Flipping the Script on the Joe Haters.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I love the thread.

Hell . . Dominique in his prime couldn't win a title in ATL, but some other superstar greater than JJ would?

Diesel . . the real issue is the makeup and talent on this team. Would Lebron come in and make Horford and Smith better? Would his ISOs kill the team when his jumper is off?

And the 64 million dollar question would be . . .

who becomes the 2nd option?

If JJ is an ideal 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team, what are Horford and Smith?

If most championship teams win by having a legit superstar . . . a #2 guy that is an all-star that can play like a #1 at times . . . and a #3 guy who is solid enough to play at an all-star level at times . . how does that change the Hawks fortunes.

I think if you replaced JJ with a Lebron or Kobe, the blowout losses would disappear, and we'd be a better road team.

But the lack of a legit #2 scorer would kill us vs the elite teams.

[Supporter]

I love the thread.

Hell . . Dominique in his prime couldn't win a title in ATL, but some other superstar greater than JJ would?

Diesel . . the real issue is the makeup and talent on this team. Would Lebron come in and make Horford and Smith better? Would his ISOs kill the team when his jumper is off?

And the 64 million dollar question would be . . .

who becomes the 2nd option?

If JJ is an ideal 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team, what are Horford and Smith?

If most championship teams win by having a legit superstar . . . a #2 guy that is an all-star that can play like a #1 at times . . . and a #3 guy who is solid enough to play at an all-star level at times . . how does that change the Hawks fortunes.

I think if you replaced JJ with a Lebron or Kobe, the blowout losses would disappear, and we'd be a better road team.

But the lack of a legit #2 scorer would kill us vs the elite teams.

I present to you the Dallas Mavericks. Other than Dirk Nowitzki, everyone else is either a role player or a scrub.

[thecampster]

Name 1 guy playing in the league right now who you can replace Joe Johnson with and the Hawks win a championship??

That means you must keep our soft front court, our BBIQ, and our novice coaching.

Joe isn't a one for one trade player. You can bring back 1 player as good as Joe and 2 role players for what Joe makes.

[99PROBL3MS]

Come on now Supp.....Jason Kidd, Marion, Terry, Chandler, etc. are all scrubs? How many if our bench players would log a minute for Dallas. Joe isn't the player Dirk us but Dallas has far more surrounding tashkent than ATL.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You think Dallas doesn't have talent? Dirk is the clear #1. JT is the clear #2. And Jason Kidd ( a hall of fame PG that still plays at a high level on most nights ) runs the show.

Chandler is a better center ( not necessarily a better player, but a better center ) than Horford. Marion isn't an all-star level forward anymore, but he still is a good energy player and defender. And Stevenson is considered by many to be a very good perimeter defender.

Better individual talent does not = better team.

Just because most of our fans rate Horford and Smith to be good to great talents, doesn't mean that they're very good talents vs elite level teams.

JJ falls short of being a superstar on the level of other superstars, while Horford and Smith fall short of being on the level of very good PFs and Cs.

[Supporter]

Come on now Supp.....Jason Kidd, Marion, Terry, Chandler, etc. are all scrubs? How many if our bench players would log a minute for Dallas. Joe isn't the player Dirk us but Dallas has far more surrounding tashkent than ATL.

I said either role players or scrubs...I don't consider Jason,Terry,Marion, or Chandler scrubs.

[Diesel]

I'm not a Joe hater, but give me Howard or Dirk and I think we could win a championship.

with Howard

Teague

Cpt. Kirk

Josh

Al

Howard

with Dirk

Al

Dirk

Josh

Kirk

Teague

Since you did give a serious answer, i will give a serious response.

I don't think Howard could do it. He's not a natural scorer. Moreover, the lane would be clogged and you're asking Josh to be your shooter? Finally, we don't know enough about Teague. We've seen him in one series against one guy. You think he's now championship level?

Dirk is interesting but now there's a huge logjam of softness. At least with Howard, you could almost matchup with Chicago.

Bron

Wade

Kobe

CP3

Deron

Howard

Melo

Rose

Dirk

Durant

Most of them make less than JJ

Sorry but Bron couldn't win with Cleveland.

Wade is interesting but no.

Kobe couldn't win with a better frontcourt and a better coach.

CP3 is good for floor management but he's doubled by game 2 and there's nobody to pass to who will get you scores.

Deron = Next..

Melo = Are you kidding me??

Rose = Next.

Dirk

Durant? Please.

The bottom line is that when you see the problem the problem is in the lack of skillset in the front court. .

[Diesel]

I don't hate JJ but Lebron is my answer. Lebron already went to the finals with less talent than Al Horford, Jamal Crawford, Josh Smith, Kirk, Teague, et al.

Lebron is not a finisher. He has always needed somebody else to close out tough teams for him.

To get to the finals, it wasn't Lebron that closed out the pistons. It was Daniel Gibson. You notice that Lebron never sniffed the finals until he got to play with Wade?

[Diesel]

The proper question is what team in the nba wins a championship with Joe as the best player on the team. The answer is no team. Joe would make a great sidekick to, say, a Derrick Rose though.

Even if Joe makes a great Sidekick.

Pippen was a great Sidekick. Pippen was able to do well without Jordan completely because of the makeup of the team. The make up of our team is our problem. I listen to people Judge Joe as if the Hawks are perfect?? Really?? Joe is supposed to win with this cast? In fact, who can win with this cast? Nobody. We think non-closing Lebron can, but I'm telling you, we don't have the consistent shooters to help Lebron get passed the 2nd round.

