So THAT's what a superstar looks like!

[ATL_BALLER]

Someone with off-the-charts ability, who steps up on the biggest of stages, elevates everyone around him and brings the fire every night.

See Diesel, it's actually quite clear what a true #1 looks--and sounds--like:

'Dirk Nowitzki stood on the court wearing a baseball hat celebrating the Dallas Mavericks' return to the NBA Finals. As his team received a silver trophy for winning the Western Conference, he looked as if he'd just been named the player of the week in November.

Nowitzki's indifferent attitude during the pandemonium around him shows just how locked in he is right now.

"We've got one of those trophies already," Nowitzki said. "This is nice for a day, but we set our goals in October to win it all. We haven't done it yet."

So, how do we get us one of those?

Edited May 26, 2011 by ATL_BALLER

[Joker]

Joe Johnson actually has more ability than Dirk all around but Dirk is a SUPERIOR SCORER. Dirk is not just a #1 option but is one of the best scorers in NBA history. The Mavs are so much better of a team than Atlanta and has been for almost 15 years now.

[ATL_BALLER]

Joe Johnson actually has more ability than Dirk all around but Dirk is a SUPERIOR SCORER. Dirk is not just a #1 option but is one of the best scorers in NBA history. The Mavs are so much better of a team than Atlanta and has been for almost 15 years now.

True that overall they're much better, but that's partly a product of Dirk's presence. In addition to his scoring prowess, dude is a superior leader and competitor than our top dog.

[hawkman]

True that overall they're much better, but that's partly a product of Dirk's presence. In addition to his scoring prowess, dude is a superior leader and competitor than our top dog.

But Dirk had to learn to be that leader. He was a big part of the Mavs being a 'soft' team in the past, and he's a big part of them getting mentally tougher. I wonder if JJ has it within him to be THE leader on this team. I see flashes from time tot time, but wonder if he can sustain it for the whole season or for an entire Playoff series. After he played well in Game 1 versus Chicago, he just seemed different in the postgame presser. He looked like the guy this team needs as the face of the franchise. Of course, things went downhill after that, but the point is we've all seen flashes from Joe. If Dirk can grow into a leadersip role maybe Joe can do the same?

[Guest]

People are funny, 5 years ago, 3 years ago...hell even last year, NO ONE was talking about Dirk like this (getting swept in 1st round 2yrs in a row by Golden State). He is 33 years old (13th NBA season) and it has taken him this long to round out his game. He has always been a good shooter, but he has finally developed a post game and is actually playing defense. JJ is 30 years old (10th NBA season), he still has time to round out his game even more. Look at the veterans on Dallas' roster, the Hawks are still a relative yound team in terms of NBA experience.

[Diesel]

Someone with off-the-charts ability, who steps up on the biggest of stages, elevates everyone around him and brings the fire every night.

See Diesel, it's actually quite clear what a true #1 looks--and sounds--like:

'Dirk Nowitzki stood on the court wearing a baseball hat celebrating the Dallas Mavericks' return to the NBA Finals. As his team received a silver trophy for winning the Western Conference, he looked as if he'd just been named the player of the week in November.

Nowitzki's indifferent attitude during the pandemonium around him shows just how locked in he is right now.

"We've got one of those trophies already," Nowitzki said. "This is nice for a day, but we set our goals in October to win it all. We haven't done it yet."

So, how do we get us one of those?

You got one. Just like Dirk had to right for the right combination of players to be around him before he could stand on that podium... Joe does too. Notice, Dirk had to suffer with the softness of Ericka Dampiere. Dirk had to suffer with the inconsistency and purple haze of Josh Howard. Dirk had to suffer with the injuries of Kidd, Marion and Butler. But his owner never gave up on him. Even when they said Dirk was soft and Dirk didn't play defense and Dirk was not a good leader...

"I have been hearing over and over since the NBA Finals when the Miami Heat beat the Dallas Mavericks how Dirk isn't a leader, and this is why the Mavs can't win a championship."

You see Baller... Even Dirk had to endure what Joe is going through.

Like Joe, Dirk has even had to endure people saying lesser teammates who talk more are better than him?

