Marvin should get some credit

[MaceCase]

More insults and a complete lack of knowing what the word FACTUAL means. Opinion <> fact. Or even FACTUAL. lol.

Let's look at some of the guys currently working as 3rd options on my list:

Gortat 1st option

Calderon Sure a third option but then he's making over 2 million more than Marv.

Nelson Isn't the definitive third option

Affalo Is only the close to 3rd option by default because of injuries and trade, never intended to be such.

Scola Leads Houston in points and FGAs, thats some 3rd option. Makes more

Conley is 4th behind Gay and Gasol, oh and ZBO, he's back btw. Will make more

Drew Gooden I guess with Jackson, Maggette, Salmons and Bogut getting traded we can say he was always meant for this.

Humphries Got it.

Ariza Nope, even Marco Benineli is ahead of him on the pecking order.

Felton What happened to Matthews? can't have two 3rd options can we? Still wrong though, not even a top 5 option.

Marcus Thornton Bingo

Milsap 2nd option behind Jefferson actually, sowwy.

Guys that were signed to be or traded to be a 3rd option:

Ty Thomas Not unless him having the ball more than either of Diaw, Jackson, or Wallace made sense to you.

Varejao the guy coming off the bench was signed to be a 3rd option with Bron, Mo, Shaq and 'Twan all in tow.....interesting.

Charlie V (behind Gordon and Rip, the only scoring big man on their entire roster at the time) What happened to Prince and Stuckey?

Odom (Odom was a "sixth man" that started and saw significant minutes in the front court and was clearly the third option on offense when in the game) So now we have a caveat of "when in the game" Artest, Pau and Bynum were the starting frontcourt. He only saw significant minutes due to Bynum injuries...surprise he was traded once Bynum got healthy right?

Jefferson (Manu not in game, Jefferson was the third option) "when in the game" Okay, when Marvin comes off the bench he's the 3rd option "when in the game" makes an assload more of money too.

Ariza (absolutely intended when he signed his deal to be a 3rd option) He was signed with Yao's injury exception, yes, but am I to believe that he was intended to be over either of TMac, Scola, or Aaron Brooks? No, I'm not.

T Young (clearly the third option for Philly when in the game although it seems Collins is switching roles again) His role has always been as the secondary bench scorer with Lou Will. He is the 3rd FORWARD behind Iggy and Brand, how does that equal 3rd option but oh "when in the game"

John Salmons (clearly traded to be a starter, was the 3rd option for the Bucks and Bulls as well) Chicago didn't give him his original deal, Sacramento did and it was to be their 6th man. He was Chicago's 2nd option for a half a season before struggling to beat out Kirk the next, Milwaukee had intended for him to be a 3rd option....how'd that turn out with Maggette and Jackson being traded to replace him season after season? And oh, makes more.

Jackson: (clearly intended to be a third option for the Bucks) How'd that turn out? I guess he's the 3rd "when in the game" now for San Antonio.

Blatche (Clearly intended to be a building block starter, heck forget 3rd option he was going to be the second option before he went lazy) so you admit he was never a 3rd option?

Milsap (CLEARLY matched to a deal with Utah knowing Boozer was gone to be the third option on the team)Boozer gone, check. What about Deron, AK47 and Okur?

Harris (clearly intended to be the 3rd option for the Nets when he was traded there) Then they traded Jefferson so he spent *counts on fingers* 22 games as a 3rd option.

I guess I should stoop to childish insults at this point like the other guy now that I've thrown it back in his face and corrected his laughable asides from his other post.

Yea, you really threw it in my face. Man that Marvin is one overpaid piece of shit. I would love to have Travis Outlaw, Josh Chilldress, Trevor Ariza, Lamar Odom, Charlie Villanueva, Caron Butler and Ron Artest all taking his spot.

[EazyRoc]

He proved nothing. I think I'm getting trolled here because you know you are wrong and just won't admit it. I said several times now and I'll say again: my list showed guys who were signed to be 3rd options, traded to be 3rd options or who are currently operating as 3rd options. Saying some guy wasn't signed to be a 3rd option when he is in fact treated as a 3rd option or was traded to BE a 3rd option is like listing the price of tea in China in relation to what I actually said my list showed. The lack of reading comprehension has to be intentional at this point.

Your original point that started the whole debate was that Marvin was being paid third option starter money. Your list contained people who had become 3rd options due to trades or other circumstances like injuries or players playing in other leagues. Most people signed to be third option starters making 3-7 million more than Marvin. I think I've said that half a dozen times. You produce a list, and Mace poked holes in your argument. Nobody is trolling you or whatever immature excuse you have instead just saying.."I might have been a little overzealous. I was wrong." You can argue semantics and comprehension all you want. The fact is mostly all players signed to be the third option are in fact paid millions more than Marvin Williams.

