Some junk I gotta get off my chest.

[Buzzard]

Those guys are clearly #1 options. Either you have nostalgic moments or you don't know what you are talking about.

I have forgotten more about basketball than you have ever known and this is a perfect example of me being able to prove it. Here is one thing I have not forgotten, #1 options get to the line. Malone AVERAGED almost 9 free throws a game over a 19 year career. I guess now you will it was Stockton taking all those hits for him.I am done with this. It is incredulous that anyone who has a hint of what a HOF PF is would dish Malone like you have. Just proves how much you don't know, so please continue so we can continue being entertained. Edited May 17, 2012 by Buzzard

[Joker]

I have forgotten more about basketball than you have ever known and this is a perfect example of me being able to prove it. Here is one thing I have not forgotten, #1 options get to the line. Malone AVERAGED almost 9 free throws a game over a 19 year career. I guess now you will it was Stockton taking all those hits for him.I am done with this. It is incredulous that anyone who has a hint of what a HOF PF is would dish Malone like you have. Just proves how much you don't know, so please continue so we can continue being entertained.

He played with an elite PnR PG in a high paced era in weak PF era. You need to be done, you need to watch the tape. I swear some of you guys wouldn't know a good Basketball player if it was right in front of you.You see the same Stephen Jackson who was terrible in Milwaukee was good for the Squrs in the same year. If you knew Basketball, you would know why but you don't. You like to talk but nothing makes sense Buzzard.

[Wretch]

My thing is we lost as a team. Joe, Josh, and Teague all could have done things differently. As much as people rag on Marv, he played as good as anyone in the last game.

I don't doubt that. That's the first thing you learn when you play the game. Any game. Doesn't matter if the goalie misjudged and it came down to one shot or the bobble by the shortstop that led to a 2-run homer, instead of a 1. You an always point at things that could have been done better.

Things that cause you to lose:

Being outclassed - nobody on this team can trade shots with Kevin Durant. A guy like Joe gives it 100%, but he's probably still going to come up short. Even if it comes down to one shot. in this situation, you say that he did what he could. You praise him for the effort and you move on. Like Game 3, that was just a tip of the hat, gutsy effort by the team. They just came up short.

Missing opportunities - This is missed free throws. Not boxing out and giving up offensive rebounds. Careless turnovers. Lapses in concentration. Bad calls by the coach. All of that type of thing is a part of the game. In which case, you call out players and you move on. These things happen so many times during a game, even by the best teams. You throw your hands up in frustration, but inevitably...the better team is going to win.

Pretty much, everything that you could say about the team would fall under being outclassed or missing opportunities. Hell, game 2 was a complete missed opportunity. The season and this series loss is on the team - injuries, better teams beating us, missed opportunities. Let's draw a line right here. Because there is something else that causes you to lose - getting away from your game.

See, this is as much on Mike Woodson, Larry Drew, and all of Hawks management as it is on Josh Smith. There are things that are just not in Smoove's game. When he does these things, it's like...he has his own game going on. The Celtics are trying to win theirs. The Hawks are trying to win theirs. And Josh Smith is trying to do things that he cannot do.

If you can't dribble, then why are you trying to lead the break with guards on either side? Players that can assist you with getting EASY baskets. Baskets that could win you games. Especially when they come down to a couple of possessions. See, this is where people get lost. The ball has to come out of Smoove's hands, otherwise...he's going to dribble it into a defender and lose it. That's not a missed opportunity or being outclassed. That's just giving away possessions.

Joe or Marvin taking a 3 and missing. Teague missing a drive to the hoop. Al missing a 15' shot or a free throw. The team getting outworked on the glass...none of that is a CHOICE not really.

It becomes a different thing when Josh Smith WILLINGLY chooses to take very difficult shots that he cannot make. It is a different thing when he WILLINGLY refuses to give the ball up and turns it over. Both of these things happen like clockwork. He has no business doing either. All it does is help HIM prove a point and help the OTHER team.

Those missed opportunities and situations where we can be better? That's for the coach to point out and work on. That's on the team. This ridiculous stuff that has no place but to serve one player and the teams we play against...that's on the whole organization to call Josh Smith out on.

Which really brings up an interesting point. Everybody BUT our organization and our team has called Josh Smith out on it. The fans, the media, the greats...all of these people have already spoken. Interestingly enough, Josh Smith doesn't listen to any of them.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Wretch

[AHF]

Here is one thing I have not forgotten, #1 options get to the line. Malone AVERAGED almost 9 free throws a game over a 19 year career. I guess now you will it was Stockton taking all those hits for him.I am done with this. It is incredulous that anyone who has a hint of what a HOF PF is would dish Malone like you have.

I have had this discussion with nbasuperstar before. I will merely say that I agree with Buzzard and think Malone is seriously undervalued by nbasupstar.Just as a point of reference, the Jazz started the 97-98 season without Stockton. It was the only significant period of time missed by Stockton in his remarkable career. In 18 games without Stockton, an age 34 Karl Malone averaged 24.9 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 52.3 fg%.If an in-his-prime Horford averages that over an 18 game stretch at any time next season, I will be thrilled.

[Joker]

I have had this discussion with nbasuperstar before. I will merely say that I agree with Buzzard and think Malone is seriously undervalued by nbasupstar.Just as a point of reference, the Jazz started the 97-98 season without Stockton. It was the only significant period of time missed by Stockton in his remarkable career. In 18 games without Stockton, an age 34 Karl Malone averaged 24.9 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 52.3 fg%.If an in-his-prime Horford averages that over an 18 game stretch at any time next season, I will be thrilled.

So? Malone was established superstar by that time. Nevermind, I can argue all day about this. The fact remain that Malone had a prefect set-up and system. At LA Tech he wasn't a dynamic scorer. He had trouble creating his shot. He was heavily assisted. It's not really up for discussion especially before he was established.Malone is not undervalued by me. I love Karl's game, but the scenarios are NOT the same. This is a shitty scenario for Horford. One of the worst in the NBA for a player of his ability. Hell, Joe too is in a shitty scenario. You guys can say what you want, I go by the film and what my notes and what my eyes rely to my brain. It's been extremely reliable in the past.Malone played next to Mark Eaton and Ostertag. He had Eisley who was a good backup and Stockton HOF. He had Jeff H and Russell. He wasn't playing with Josh Smith as his running mate who is constantly never in the paint and doing what he shouldn't because he thinks he can. Marvin who is a terrible fit as well for Atlanta. Joe who ball stops but can't create for others in no real way. Can't PnR, can't beat his man off the dribble for a dish, slow when doubled off the double team.Not the same scenario.

[AHF]

Not the same scenario.

Agreed. I disagree on Malone's impact outside of the Utah system.

[Wretch]

Karl....The Mailman...Malone.....

This dude...?

This guy...?

ALL TIME LEADERS: POINTS PLAYER G FG FT PPG PTS 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 15,837 6,712 24.6 38,387 2. Karl Malone 1,476 13,528 9,787 25.0 36,928 3. Michael Jordan 1,072 12,192 7,327 30.1 32,292 4. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 12,681 6,057 30.1 31,419 5. Kobe Bryant 1,161 10,286 7,407 25.4 29,484 6. Shaquille O'Neal 1,207 11,330 5,935 23.7 28,596 7. Moses Malone 1,329 9,435 8,531 20.6 27,409 8. Elvin Hayes 1,303 10,976 5,356 21.0 27,313 9. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,238 10,749 5,423 21.8 26,946 10. Oscar Robertson 1,040 9,508 7,694 25.7 26,710

The dude on the right...?

We're talking about dude standing there with THESE guys...?

This motherf***er...?

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=IASPaR9OIGs&feature=fvwrel

We talking about THAT Karl Malone or we talking about this Karl Malone? If we're talking about the FORMER, then I'm not going to mention anybody else's name in this post. I think we have a guy on this team who would do well to try and mimic Karl Malone's game, and I've been saying that for years. But there is just something too big and too badass in this post that is preventing me from mentioning his name.

Dear.........God......................................

Edited May 17, 2012 by Wretch

[Sothron]

I agree with nba on the desperate need to use Al in a PNR system because frankly I think Horf would be Malone Version 2.0 and would murder people with his ability to hit the mid range jumper or use his speed to attack the rim. In my imagination when I blow up the Hawks this is exactly what I suggest we become: a PNR team that makes Al Horford the number one scorer and letting him murder people like Malone did.I disagree with nba on Malone without Stockton. Malone was a monster on both sides of the court.

[Joker]

I didn't say he was bad, just had trouble creating his own offense. Damn man. I actually like Karl, you guys are making it seems like I am saying he sucks. I think the world of him but he's not in Dirk or prime Amare class in terms creating his own offense.

Edited May 17, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[AHF]

I didn't say he was bad, just had trouble creating his own offense. Damn man. I actually like Karl, you guys are making it seems like I am saying he sucks. I think the world of him but he's not in Dirk or prime Amare class in terms creating his own offense.

Prime Amare was 25 ppg. Most of us don't see that as a high water mark for Karl Malone's prime even on a different team.

[Joker]

Prime Amare was 25 ppg. Most of us don't see that as a high water mark for Karl Malone's prime even on a different team.

Amare had 5 less in usage rate a FGA. This is like saying Stackhouse avg 30 ppg, Kobe only scoring 27 ppg. Stack at creating his offense> Kobe. That's why the tape is so important and the stats say Malone is heavily assisted as well.

[Joker]

Look at this list. This is Amare assisted stats in 2004.http://www.82games.com/feeders.htm

[AHF]

Amare had 5 less in usage rate a FGA. This is like saying Stackhouse avg 30 ppg, Kobe only scoring 27 ppg. Stack at creating hisoffense> Kobe. That's why the tape is so important and the stats say Malone is heavily assisted as well.

Amare had a 30.9 usage rate and scored 25.3 ppg last season on 19.0 shots last season (age 28). In Karl's age 28 season, he had a lower usage rate (30.3) and scored 28.0 ppg on fewer shots (18.3). The next season, Karl usage rate was 28.4 and he averaged 27.0 ppg.Here are some of Amare's seasons in comparison:Karl Malone Age 2928.4% - 27.0Amare USG% - PPG (Age)30.4% - 25.3 28.3% - 26.0 28.2% - 25.2Here are Amare's seasons over his career:26.025.325.223,121.420.620.417.513.58.7Nobody will be talking about him 5 years after he has retired.

[AHF]

Look at this list. This is Amare assisted stats in 2004.http://www.82games.com/feeders.htm

So Nash set him up more than any other player in the league was set up by their PG. How does that make him better than Karl Malone as a scorer?

[Joker]

So Nash set him up more than any other player in the league was set up by their PG. How does that make him better than Karl Malone as a scorer?

4) Players most reliant on one teammate for feeds, part II

So this sort is by the percentage of a player's total field goals made coming from assists from one passer. This allows for players who create their own shots (eg a Vince Carter) to get a more fair shake perhaps in the measurement of dependency. (Minimum 100 total FGM) Team Scorer Assister Ast'd FG % of FG's ORL Cato Francis 65 40.6% SAS Bowen Parker 101 40.2% PHO Marion Nash 245 39.9% NYK K.Thomas Marbury 165 38.9% PHI Webber Iverson 53 37.0% CLE Newble James 67 36.8% PHI Dalembert Iverson 88 35.2% NJN Carter Kidd 198 34.6% TOR Carter Alston 43 34.6% CHI Duhon Hinrich 59 34.3%

One thing is for sure, in Philly it's all about Iverson. Five of the top thirty-one most dependent players are Sixers getting the ball from A.I. -- and new arrival Webber is already "fitting in" to the program by depending heavily on a feed from the main man.

You also see a lot of catch and shoot types on the expanded top twenty list -- Bowen, Newble, D.Jones (fed by Wade), Q-Rich (from you know who). There's no shame of course in relying on an exceptional Point Guard to deliver the ball to you, so long as you are making it count when it comes to your hands.

[Guest]

Forget all this mumbo jumbo stats crap....using my eyes, Karl Malone all day every day.

[coachx]

Nevermind, I can argue all day

Well....who didn't know that ?......in Buck Belue's slow Southern draw.