How many Josh Smith boneheaded threes will it take before Lebron says "I'm taking my talents to _________.

Lebron left a team that was built around him and his skillsets.

Guys who set picks.

Guys who rebound well.

Shooters around the perimeter.

Guys who play good defense.

What will he do when he get to Atlanta??

With Guys who don't set picks.

Guys who like to sit around and watch.

Guys who play ISO ball by habit.

What do you think Bron would do??

After Bron has called his 27th team meeting, I think he'd be ready to go.

[Supporter]

Since we are "forced" to keep Joe, we have to build the team around him like Dies and North say. We have to first get rid of Josh because he doesn't fit our concept. We should trade Josh for a second option, that way Horf will be kept happy and we have a legitimate second option in the starting lineup. Also getting Dalembert in the off season would be ideal.

[Guest]

Lebron is not a finisher. He has always needed somebody else to close out tough teams for him.

To get to the finals, it wasn't Lebron that closed out the pistons. It was Daniel Gibson. You notice that Lebron never sniffed the finals until he got to play with Wade?

FYI Diesel - Lebron got to the finals in 2007 where they got swept by the Spurs.

[Diesel]

FYI Diesel - Lebron got to the finals in 2007 where they got swept by the Spurs.

Jay, did you read... I said " TO GET TO THE FINALS...."

[AHF]

Jay, did you read... I said " TO GET TO THE FINALS...."

You also said Lebron didn't sniff the finals until he played with Wade which is just wrong.

[Diesel]

You also said Lebron didn't sniff the finals until he played with Wade which is just wrong.

That's true. I misspoke.

However, him getting to the finals was not because he answered the Bell when he played the Pistons.

His teammates stepped up to get him there.

When he found that his teammates were unable to do it again, he went and got new teammates.

Here's what MJ had to say:

“There’s no way, with hindsight, I would’ve ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, ‘Hey, look, let’s get together and play on one team.’”

Charles Barkley seems to be in complete agreement with Michael Jordan as well.

“Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this,” Charles Barkley told the Arizona Republic this week. “If you’re the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don’t leave anywhere. They come to you. That’s ridiculous. I like LeBron. He’s a great player. But I don’t think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people.”

[sasuke]

Since you did give a serious answer, i will give a serious response.

I don't think Howard could do it. He's not a natural scorer. Moreover, the lane would be clogged and you're asking Josh to be your shooter? Finally, we don't know enough about Teague. We've seen him in one series against one guy. You think he's now championship level?

Dirk is interesting but now there's a huge logjam of softness. At least with Howard, you could almost matchup with Chicago.

Sorry but Bron couldn't win with Cleveland.

our current team JJ-less > Bron-less Cavs, even my dog knows this.

Wade is interesting but no.

Why not? LMFAO!!!

Kobe couldn't win with a better frontcourt and a better coach.

True, still Kobe > than JJ & if you think not you better drop the pot.

CP3 is good for floor management but he's doubled by game 2 and there's nobody to pass to who will get you scores.

CP3 will turn Al & Smoove in 20+ ppg players. CP# > than JJ & JJ-less Hawks > CP3-less Hornets, period

Deron = Next..

Same as CP3

Melo = Are you kidding me??

Melo > than JJ, not rocket science.

Rose = Next.

Let me know when JJ becomes an MVP candidate, & he's almost 9 years younger.

Dirk

Durant? Please.

please what? Durant > than JJ & is almost 10 years younger.

The bottom line is that when you see the problem the problem is in the lack of skillset in the front court. .

The bottom line is that you're looking like a joke with all the nonsense arguments you're making. Seriously, the more you try to defend JJ, the more credibility you're loosing. I think it's time to give it a rest

PS:

[Guest]

Jay, did you read... I said " TO GET TO THE FINALS...."

I'm no LeBron fan but please don't make it sound like the Pistons had their defensive game plan to stop Gibson. Gibson was able to have so many open shots because of the defense against LBJ and he found a wide open Gibson sooo many times. The same argument you make for JJ being doubled and having bad games and his teammates having to step up but didn't applies here.

[sasuke]

That's true. I misspoke.

However, him getting to the finals was not because he answered the Bell when he played the Pistons.

His teammates stepped up to get him there.

When he found that his teammates were unable to do it again, he went and got new teammates.

Here's what MJ had to say:

“There’s no way, with hindsight, I would’ve ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, ‘Hey, look, let’s get together and play on one team.’”

Charles Barkley seems to be in complete agreement with Michael Jordan as well.

“Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this,” Charles Barkley told the Arizona Republic this week. “If you’re the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don’t leave anywhere. They come to you. That’s ridiculous. I like LeBron. He’s a great player. But I don’t think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people.”

I saw the whole series & I have to agree with this article: I don't know what NBA Diesel is watching, but is not the same we do.

[MaceCase]

I saw the whole series & I have to agree with this article: I don't know what NBA Diesel is watching, but is not the same we do.

This never happened.

I loved the game winning layup on 4 Pistons, too.

[sasuke]

This never happened.

I loved the game winning layup on 4 Pistons, too.

JJ can do that..................

[DrReality]

ANC sure thru him under the bus blaming him for the thrashers demise