jenkins

[tbhawksfan]

A couple of needy trades could give him a bigger role. Invest in the future. the Hawks present has a limited ceiling.

[AHF]

I want to see Jenkins developed but give this team some time before anyone gets bent out of shape. Look at the pick around Jenkins in the draft. Picks 14-27 (Jenkins picked #23)9 players with zero minutes5 players who have played a single minute - of those 5 players only 2 have played 20 or more minutes so far this seasonWe aren't outside the range of normal for this early in the year. Wait and see where this goes, particularly since our roster has a lot of moving parts this year.

[gurpilo]

I want to see Jenkins developed but give this team some time before anyone gets bent out of shape. Look at the pick around Jenkins in the draft. Picks 14-27 (Jenkins picked #23) 9 players with zero minutes 5 players who have played a single minute - of those 5 players only 2 have played 20 or more minutes so far this season We aren't outside the range of normal for this early in the year. Wait and see where this goes, particularly since our roster has a lot of moving parts this year.

That could be true, I haven't checked it but sure no of that teams have a hole as we have at SG. Even when the opportunity is there we are not able to develop a young player. I remember the first season of Teague, he did a tremendous preseason scoring around 11-12 ppg, and 5 apg, and then he did not play on any game even with a big hole at PG, that simply has no sense, I agree we are the worst NBA team on developing and thus drafting young talent.

[frankthetank966]

Reality is historically that Hawks either don't develop or play rookies or young guys unless they are forced to so if we keep playing like we did against the Thunder then you forget about seeing Jenkins getting playing time.

Danny Ferry is already trying to change that. He does not believe that philosophy. He is all for growth and development. Look at the minutes Tolliver is already getting. I'm sure once he gets a few games DF will decide if it's time to move onto the next guy like JJ or Scott.

[DatWerkk]

I'm not following this. It seems highly likely that he isn't ready to play in the nba. Should we play him just because we drafted him? A lot of guys drafted in his range are out of the league in a couple years without ever being rotation players. I'm a fan of winning games. I'm sure he is learning plenty at practice.

What you're saying isn't much different from what I said. I can understand limiting him to about 5ish mpg this early in the season if they feel he's not ready. That's fine. But if this turns into a long string of DNPCDs then something is wrong. Either LD is messing up or we picked him too high. One need only look at how Mike Woodson delayed Jeff Teague's growth to see what I'm talking about.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Are you kidding me. Acie played in 110+ games in 2 years as a Hawk. In the FIVE years since then he's played in about 80 nba games. If anything we played Acie waaay too much. People complain about free agents not wanting to come here think what it would be like if they saw solid nba vets sitting while undeserving rookies kick the ball around. Where is Salim, Solo, friggin Sheldon, Royal Ivey. Two games into the season and its 'well we aren't winning the championship so why try to win games?' I just don't get it. Sorry, my rant for the day.

111 games 1425 minutes ( 12.8 min per game ) 7 total starts ( actually started in Game 3 of his rookie year, before getting hurt in Game 8 ) I wouldn't call that "developing Acie" or playing him too much. He proved that he just couldn't play in this league though, because he couldn't shoot, or finish at the rim.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

the dleague is against guys that can't make it in the league. U RARELY see somebody go to the dleague, come back and then produce. Nobody that good gets sent to the dleague. If drew wasn't a terrible coach he'd find minutes for him while he's trotting out unproductive VET players every night smh. all the good coaches in this league find time for their young guys.