Dirk Nowitzki is a top 10 player in the NBA without question. However, he is not the most valuable player on his team. That honor would be reserved for Josh Howard who:

a) Is the most significant determining factor in Maverick victories. They were 23-1 when he scored 20+ points.

b) Has given the Mavericks a defensive edge and identity.

Night in and nightout he guards the best swingmen in the league, and he does a pretty good job too. Although he has problems with quick guards (Dwyane Wade, Baron Davis), he is excellent at anticipating the offensive players tendencies in the triple threat position.

[TomSelleck]

Forget Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not even sure Joe Johnson is any better than Jason Terry.

[99PROBL3MS]

No one underrates the talents of Joe Johnson like his own fans. Are people seriously talking about Marcus Thornton and the like? I mean....seriously? Dirk is as good comparison because DAL fans did thee same thing to him for ages. Tyson Chandler and Haywood are making a world if difference on that team. Not to mention the right coach.

[TomSelleck]

No one underrates the talents of Joe Johnson like his own fans. Are people seriously talking about Marcus Thornton and the like? I mean....seriously? Dirk is as good comparison because DAL fans did thee same thing to him for ages. Tyson Chandler and Haywood are making a world if difference on that team. Not to mention the right coach.

Come on Dirk is the #28 scorer in NBA history to Joe's #164 while only being 3 years older. Over 9,000 points separate them. That's like comparing John Elway before his Super Bowl titles to Trent Green.

[Eddielives]

Dirk has always been able to create shots for himself. Sure, he needs help as far as being on a championship team. So did Jordan. But Joe is no Dirk. Joe cannot create high percentage shots against pressure from the better teams with better defensive players. Dirk can and always has been able to. No comparison.

[Diesel]

Forget Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not even sure Joe Johnson is any better than Jason Terry.

Even when JT was here and he was the #1 option, he never saw a double team.

[Diesel]

Come on Dirk is the #28 scorer in NBA history to Joe's #164 while only being 3 years older. Over 9,000 points separate them. That's like comparing John Elway before his Super Bowl titles to Trent Green.

Well, I don't think anybody said anything about Joe being a better scorer than Dirk. Hell, Dirk has been MVP candidate and to the Finals. He's a great player.

But even a great player like Dirk has been scrutinized as being a guy who could not win because he was a bad 1st option. Joe has endured the same.

Dirk has always been able to create shots for himself. Sure, he needs help as far as being on a championship team. So did Jordan. But Joe is no Dirk. Joe cannot create high percentage shots against pressure from the better teams with better defensive players. Dirk can and always has been able to. No comparison.

Dirk has always had better scoring options around him?

Dirk has always been the 1st option.

When Joe did play with Nash, Marion and Stoudamire, he was not the first option but he shot 47.8% from three for the season.

Do you know how great Dirk would be had he been able to do that?

Dirk has a Hall of Fame PG (always) and a real Center.

Joe has a PG who is an OG in disguse And a PF playing C.

Dirk has had 3 great coaches.

In Atlanta, Joe has had 2 coaches who had never coached before.

Dirk plays off the ball.

In Atlanta, Joe has had to play with the ball in his hands.

Why not consider the details?

[Marvin24Williams]

Dirk is miles better then Joe, thats all ya needa know.

[DJlaysitup]

Well, I don't think anybody said anything about Joe being a better scorer than Dirk. Hell, Dirk has been MVP candidate and to the Finals. He's a great player.

But even a great player like Dirk has been scrutinized as being a guy who could not win because he was a bad 1st option. Joe has endured the same....

Well to be fair D...Dirk has been a borderline 1st option and Joe is...well.....

[Atlantaholic]

Dirk is a top 10-15 player all time. Joe isn't a top 10-15 player in the league today. There is no comparison. Non whatsoever. Dirk's very worst years are better than Joe's best. Joe should be compared to Jason Terry, not Dirk Nowitski. You flip flop those players and the Hawks are playing for a championship right now, while Dallas would have probably missed the playoffs.

