's why there is a coach. What coach in any sport ever gets away with 'well i told them what to do they just didn't do it'

Are we seriously still blaming Drew for what Josh is doing out there. Josh is not a kid anymore he is a grown *ss man, no more excuses for him!!!!

[DocWilkins]

This all boils down to coaching...If a player is not doing as the coach wishes, he needs to sit down and think about it. The problem LD has is Josh can be so dynamic that it almost outweighs his bad decisions on offense. You just never know what Josh is going to give you night in and night out....

There have been games this season where I thought he was our best player and others where I wanted to reach out and give him the hook myself.

Josh is to the point where he has to make some changes...He and Al need to get it together quickly. We need more than JJ and Jamal because if they aren't going we are sunk right now.

[niremetal]

You can blame Josh for not being a good player but ultimately that's why there is a coach. What coach in any sport ever gets away with 'well i told them what to do they just didn't do it'

Yeah, you're right. The NBA is a coach's league. You never see players go off and doing their own thing despite what their coach tells them. I mean, it's not like Kobe ever clashed with Phil Jackson about executing the triangle, or Iverson with Larry Brown, or the Pistons with Flip Saunders, or young Tony Parker with Greg Popovich or...

Seriously, it's old. And the idea that you never see players defy their coach's playcalling in the NBA is just laughable. If the coach tells Josh to do one thing and Josh does another, it's the coach's fault? Give me a break.

Edited May 6, 2011 by niremetal

[Diesel]

You can blame Josh for not being a good player but ultimately that's why there is a coach. What coach in any sport ever gets away with 'well i told them what to do they just didn't do it'

When you're the lowest paid coach in the NBA on a 1 yr contract... it's hard to tell a "franchise Player" that he has to do this.

My hope is that our 1 win has won LD some coin with the owners. I hope that LD now has the stones to use that coin to get Josh right before it's too late. Bench him when he f's up[!!!

[NineOhTheRino]

I swear I get headaches when typing about this particular topic. Let's forget about why Josh is on the perimeter for a second. Answer 3 questions.

1. Is he wide open?
   
2. Did he hit open shots during the regular season?
   
3. Is he good off the dribble?
   

So what do you expect him to do once he gets the ball? Guys we're not mad that Josh is taking these shots; we're just pissed that the shots are not falling. If the shots fall MC is not stirring things up and the reoccurring "Trade Josh Smith" post is no where to be found.

...and can we please stop the talk of Josh launching 3s. His long-2s are 10 times worse and he shot better than Joe and Marvin from 3 in the regular season. This "launching 3s" thing is just a hot button phrase to get everyone in a Josh Smith bashing mode.

Edited May 6, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[Supporter]

I swear I get headaches when typing about this particular topic. Let's forget about why Josh is on the perimeter for a second. Answer 3 questions.

1. Is he wide open?
   
2. Did he hit open shots during the regular season?
   
3. Is he good off the dribble?
   

So what do you expect him to do once he gets the ball? Guys we're not mad that Josh is taking these shots; we're just pissed that the shots are not falling. If the shots fall MC is not stirring things up and the reoccurring "Trade Josh Smith" post is no where to be found.

1. Yes, because the defense doesn't respect him

2. Not during the playoffs, and according to the players the playoffs is a new season

3. No, which is why he should be cutting and looking to receive passes in motion to the rim

I'm not mad about Josh shooting a wide open shot, I'm just mad that he is not CUTTING TO THE RIM, instead he is just laxing around on the perimeter.

And my beef with shot doesn't even start with his shot selection, which is terrible it focuses on his effort out there. Half of the time on defense he never boxes out, half of the time he argues for a foul on offense and stays on one side of the court. and most of the time he is trying to do too much out there and prove to everyone that his hard work has paid off. What was the point of scheduling sessions with HAKEEM FREAKIN OLAJUWON if you don't use it!!!!

[MoBetta]

Josh is a COACH KILLER

[NineOhTheRino]

Josh is a COACH KILLER

I sure hope so

[macdaddy]

Yeah, you're right. The NBA is a coach's league. You never see players go off and doing their own thing despite what their coach tells them. I mean, it's not like Kobe ever clashed with Phil Jackson about executing the triangle, or Iverson with Larry Brown, or the Pistons with Flip Saunders, or young Tony Parker with Greg Popovich or...

Seriously, it's old. And the idea that you never see players defy their coach's playcalling in the NBA is just laughable. If the coach tells Josh to do one thing and Josh does another, it's the coach's fault? Give me a break.

Are you kidding me? You think Phil Jackson, Brown, Sloan or any of these guys had a player who repeatedly, on an every game basis, ignored what the coach told them to do and faced no repurcussions? Sure players defy coaches all the time but not for weeks, seasons, years. This is the number one reason coaches get fired. "The team had turned him", "the players no longer responded" blah blah blah.

[niremetal]

Are you kidding me? You think Phil Jackson, Brown, Sloan or any of these guys had a player who repeatedly, on an every game basis, ignored what the coach told them to do and faced no repurcussions? Sure players defy coaches all the time but not for weeks, seasons, years.

Kobe defied Phil for weeks, seasons, years without repercussions. In fact, in the end, Phil was ultimately the one who had to leave town in 2004 and Kobe was the one the team kept and built around. Iverson defied Larry Brown for weeks, seasons, years. Magic Johnson with Paul Westhead. The whole damned Pistons team defied Flip for weeks, seasons, years without repercussions. Every NBA coach who ever had to deal with Pistol Pete. Deron Williams and Sloan, even though Sloan has for years been cited as the last truly "old school" coach left in the game, a guy with minimal patience for dissent from his schemes. Etc. Etc. Etc.

The NBA is a player's league, not a coach's league. That's bound to happen in a league where average players get paid more than even the best coaches. If you think that LD is somehow unusual in having to deal with a player like Josh who for whatever reason is unwilling to execute his schemes and plays, then I don't know what to tell you except you need to read up more on the league (or talk to people who've played in it). I'd suggest starting with "The Last Season."

Edited May 6, 2011 by niremetal

[912hawk]

Here's the whole quote from LD..... “I thought he was trying to do too much. He admitted it, that that was the case. He didn’t feel good about how he was playing. I was going to take him out early in the third quarter. Something told me to leave him in there, kind of let him see if he could play through it, and he did exactly that. I thought for about a five-minute stretch, he got us back in the ballgame on his energy and his effort and just hustling. I think he came up with four blocked shots in that stretch, got out on a break and got a dunk, got a three-point play in that stretch. . . . He is a very unique player. He can impact the game on both ends of the floor. I know since I’ve been here, we haven’t had a player like him that can do that. He has to be flying around and blocking shots and running the floor and making passes. That’s when he’s at his best for us. We can’t have him just sitting out there and launching 3s, because that plays into the opposition’s hands. He realized that.” I give him some credit he did admit he's tryin to hard maybe that stretch where LD left him in the game as headbandless josh made him realise that's how he has to play from now on....I haven't been on this board long but Ive been a fan since I was 5 so something tells me at the end of this we should all just blame Marvin lol j/k couldnt help it.