You're saying it right Cwell. If a 1st round pick gets sent to the D-League, something has gone horribly wrong, or the team is so stacked that they just can't find minutes for the kid. That's not the case in Atlanta. What we do, is waste minutes on veteran guys who we KNOW aren't going to any get better than what they've already shown in their career. And for the most part, all of those guys have been one year rentals. So instead of a guy like Ivan Johnson getting a set amount of minutes to prove that he can be an impact rotation player on a nightly basis, he has to play behind a guy like Anthony Tolliver . . a guy who is on his 5th team in 5 years, and someone who will NOT be here next year. And instead of John Jenkins being given a chance to see if his skill as a sharpshooter can translate to the NBA, he has to watch guys like Anthony Morrow, Kyle Korver, and Deshawn Stevenson get the call ahead of him. None of those guys are probably on this team next year either. And none of them may be a better shooter either. Jenkins, because he won't get a chance to play, won't get a chance to shine like Isaiah Thomas ( of Sacramento ) did last year, despite being the LAST player picked in the 2011 draft. And he has no chance to be Norris Cole of Miami, who dropped 20 points on Boston in his 2nd game of his career, and developed an almost cult like following amongst their fans ( they called him the "Cole Train" . . . as in "Soul Train" ) Jenkins can't even get Jimmer Fredette type minutes, to see if his shooting translates to the NBA level. If this is truly a "transition year", the Hawks need to stop throwing out guys that aren't vital to our future. But because Drew is a "lame duck" coach this year, he's going to play guys in which he feels can win him the most games. And if there's one thing about Drew, is that his evaluation of rookie talent early on in their careers is poor at best. It's almost unbelievable to see that an injury to a limited PG like Hinrich was the thing that finally gave Teague his chance. Had Hinrich not got hurt, and Teague not performed the way he did in that Chicago series, Teague still may not have been the starter going into the 2011 - 12 season. I'm with you Cwell. I'd much rather see if guys like Ivan and Jenkins can play well over their heads, than to see vet players not be able to take their game to the next level, because we already know their limitations.

[macdaddy]

111 games 1425 minutes ( 12.8 min per game ) 7 total starts ( actually started in Game 3 of his rookie year, before getting hurt in Game 8 ) I wouldn't call that "developing Acie" or playing him too much. He proved that he just couldn't play in this league though, because he couldn't shoot, or finish at the rim.

[macdaddy]

111 games 1425 minutes ( 12.8 min per game ) 7 total starts ( actually started in Game 3 of his rookie year, before getting hurt in Game 8 ) I wouldn't call that "developing Acie" or playing him too much. He proved that he just couldn't play in this league though, because he couldn't shoot, or finish at the rim.

Did you consider the possibility that these coaches who have spent their life in the nba figured this out quickly. That they recognized early onwhat 7 years has proven? anyway. We just disagree. I don't consider this a throw away year. I'm all for jenkins getting some time but wining games and earning playing time comes first.

[Cwell]

You're saying it right Cwell. If a 1st round pick gets sent to the D-League, something has gone horribly wrong, or the team is so stacked that they just can't find minutes for the kid. That's not the case in Atlanta. What we do, is waste minutes on veteran guys who we KNOW aren't going to any get better than what they've already shown in their career. And for the most part, all of those guys have been one year rentals. So instead of a guy like Ivan Johnson getting a set amount of minutes to prove that he can be an impact rotation player on a nightly basis, he has to play behind a guy like Anthony Tolliver . . a guy who is on his 5th team in 5 years, and someone who will NOT be here next year. And instead of John Jenkins being given a chance to see if his skill as a sharpshooter can translate to the NBA, he has to watch guys like Anthony Morrow, Kyle Korver, and Deshawn Stevenson get the call ahead of him. None of those guys are probably on this team next year either. And none of them may be a better shooter either. Jenkins, because he won't get a chance to play, won't get a chance to shine like Isaiah Thomas ( of Sacramento ) did last year, despite being the LAST player picked in the 2011 draft. And he has no chance to be Norris Cole of Miami, who dropped 20 points on Boston in his 2nd game of his career, and developed an almost cult like following amongst their fans ( they called him the "Cole Train" . . . as in "Soul Train" ) Jenkins can't even get Jimmer Fredette type minutes, to see if his shooting translates to the NBA level. If this is truly a "transition year", the Hawks need to stop throwing out guys that aren't vital to our future. But because Drew is a "lame duck" coach this year, he's going to play guys in which he feels can win him the most games. And if there's one thing about Drew, is that his evaluation of rookie talent early on in their careers is poor at best. It's almost unbelievable to see that an injury to a limited PG like Hinrich was the thing that finally gave Teague his chance. Had Hinrich not got hurt, and Teague not performed the way he did in that Chicago series, Teague still may not have been the starter going into the 2011 - 12 season. I'm with you Cwell. I'd much rather see if guys like Ivan and Jenkins can play well over their heads, than to see vet players not be able to take their game to the next level, because we already know their limitations.

exactly. I swear we are the only team to never have their young guys play in the rookie sophomore game. Al was the only one and that was because it was a forced issue. I remember Al's first few games Woody was determined to start Zaza over him it was crazy. Jeff Teague is considered one of the better young PG's in the league right now, yet he wasn't even an afterthought for the game his first 2 years. There were guys much worse than Teague that got their little national spotlight all star weekend. The world was wondering "who the hell is this #0 guy going tick for tack with Derrick Rose" in the playoffs 2 years ago

[tonegully]

We do not know how to develop players. We draft and put them straight on the bench. Scott and Jenkins should be getting some minutes. I dont care if they are meaningless. The guys will never be ready if you never play them. Sending them to the D-league is a complete joke. This organization needs to start playing these players.