Blaming Joe's woes on the supporting cast is freaking ridiculous. Did Dirk's numbers suffer when he played with Erick Dampier and a 22 year old Devin Harris at PG? Did Lebron's numbers suffer when he played with a bunch of role players? Did Kobe put up worse numbers in the post Shaq teams that couldn't win 50 games. Of course not, all those guys put up BETTER individual numbers with worse supporting casts. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE #1 GUYS!. Joe is simply not that. Joe has had some great seasons here and there but overall he has shown he can't carry a team. How many games where we winning before Josh and Al started consistently posting PER's in the 20s? yeah, not many. Add in the fact that Joe has been, to put it mildly, less than stellar in the playoffs, (the time when every other great number 1 option's number's should be the strongest).

Quick which of these is out of place?

24.9 (Dirk's career Playoff PER)

24.3 (Wade's career Playoff PER)

22.3(Kobe's career Playoff PER)

14.1(JJ's career playoff PER

27( Lebron's career Playoff PER)

19.7 (Derrick Roses' career Playoff PER)

19.6(Carmelo Anthony's career Playoff PER)

23 (Amare Stoudamire's career Playoff PER)

21.7 (Kevin Garnett's career Playoff PER)

Only player out of the list to see a drop in PER greater than 2 from his regular season performance to postseason performance is Joe Johson.

Joe's a good player.... But not a #1 option... at least not a very good one. Compare this guy to the Jason Terry's and Steve Smith's of the world, not the Lebron's and Nowitski's.

[DJlaysitup]

Joe Johnson actually has more ability than Dirk all around but Dirk is a SUPERIOR SCORER....

I totally dis-agree with that. JJ is a very nice 6-7 1/2 shooting guard who plays his position well but struggles against tough defenses. He lacks quickness and elevation. He is a helluva shooter and is right there with Dirk when he can get his shot off.

Dirk is a 7 footer who can get his shot off against virtually anybody. When he is on he is simply unstoppable. He put up 48 and 42 for his team in the W.C. finals...something out of the ordinary.

It is no contest IMO. :nono:

[Atlantaholic]

Well to be fair D...Dirk has been a borderline 1st option and Joe is...well.....

Borderline first option???

Dirk got criticized for being soft when in reality he is one of the all time most clutch players and one of the all time best playoff performers in the history of the NBA. If Dallas had had a halfway decent post option EVER in their run with Nowitski you would have seen a dyansty. What Dallas was missing wasn't a number 1 option, it was a GREAT number 2 option that just about every single NBA championship team has. Jason Terry was that guy when they made it to the finals in 06, and has been that guy again this season. If Dallas could have gotten a Gasol, or a Ginobli (Not to mention a Shaq or a Wade) they would have been piling up the rings.

[JJFAN4LF]

Forget Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not even sure Joe Johnson is any better than Jason Terry.

Man, if Jason Terry is better than Joe Johnson....what are we complaining about? The Hawks didn't underachieve, they overachieved..

People complain about this team. This player sucks. This player sucks. This player sucks. If all our players suck, we wouldn't have made the playoffs...we wouldn't have gotten past the first round...and we wouldn't have been close to advancing to the ECF.

[TomSelleck]

Man, if Jason Terry is better than Joe Johnson....what are we complaining about? The Hawks didn't underachieve, they overachieved..

People complain about this team. This player sucks. This player sucks. This player sucks. If all our players suck, we wouldn't have made the playoffs...we wouldn't have gotten past the first round...and we wouldn't have been close to advancing to the ECF.

It is arguable that the Hawks have been overachieving. They have a lot of good players but what people complain about the most is not having a true #1 alpha dog type player. But they do have more #2 and #3 level players than a lot of the teams still playing.

[Diesel]

I totally dis-agree with that. JJ is a very nice 6-7 1/2 shooting guard who plays his position well but struggles against tough defenses. He lacks quickness and elevation. He is a helluva shooter and is right there with Dirk when he can get his shot off.

Dirk is a 7 footer who can get his shot off against virtually anybody. When he is on he is simply unstoppable. He put up 48 and 42 for his team in the W.C. finals...something out of the ordinary.

It is no contest IMO. :nono:

You missed the whole point. Joe is a much better defender than Dirk. That was the point (Joe has more all around skill, Dirk is a better scorer)... You keep mentioning scoring as if if you showed 20 more ways that Dirk is a better scorer that it will change his all around game??

:alcoholic: