Some junk I gotta get off my chest.

[tonegully]

we need to get into the lottery

[Buzzard]

He is better defensively than Malone and Malone is just more aggressive. Neither created their own shot at a high rate. Heavily assisted players. You give Al a real PnR PG and you guys would sing a different tune to Al.It will cost more than the 7th pick. They will need to give us a prospect or two which they don't have. Pass.

Not feeling it on both your points.Malone was a potential scoring champion waiting to happen. I don't see Horford ever getting there with any PG.7th pick and a decent vet on a big enough contract to make things work will get it done if the ASG thinks Smoove is dead serious about walking/wanting out. I think they do, even more so now after his tirade about the Cetic fans.

[NineOhTheRino]

we need to get into the lottery

agree!time to piss or get off the pot

[Wretch]

Let me also add.....for those that it just has to be spelled out for. There are 5 guys on the court and a bench full of players. I'm not saying that ALL we or any team needs is one guy. I'm saying...YOU DON'T STOP UNTIL YOU GET THAT GUY...then you build the team around HIM. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels and wasting time on nickle and dime free agents.

[KB21]

What's the rationale to hold on for one more year befote going into the lottery? Just what exactly does one more year of the same ole core get you that's so special or worth it?

Because it is easier to go from very good to great than it is to go from lousy to great.http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/03/26/you-don%E2%80%99t-need-to-be-bad-to-be-good-in-the-nba-2/This is the article I linked about the idea of "tanking" to get a lottery pick.Contrary to popular opinion that is a knee jerk reaction after a loss, the Hawks are still a very good basketball team. Their winning percentage from this year would equal around 50 wins in a full season. This is not a horrible team.If you decide to tank though, you may spend the next 8 years as mediocre with little hope of becoming great. See the last time Atlanta did this.

[Joker]

Not feeling it on both your points.Malone was a potential scoring champion waiting to happen. I don't see Horford ever getting there with any PG.7th pick and a decent vet on a big enough contract to make things work will get it done if the ASG thinks Smoove is dead serious about walking/wanting out. I think they do, even more so now after his tirade about the Cetic fans.

Not really. Did you watch his game-tape. He was a good scorer but he wasn't close to Amare in his prime. He was closer to Kemp in terms of scoring. Malone without Stockton wouldn't break 25ppg on a winning team even at the 80's pace and lack of athletic defenders at PF unlike today.It's pointless to trade Josh for a pick unless you are sure that pick will get make you better in the long run. Trading Smoove for another bust isn't worth it.

[EazyRoc]

What? He made the statements that this team needs a star, lacks fan support (for good reason) and that yes, Josh often plays out of role. Never once did I read "Josh is the sole reason the Hawks lost". Now, you take your "blinders" off and tell me what was untrue about anything Wretch said in that post.

I agree with most of what he posted, but I guess you missed that entire paragraph calling out Josh Smiths shortcomings and no one else's. He doesn't have to explicitly say anything like you describe. My reading comprehension skills are good enough to understand what he was trying to say.

[Joker]

I really think Al needs an elite PnR PG to prove you guys completely wrong. You guys really disrespect dudes game on here something serious. He is the best player if he had the right personnel by a mile. A state to be honest. Dude is a top tier defender, an elite movement player, and has high BBIQ. I really don't have nothing bad to say about his skill-set, just his personnel.Get the damn man an elite PnR PG. That's all he needs.

[Jody23]

Because it is easier to go from very good to great than it is to go from lousy to great.http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/03/26/you-don%E2%80%99t-need-to-be-bad-to-be-good-in-the-nba-2/This is the article I linked about the idea of "tanking" to get a lottery pick.Contrary to popular opinion that is a knee jerk reaction after a loss, the Hawks are still a very good basketball team. Their winning percentage from this year would equal around 50 wins in a full season. This is not a horrible team.If you decide to tank though, you may spend the next 8 years as mediocre with little hope of becoming great. See the last time Atlanta did this.

I'm not talking about tanking. I'm talking about realizing the current core isn't good enough to LEGITIMATELY compete for a title let alone win one. I'm talking about moving a guy for a high pick now instead of waiting another year only to lose him for nothing. It makes no sense basketball wise or money wise to run this same team again. There is really no added benefit to waiting to reshuffle the core. Only risk. Edited May 16, 2012 by Jody23

[Jody23]

I agree with most of what he posted, but I guess you missed that entire paragraph calling out Josh Smiths shortcomings and no one else's. He doesn't have to explicitly say anything like you describe. My reading comprehension skills are good enough to understand what he was trying to say.

Nope. I caught that paragraph and every word of it was true. Glad you caught it too.

[EazyRoc]

Nope. I caught that paragraph and every word of it was true. Glad you caught it too.

Which is why I said I was tired of people making Josh Smith a scapegoat for our teams struggles. He mentions Josh Smiths shortcomings as if that is the sole reason this team isn't accomplishing anything when there is more to it. I guess it doesnt matter when someone has a vendetta though...

[Wretch]

Every Player in the league makes mistakes. I'm not calling out Josh for his mistakes, NOR HAVE I EVER. You also have me confused with those who blame the teams shortcomings on just him - or haters. Firstly, I have for over 20 YEARS blamed the team's inability to get out of the 2nd round on our LACK OF A TRUE STAR. if you read carefully, and look at all the pictures I posted (instead of mindlessly assuming everybody hates Smoove), then you might have noticed that at the very start of the thread. Secondly, look at my signature and SEE the only two Hawks in it. I am not a hater. Don't put me in that box. What I am calling him out on are things that he does WILLINGLY that only HE thinks he is capable of doing. That is legitimate criticism and many a prominent basketball mind shares the same opinion.

[EazyRoc]

You misunderstand what I was trying to say to Joey23. I saw your post clarifying your POV. However, just based off your original post it wasn't outrageous of me to make that assumption (that you were using Josh as a scapegoat) like he was trying to make it seem. Because despite everything that I've already stated I agreed with, I also noticed how you singled out Josh in the final paragraph of your original post. Which led me to believe, logically, that you were scapegoating Josh just as several posters have over the past few days.

Edited May 17, 2012 by EazyRoc

[tonegully]

Im ready to start over. I cant take this anymore. Blow it up. Tank for 3 years. Draft high and most importantly let the draft picks play. not sent on the bench. I just want us to get a star and im wiling to suck for the next 3-5 years to do it so we can win. We are in the worst position you can be as a team.

[Wretch]

I stopped taking sides back around 2006. I had spent so many years being the outcast because of where I stand right now. So many long winded posts, crying for a PG. Defending Josh Childress and his awkward shot... I even defended Shelden, saying to give him a chance. My position has ALWAYS been that once a player puts on that uniform, I support them no matter what.

See...I'm not one of these guys that just hates for no reason. There are people who honestly think Joe Johnson is nothing more than a bench player. There are people who believe Jeff Teague has NO potential. There are even people who believe that Larry Drew, with all of his years as an assistant and player, has no knowledge of basketball. I've never been that guy. When I stopped riding the merry-go-round, I decided to just stand on the fence and not take a side, focusing mostly on positives and giving a player or coach or GM plenty of room for evaluation. I'm coming down off the fence now because it is WAY past time for one particular player to GROW UP.

And I will keep saying it... On a team looking to make the conference finals, let alone the NBA FINALS, there is little room for error when you're playing star powered teams like Chicago and Miami. When you are facing fierce up and coming talent like Indiana and Philly. Or when you face heavily favored, crafty vets like Boston.

It's bad enough when you're missing shots, free throws, and not rebounding...but all you can do is give it your all. Every player on the court, including Josh, has the hunger to be better. Nobody wants to LOSE. They may not know the real hustle of a team like Boston or Chicago, but they're not lazy and unmotivated. So again, you can't really dump on a guy like Al that misses free throws.

YES you need to make them.

YES it was a critical play.

YES he should have concentrated.

But did he sit there and say, "Hmm....I'm going to miss these shots! And piss everybody off!" The same guy that has given us so much lift and emotion every year in the playoffs? The same guy that told the Celtics to get the f*** off our court? No. Al just missed a free throw. Pretty simple and certainly not of his choice. Not by a LONG shot the first player to do so...and better players have missed more crucial free throws. That's a part of the game.

Compare that with Josh standing there FORCING a shot that....MY GOD...he NEVER HITS. He never makes that shot. It's not a bad shot, it is an unforgivable USELESS shot....and it does it ALL THE DAMN TIME.

You've got the greatest Hawk to ever play saying he needs to give the ball up on the break to a guard. You've got Bob Rathbun saying that was not a good shot. You've got the great majority of the fans tired of that damn shot. You've got coaches refusing the put him in the All Star game, despite Josh being in class all his own. You've got one of the best Hawks coaches of all time...TWO of them...saying he needs to let the game come to him and not force shots, to pick his head up, and not try to play PG.

How does anyone SIT here and STILL try to defend him? It's MIND NUMBING.