[tonegully]

exactly. I swear we are the only team to never have their young guys play in the rookie sophomore game. Al was the only one and that was because it was a forced issue. I remember Al's first few games Woody was determined to start Zaza over him it was crazy. Jeff Teague is considered one of the better young PG's in the league right now, yet he wasn't even an afterthought for the game his first 2 years. There were guys much worse than Teague that got their little national spotlight all star weekend. The world was wondering "who the hell is this #0 guy going tick for tack with Derrick Rose" in the playoffs 2 years ago

I agree with you. This organization is terrible when it comes to giving rookies playing time. How is Jenkins the best shooter in the draft but cant get a couple of minutes in the game. You have to play the players to see what they can do, not judge them off practice

[macdaddy]

I agree with you. This organization is terrible when it comes to giving rookies playing time. How is Jenkins the best shooter in the draft but cant get a couple of minutes in the game. You have to play the players to see what they can do, not judge them off practice

Unless they totally suck in practice. I'm not saying Jenkins does but what if he's getting embarrassed in practice and can't hang. Should he still be put out in an nba game? We have no knowledge of this. To say he should automatically be given playing time because we picked him seems crazy to me. As someone pointed out in this thread, most of the guys picked around him haven't played either so i don't see where the Hawks have some bent against playing our picks. Historically i think our picks have not been that good.

[willthepureshooter]

You're saying it right Cwell. If a 1st round pick gets sent to the D-League, something has gone horribly wrong, or the team is so stacked that they just can't find minutes for the kid. That's not the case in Atlanta. What we do, is waste minutes on veteran guys who we KNOW aren't going to any get better than what they've already shown in their career. And for the most part, all of those guys have been one year rentals. So instead of a guy like Ivan Johnson getting a set amount of minutes to prove that he can be an impact rotation player on a nightly basis, he has to play behind a guy like Anthony Tolliver . . a guy who is on his 5th team in 5 years, and someone who will NOT be here next year. And instead of John Jenkins being given a chance to see if his skill as a sharpshooter can translate to the NBA, he has to watch guys like Anthony Morrow, Kyle Korver, and Deshawn Stevenson get the call ahead of him. None of those guys are probably on this team next year either. And none of them may be a better shooter either. Jenkins, because he won't get a chance to play, won't get a chance to shine like Isaiah Thomas ( of Sacramento ) did last year, despite being the LAST player picked in the 2011 draft. And he has no chance to be Norris Cole of Miami, who dropped 20 points on Boston in his 2nd game of his career, and developed an almost cult like following amongst their fans ( they called him the "Cole Train" . . . as in "Soul Train" ) Jenkins can't even get Jimmer Fredette type minutes, to see if his shooting translates to the NBA level. If this is truly a "transition year", the Hawks need to stop throwing out guys that aren't vital to our future. But because Drew is a "lame duck" coach this year, he's going to play guys in which he feels can win him the most games. And if there's one thing about Drew, is that his evaluation of rookie talent early on in their careers is poor at best. It's almost unbelievable to see that an injury to a limited PG like Hinrich was the thing that finally gave Teague his chance. Had Hinrich not got hurt, and Teague not performed the way he did in that Chicago series, Teague still may not have been the starter going into the 2011 - 12 season. I'm with you Cwell. I'd much rather see if guys like Ivan and Jenkins can play well over their heads, than to see vet players not be able to take their game to the next level, because we already know their limitations.

Northcyde!!!!! LOL! Nice post man, you basically took the words out of my mouth. Championship caliber teams use their draft picks. Drews decision will continue to cripple the Hawks growth.

[DatWerkk]

Minutes Per Game for draft picks 18-28

Terrence Jones 0.0

Andrew Nicholson 9.0

Evan Fournier 8.5

Jared Sullinger 18.7

Fab Melo 0.0

John Jenkins 0.0

Jared Cunningham 5.0

Tony Wroten 0.0

Miles Plumlee 4.0

Arnett Moultrie 3.0

Perry Jones III 5.0

Wroten sprained his ankle during the preseason and was in a walking boot. Not sure if he's healed already but that could easily explain his lack of minutes. Terrence Jones I have no explanation for since many expected him to average double-digit minutes.

Everyone else though is getting PT, even if it's only five minutes per game. Those five minutes could be valuable: valuable to the player to give him experience and confidence, and valuable to the coaching staff to really gauge his talent. You ain't getting either if your guy is averaging 0.0.

[macdaddy]

Northcyde!!!!! LOL! Nice post man, you basically took the words out of my mouth. Championship caliber teams use their draft picks. Drews decision will continue to cripple the Hawks growth.

I don't know why i keep posting on this topic. I don't see what there is to back up this assertion. Go back and look at the 23rd pick in the draft for the last few years and see how they are doing. Sure you can pick the odd guy out of the haystack who was a late pick and did well but the overwhelming majority of guys that late in the draft don't pan out.

I'm pulling for Jenkins every step of the way but 2 games in i'm going to trust the guys who watch him everyday in practice. I'm sure he'll get a chance eventually.

[willthepureshooter]

I don't know why i keep posting on this topic. I don't see what there is to back up this assertion. Go back and look at the 23rd pick in the draft for the last few years and see how they are doing. Sure you can pick the odd guy out of the haystack who was a late pick and did well but the overwhelming majority of guys that late in the draft don't pan out. I'm pulling for Jenkins every step of the way but 2 games in i'm going to trust the guys who watch him everyday in practice. I'm sure he'll get a chance eventually.

Yeah, continue to trust the same guy trying to turn a 5 year journeyman into a heavy rotation player. Or starting a one-dimensional shooter in Korver at small forward. No other coach has done it for good reasons. Why continue to try and reinvent the wheel?

[DatWerkk]

Go back and look at the 23rd pick in the draft for the last few years and see how they are doing. Sure you can pick the odd guy out of the haystack who was a late pick and did well but the overwhelming majority of guys that late in the draft don't pan out.

Last 10 23rd overall draft picks and their career stats (minutes per game in rookie season in parens)

Nikola Mirotic Has yet to play in NBA

Trevor Booker 7pts/5rbs (16.5mpg)

Omri Casspi 9pts/4rbs (25.1mpg)

Kosta Koufos 4pts/3rbs (11.8mpg)

Wilson Chandler 14pts/5rbs (19.6mpg)

Josh Boone 5pts/5rbs (11.0mpg)

Francisco Garcia 9pts/3rbs (19.4mpg)

Sergei Monia 3pts/2rbs (14.6mpg)

Travis Outlaw 9pts/3rbs (2.4mpg)

Tayshaun Prince 12.5pts/6rbs (25.5mpg)

I would say that at least half of these guys turned out to be good NBA players. And with the exception of Travis Outlaw, ALL of them got to see playing time their rookie seasons.

[maljanNBAfan]

Completely agree...there is no need to rush him if he is not ready. Groom him to be a solid NBA player...D-League is perfect for that.

I also agree, but unless you think Harris/Morrow/Korver are better fits long term, it's good to see where Jenkins stands as a potential contributor moving forward. The Hawks will probably make the playoffs this season, but they aren't winning the title. The idea here is to get Jenkins feet wet as much as possible as soon as possible, which I'm sure the Hawks will eventually do.

[AHF]

Last 10 23rd overall draft picks and their career stats (minutes per game in rookie season in parens)

Nikola Mirotic Has yet to play in NBA

Trevor Booker 7pts/5rbs (16.5mpg)

Omri Casspi 9pts/4rbs (25.1mpg)

Kosta Koufos 4pts/3rbs (11.8mpg)

Wilson Chandler 14pts/5rbs (19.6mpg)

Josh Boone 5pts/5rbs (11.0mpg)

Francisco Garcia 9pts/3rbs (19.4mpg)

Sergei Monia 3pts/2rbs (14.6mpg)

Travis Outlaw 9pts/3rbs (2.4mpg)

Tayshaun Prince 12.5pts/6rbs (25.5mpg)

I would say that at least half of these guys turned out to be good NBA players. And with the exception of Travis Outlaw, ALL of them got to see playing time their rookie seasons.

If it makes you feel better, I guarantee that Jenkins will get minutes at some point this season and will finish with a higher mpg than some of the guys on your list (at least Outlaw!).

Tayshaun Prince is an interesting data point since he got 40 DNP-CDs his rookie season. Obviously, he turned out all right.

Edited November 6, 2012 by AHF