[Diesel]

Most of this thread is moot and pointless. I don't think that GMs identify a player as a third option before signing them to a deal. I think more likely is that they see what that player brings to the court and weigh that against "Potential"... and conjured up a deal based on that, what they can afford, and what that player could get elsewhere. That's why many times, players are told to go out and test the market to see what you can bring back.

However.....

The Litmus test on Marvin is very simple.

As a fan.

Are you happy with what you get from Marvin for 7.5 Million per??

Can you see a better way to spend that 7.5 Million per?

Aside....

Earlier this season and Last, I was on the let's get Sessions for Marvin bandwagon. I still think that would have been a good deal to get. Kaman also comes to mind.

[01d0rd3r]

Okay, since Sothron continuously wants to use your post as some sort of irrefutable proof that he is right (despite you yourself prefacing that this is your opinion on the matter) I guess I will have to adress your list as well

Jameer Nelson was not signed to be a 3rd option. I will repeat this, the year he was resigned the Magic also gave Shard a max and Hedo won MIP that year. Jameer has vaciliated between being the 4th option behind Dwight, Shard, Hedo/Vince to the 2nd option last year to now finally sharing nearly identical 3rd/4th duties with Jason Richardson. He is also on a higher contract than Marvin.

Marcus Thornton actually was signed to be a 3rd option like I mentioned so agreement there.

Marcin Gortat was not signed to be a 3rd option, Dallas signed him to take over Dampier's role or play off the bench, Orlando matched for him to remain Dwight's 15 mpg backup and he was traded to Phoenix to be Lopez' backup before beating him out for the starters job. If you actually want to be technical he is currently Phoenix's number 1 option considering that he leads the team in shot attempts and points.

Devin Harris I went over ad naseum about him being signed to be the 4th option behind the former Dallas Finals trio of Dirk, Howard and Terry before going off to being no worse than 2nd in NJ. He is currently not Utah's 3rd option, he is 4th in points but 6th in shot attempts. He is also earning nearly 5 million more in total than Marvin.

Jamal Crawford was signed to be a 6th man off the bench behind Aldridge, Wallace, Felton/Matthews. His role as bench scorer does afford him to operate as a 2nd option on occasion but on the whole he doesn't surpass Aldridge, Batum, Matthews and now Hickson.

Arron Afflalo was signed to be the 4th option behind Nene, Lawson, and Gallinari and then would be pushed further back with the return of Wilson Chandler. Only way he could be considered a 3rd option is because of injuries and trade of Nene, Gallo getting injured and Chandler just now returning. He is also signed to a larger contract than Marvin.

Tyrus Thomas was signed to be the 4th option behind Jackson, Wallace and Diaw. Even after all three of those were traded or released he is not even an option for the rebuilding Bobcats behind Kemba Walker, Gerald Henderson, BJ Mullens, Corey Maggette, etc etc etc. He is making more than Marvin.

Kris Humphries was resigned to be a 3rd option behind Deron and Lopez, correct, but it's only a one year deal as a place holder for a max spot next season. It is still a higher salary than Marvin is earning.

So out of your list only 2 players fit the criteria of being 3rd options with another (Jameer) being a maybe. All in all, compiling a list with only 3 third options with none making a smaller annual salary than Marvin doesn't lend at all to the claim that he is overpaid now does it?

Yeah I compiled my list from people who are currently third options on their team, not people who were signed to be third options. So my list is gonna be skewed in the regard. But like I said I dont really care about who wins this argument.

[Sothron]

Your original point that started the whole debate was that Marvin was being paid third option starter money. Your list contained people who had become 3rd options due to trades or other circumstances like injuries or players playing in other leagues. Most people signed to be third option starters making 3-7 million more than Marvin. I think I've said that half a dozen times. You produce a list, and Mace poked holes in your argument. Nobody is trolling you or whatever immature excuse you have instead just saying.."I might have been a little overzealous. I was wrong." You can argue semantics and comprehension all you want. The fact is mostly all players signed to be the third option are in fact paid millions more than Marvin Williams.

I said Marvin was being paid 3rd option money and when YOU asked for a list I provided a list that showed he is clearly in that salary range. Every thing else is silly arguments from a guy that has to stoop to childish insults and you, the guy who asked for the list, refusing to admit the list I gave you proved my argument.I have nothing else to say. I blew the other guy away without resorting to insults. When people think their opinion becomes FACTUAL in a debate as subjective as this there is no point to continue. You wanted a list, you got a list. Game, set, match. Winner: Sothron.

[EazyRoc]

Well he proved that while they may be operating as a third option NOW, but their roles were less significant when they received the contract they have. Which makes your comparison of them to Marvin inaccurate. That's the point I've been trying to make and the fact you have been trying to avoid.

[jy23]

Marv wasn't paid to be a 3rd option anyway....Joe, al, josh...that makes him the fourth option on that team.

[EazyRoc]

Marv wasn't paid to be a 3rd option anyway....Joe, al, josh...that makes him the fourth option on that team.

This.My god. 2 or 3 pages worth of debating over something very simple and very obvious.