More Screen and Rolls Please

[Jody23]

First off, great effort last night. You've got to tip your hat to the team for playing hard. That being said, I want to see more screen and roll, pick and roll plays with Teague and Al. The Celtics had a difficult time guarding this play without leaving someone open. Teague did a great job of turning the corner and either getting in the lane, finding Al for a mid-range shot or layup, or finding someone else (Marvin for three in the corner) when the Celtics try to take away the first two options. I was really suprised when LD went to this play on a HUGE possesion in the fourth instead of force feeding Joe or resorting to a Josh isolation. Again, great effort and wish the Hawks the best on Thursday.

[Peoriabird]

First off, great effort last night. You've got to tip your hat to the team for playing hard. That being said, I want to see more screen and roll, pick and roll plays with Teague and Al. The Celtics had a difficult time guarding this play without leaving someone open. Teague did a great job of turning the corner and either getting in the lane, finding Al for a mid-range shot or layup, or finding someone else (Marvin for three in the corner) when the Celtics try to take away the first two options. I was really suprised when LD went to this play on a HUGE possesion in the fourth instead of force feeding Joe or resorting to a Josh isolation. Again, great effort and wish the Hawks the best on Thursday.

The only problem is when it worked, LD/Joe went right back to those terrible Iso Joe half court possessions which for the most part turned into either bad shots at the end of the shot clock or a turn-over. As much as it pains me to say this but Kenny Smith was right at half-time! We can't win this series giving the ball to Joe Johnson because when Johnson holds that ball like he does on every possession, the Celtics are thanking their lucky stars that we are not using our athletic advantage to beat them.

[Jody23]

The only problem is when it worked, LD/Joe went right back to those terrible Iso Joe half court possessions which for the most part turned into either bad shots at the end of the shot clock or a turn-over. As much as it pains me to say this but Kenny Smith was right at half-time! We can't win this series giving the ball to Joe Johnson because when Johnson holds that ball like he does on every possession, the Celtics are thanking their lucky stars that we are not using our athletic advantage to beat them.

Joe's a really good player. That being said, you and the Jet are absolutely right. He's just not THAT good. Win or lose this series, the dynamic of the "core" needs to change significantly. Not saying blow it up. But, the pecking order if you will needs to change. A team generally takes on the personality of it's best player or the guy that is looked to as the leader. When that guy(s) plays inefficiently or eradictly on a consistent basis, then the team as a whole is consistently going to display the same schizophrenic traits and performance. Bottom line, going forward, the offensive focus needs to be shifted away from Joe and Josh. Edited May 9, 2012 by Jody23

[Guest]

First off, great effort last night. You've got to tip your hat to the team for playing hard. That being said, I want to see more screen and roll, pick and roll plays with Teague and Al. The Celtics had a difficult time guarding this play without leaving someone open. Teague did a great job of turning the corner and either getting in the lane, finding Al for a mid-range shot or layup, or finding someone else (Marvin for three in the corner) when the Celtics try to take away the first two options. I was really suprised when LD went to this play on a HUGE possesion in the fourth instead of force feeding Joe or resorting to a Josh isolation. Again, great effort and wish the Hawks the best on Thursday.

Exactly. If LD wants Joe shooting, get him on the move where he can just catch and shoot without having to pound the ball giving the Celtics time to load up on him. Joe needs to get rid of the ball faster when the double comes - I saw him do that on the one play where Josh missed the dunk, he passed to Al who passed it to Josh. We didn't get points but that kind of ball movement is what we need when Joe has the ball and the double comes, someone has got to be open, just make yourself available at the front of the rim.

[Diesel]

I actually agree. We should PNR them to death for game 6. I would PNR them until they stopped it. They'd think Malone and Stockton were back. The Joe problem is that Joe has to realize that he's being double covered. That's great for the PNR. When there's not a Joe problem, the Josh problem is that he doesn't want to do dirty work of following the drive. Follow the damn drive Josh.