No it's not all his fault. I haven't said that once. I've only said that the useless shit has to go...and it does. IT. DOES. YES I'm singling him out because for the love of God man..............he's one of TWO players on this team that chooses to do shit detrimental to us winning. The other guy? Marvin, get my paycheck and disappear, Williams. But at least Marvin has the excuse that he's a wuss, nobody believes in him, and more aggressive players have stolen his shots and his mojo. We don't live and die by Marvin. Josh Smith is the heart of this team...we can't have him on the court f***ing the team over.

We can't keep making any sort of excuse for Josh and it's time to stop making excuses for this team. It was time YEARS ago when we got blown out by the Magic. We aren't going anywhere without an engine. You can do all the tweaking you want. But unless somebody on this team absolutely breaks out or we trade for a diamond in the rough...ain't nothing happening but Kobe jerseys being sold in our house, green shirts filling up the stands, bandwagon fans filling up the arena to support the marquee teams when they come to town, and an early exit from the playoffs.

You got three choices from there.......

Stay pat and stay a 4-5 seed, mabye scratch the 2nd round and flail out. You get your ass in the lottery. Or you make a trade. My vote goes to not prolonging the inevitable. I'm ok with making trades, but that we shouldn't be talking like that's the be all end all. Just like the draft doesn't work out, neither do trades always.

...or do I have to point the finger at this guy:

[EazyRoc]

My thing is we lost as a team. Joe, Josh, and Teague all could have done things differently. As much as people rag on Marv, he played as good as anyone in the last game.

[Buzzard]

Not really. Did you watch his game-tape. He was a good scorer but he wasn't close to Amare in his prime. He was closer to Kemp in terms of scoring. Malone without Stockton wouldn't break 25ppg on a winning team even at the 80's pace and lack of athletic defenders at PF unlike today.It's pointless to trade Josh for a pick unless you are sure that pick will get make you better in the long run. Trading Smoove for another bust isn't worth it.

I am 54 years old and watched Malone and Stockton for years. So no, I did not watch his game tape. I watched him live lmao. Your opinion about Malones game is no different than saying Amare or Dirk without Nash could not break 25 ppg which is BS.Malone scored at will and was the most productive, consistent offensive PF in the game. You are killing me with this comparing Horford to Malone. If you said McHale I could live with that, but no PF playing the game right now is in Malone's category for what he was able to do 15ft and in.

[Sothron]

I find it amusing that if anyone points out Josh's obvious flaws then somehow that person is a hater. The only player on our team that has people on this site as genuine haters who ignore everything positive that players brings and focus only on the negative is Joe Johnson.Anyways, this core isn't winning a title. The ownership is too cheap to hire a real head coach or bring the scouting department up to NBA standards. They will never pay the luxury tax. We need to keep Horford and perhaps Teague and rebuild around them but I sincerely doubt the A$G will let Sund or whoever the next GM may be do that.

[Jody23]

I find it amusing that if anyone points out Josh's obvious flaws then somehow that person is a hater. The only player on our team that has people on this site as genuine haters who ignore everything positive that players brings and focus only on the negative is Joe Johnson.Anyways, this core isn't winning a title. The ownership is too cheap to hire a real head coach or bring the scouting department up to NBA standards. They will never pay the luxury tax. We need to keep Horford and perhaps Teague and rebuild around them but I sincerely doubt the A$G will let Sund or whoever the next GM may be do that.

I agree. It's pass time for the Organization and fans to get out of the PPF (Player Protection Force) and call things like they are. Yet, you have some that are so scared of perhaps losing their favorite player or that player being criticized that they label anything negative said about them as "hate" even if it's true. I'm about this team and players playing the right way consistently and being sucessful for doing so. Any player or executive who proves to be counter productive to that aim needs to be removed. Sadly, it doesn't seem the ownership, management and many in the fan base have that as the aim. Edited May 17, 2012 by Jody23

[Joker]

I am 54 years old and watched Malone and Stockton for years. So no, I did not watch his game tape. I watched him live lmao. Your opinion about Malones game is no different than saying Amare or Dirk without Nash could not break 25 ppg which is BS.Malone scored at will and was the most productive, consistent offensive PF in the game. You are killing me with this comparing Horford to Malone. If you said McHale I could live with that, but no PF playing the game right now is in Malone's category for what he was able to do 15ft and in.

Amare and Dirk are far more gifted on offense than Malone. Those guys are clearly #1 options. You can be 80 years old, doesn't make you know what your talking about. Example: Diesel. Most of Malone work is heavily assisted. He struggled with creating his own offense otherwise. To say otherwise is hilarious to me when the game-tape says otherwise. Either you have nostalgic moments or you don't know what you are talking about.