I think 1 thing stands out here... Josh wants to be a star. He wants to be a brand. Possibly to the detriment of the team. I mean, he has watched Horf come in and pass him on the options list. Now he sees Teague come in and be a star of the Chicago series last year. Josh already felt slighted on the money (even though his contract is bigger than Horf's). Now he wants to have the label as leader of the Hawks. He intimidates the PG. He overrules the coach. He does whatever he wants to do on the offense side of the ball. I love Josh... but that's beginning to stand out. The things I have bolded are the facts and they stand without controversy. This year may be the last year with Josh. That's cool if it is.. let's make sure we get something for him. However, there's a great lesson that he must learn along the way and others on our team too...

NO ONE IS GREATER THAN THE TEAM...

Therefore, if we PNR all night, win and Joe only get 10 shots. Joe be a good team member and don't go sulking to the press.

IF we PNR all night and Al scores 33 and Marvin scores 21 and Josh only gets 12... Josh, don't go sulking to the press because you feel that you're the best on the team.

At this point, we've tried it yall's way and it did not work and it was predictable.

Let's beat this team and get to the next series AS A TEAM!!!

[Joker]

Jeff looked sh*tty running the offense. Those saying otherwise never played PG before or you would know Jeff is not a PG nor is he useful at the position. Either way, the PnR worked when Jeff was slashing to score or find others. It didn't otherwise. I could see why Iso Joe would have presendence over it. Boston will pick up on that now that Al is officially back. Boston hasn't seen a solid PnR from Atlanta before hand so now they know.

Edited May 9, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Diesel]

Jeff looked sh*tty running the offense. Those saying otherwise never played PG before or you would know Jeff is not a PG nor is he useful at the position. Either way, the PnR worked when Jeff was slashing to score or find others. It didn't otherwise. I could see why Iso Joe would have presendence over it. Boston will pick up on that now that Al is officially back. Boston hasn't seen a solid PnR from Atlanta before hand so now they know.

If they stop it... good.. Somebody else will be open.Boston's defense (much praised up until now) is simply close down the middle and double Joe. I'm sure it's something that they cooked up for Lebron in Cleveland (that didn't work because Cleveland had shooters). Well, when we play Iso, we play into their hands. When our guys move without the ball, we do something that they can't stop as easy. With a guy like Teague who is not afraid to take it to the cup, we add something else. Boston could plan to stop the PNR but it will disrupt their otherwise strong defense. Teague has to get his Stockton on and learn all the options. He doesn't have to be stockton, just learn what the options are and practice getting the ball to those guys. Having Horf on the court means that KG can't roam.The other secret is that Boston is not really a physical team (except that 7 footer off the bench). We know that they are not physical because they rebound Poorly. Horf is physical. Damp and Zaza are Physical too. I think with Horf and eventually Zaza, we add dimensions to our team that they can't stop.

[Joker]

Boston didn't plan on Al having an impact. Hell, this is his second game back from a year long injury. I expected him to be closer to Ivan than what we know of as Al Horford. They just didn't plan for it. Boston isn't as good as Atlanta anyway. The only issue I have is Rondo is so much better than Teague at PG and it's makes me question if we can beat Boston. I rather Hinrich at PG than Jeff to be honest for defensive purposes.To your point, the PnR can be effective. But Teague has to prove to be a good decision maker when the dribble drive is cut off which is extremely unlikely but still, that is what has to happen. Boston has to change up their laissez faire approach on defense. Doubling Joe isn't all Atlanta is going to do to beat you. The presence of Al gave Jeff the space he needed to attack but it's up to Boston to adjust. Good move by LD but it's great Jeff took advantage of it and Al returned and played at an All NBA level.

[Peoriabird]

No matter how bad Teague is with the PNR, that play is 10 times better than the alternative which is ISO basketball. Something we all know does not work! We all know the definition of insanity right?

[Jody23]

I actually agree. We should PNR them to death for game 6. I would PNR them until they stopped it. They'd think Malone and Stockton were back. The Joe problem is that Joe has to realize that he's being double covered. That's great for the PNR. When there's not a Joe problem, the Josh problem is that he doesn't want to do dirty work of following the drive. Follow the damn drive Josh.

I think 1 thing stands out here... Josh wants to be a star. He wants to be a brand. Possibly to the detriment of the team. I mean, he has watched Horf come in and pass him on the options list. Now he sees Teague come in and be a star of the Chicago series last year. Josh already felt slighted on the money (even though his contract is bigger than Horf's). Now he wants to have the label as leader of the Hawks. He intimidates the PG. He overrules the coach. He does whatever he wants to do on the offense side of the ball. I love Josh... but that's beginning to stand out. The things I have bolded are the facts and they stand without controversy. This year may be the last year with Josh. That's cool if it is.. let's make sure we get something for him. However, there's a great lesson that he must learn along the way and others on our team too...

NO ONE IS GREATER THAN THE TEAM...

Therefore, if we PNR all night, win and Joe only get 10 shots. Joe be a good team member and don't go sulking to the press.

IF we PNR all night and Al scores 33 and Marvin scores 21 and Josh only gets 12... Josh, don't go sulking to the press because you feel that you're the best on the team.

At this point, we've tried it yall's way and it did not work and it was predictable.

Let's beat this team and get to the next series AS A TEAM!!!

This exactly. When will the homers understand ( and that includes you Gearon and Levenson) that as long as Josh plays the way he does, it won't matter who you bring in. Dwight, CP3, Deron. Doesn't matter. This team won't truly contend because he wants his role to be way more then what it should be to the detriment of the team. Edited May 9, 2012 by Jody23

[Admin]

This exactly. When will the homers understand ( and that includes you Gearon and Levenson) that as long as Josh plays the way he does, it won't matter who you bring in. Dwight, CP3, Deron. Doesn't matter. This team won't truly contend because he wants his role to be way more then what it should be to the detriment of the team.

Now this I disagree with as CP3 or Deron wouldn't allow Josh to get away with doing the things he does and they wouldn't give him the ball when he's parked out near the 3pt line. Teague just doesn't have the cache do demand the ball as the PG or to deny giving it to Josh without Josh jumping all over him, which also says a lot about what LD allows to happen.

[Jody23]

Now this I disagree with as CP3 or Deron wouldn't allow Josh to get away with doing the things he does and they wouldn't give him the ball when he's parked out near the 3pt line. Teague just doesn't have the cache do demand the ball as the PG or to deny giving it to Josh without Josh jumping all over him, which also says a lot about what LD allows to happen.

Point taken, and I know it's a moot point as Deron or Paul aren't likely to play for the Hawks, but I'm not so sure that Smoove would back down to them. We're talking about a guy who's been bold enough to defy the Head Coach since his rookie year. I just think you're better not even having to deal with that conflict.

[Joker]

No matter how bad Teague is with the PNR, that play is 10 times better than the alternative which is ISO basketball. Something we all know does not work! We all know the definition of insanity right?

No. Turnovers and killing momentum is worse than Iso Joe which leads to a brick, a missed Off board, a score, or a foul. PnR's can go terriblely wrong in the NBA if not ran correctly.

[Joker]

@Dolf, Josh didn't even do this for Bibby much less Deron or CP3. . Al snd Joe did the samething to Jeff too. Jeff can't play PG. Nuff said'

[Peoriabird]

No. Turnovers and killing momentum is worse than Iso Joe which leads to a brick, a missed Off board, a score, or a foul. PnR's can go terriblely wrong in the NBA if not ran correctly.

Joe Johnson and Josh Smith lead the team in turnovers per game in the playoffs!

[Joker]

Joe Johnson and Josh Smith lead the team in turnovers per game in the playoffs!

How many PnR's did we run?

[AHF]

How many PnR's did we run?

How many turnovers did our PnRs generate for Boston?

[Joker]

How many turnovers did our PnRs generate for Boston?

We haven't ran it enough for conducive reasoning. That wasn't what Peoria insued. He said the PnR is 10x more useful than Iso Joe. I disagreed and said turnovers and wasted possenisons are the reason why. He then asked the question.

[HawkItus]

I think the key is both Iso and PNR with some motion mixed in. We need to run the pnr and iso sets out of the motion. We also seem to Isolate JJ out at the 3. Motion him closer to his sweet spot. As for the pick and roll we should slip it in at different times of the motion. Top of the clock, mid clock, and late in the clock. Keep them guessing.

[HawkNJersey]

I keep hearing this Josh intimidating Teague talk and not giving the ball up to Teague, to bring up the floor....so what do you consider the 4 or 5 times, that Al brought the ball up the floor and on a few occasions, led the fast break? I mean Al was playing in his second game, and he did it...Is this intimidation?