Relax. This is exactly what Ferry needs to see...

[ryandauwalker]

It was obvious without seeing the team day-in and day-out that JJ needed to go. So he did that to perfection right from the beginning and got a slew of expirings and fillers. Yes we have flexibility, which is amazing considering the predicament we were in. But there is something that is less talked about...By trading JJ and Marvin for tons of expirings, he essentially said "I want to build this team from the ground up, and I'm using this season to evaluate our team." He knew he needed more time to study these players, coaches, and the organization as a whole.The absolute worst thing that could happen to the Hawks is if Josh played uncharacteristically well, and Ferry wouldn't see his tendency towards erratic play. But Ferry is seeing our team, studying our tendencies, and looking for solutions. You can GUARANTEE that. I'm glad Ferry is now getting armed with complete information as opposed to working off a hunch or seeing the players not as they truly are.Ferry is seeing the Hawks as they are, warts and all. It hurts now, but we are just taking our medicine.

[DrReality]

Have to agree. With a tweek here n there we could find the pieces to take this team to the next level.

[Ruckus]

Unfortunately others GMs are also seeing this.

[AHawks89]

Four games in and people are going APE shit. We knew this is our step back year, but yet we have crazy fans going APE shit on these boards because certain players are not playing at an All Star level yet and we're not winning early games. It's pathetic and funny to sit back and watch. I honestly think it's all the haters coming out trying to get any dirty on a certain player and then blast them. It's early in the season, four games early in the season, and this is our step back season. Chill the hell out.Thank god Ferry is not one of these overreacting fans. It's 4 games people. He's studying and looking around. I wish he had the power to change the worst fans in all sports (Hawks fans) to the best.

Edited November 10, 2012 by AHawks89

[High5]

Josh will probably play at an elite level over the next few games and the vicious circle of hope will continue.

[AHawks89]

If you look at the users who bash players, look at their post history and it shows it's the same ol same people that have been doing it. I used to get annoyed by it, but now it's easy to see right through them.

[ryandauwalker]

Look at Marvin Williams's and Joe Johnson's stats right now... Now ask yourself how can you be pissed AT ALL about anything as a Hawks fan??This GM has shown he is capable... He's probably already the best GM in Hawks history, and he's earned your trust. So relax!

[Wretch]

There are angry fans on every team - trolls & haters. There is no rational discussion to be had with those kinds of people. For whatever reason, they're angry, or they're upset, or they just...don't like a particular player. There is a huge difference between being critical and being an asshat or a hater. However, just like there's no point discussing things with a hater, there's no point in discussing things with those who can't see that difference.

I have never been that guy. I didn't dump on Marvin. I defended Josh Childress all the way out of the door and to Greece. I stood by Acie Law. I told people not to give up on Teague (look). I gave Billy Knight like...4 seasons before I took a side. Even though he passed on the guy that I REALLY wanted for Marvin Williams.

All that being said...

I am not criticizing Danny Ferry. I'd have to be a moron to do that. There's nothing to criticize yet. The guy hasn't even been with us a full season. Am I skeptical? Of course. Every Hawks fan has a right to be. Am I angry because Josh is still here? No. I really don't want to see him in another uniform.

Am I concerned? Yes. Slightly. Always.

There is no point to this season. Just like there was no point in trying to win after we dumped SAR and Theo in 2004. I understand the concept just doesn't make sense to some people, but at some point you've got to not concern yourself with the wins. You don't necessarily try to lose on purpose or just throw a crap product on the floor in hopes of getting the worst record. But you change how you approach the game.

You are either bottom, middle, or on the top and there's a different set of priorities with each. Priorities at the bottom and top go without saying. It's the middle that has people confused. But you have to ask yourself...are you truly close to the front of the pack or are you in the true middle slowly creeping towards the back. One of those positions, you make moves to WIN. The other....not so much.

I think some of you guys think we're closer than we are.

But I really do understand...

You're a fan and you don't want to see your team lose. You don't believe in the lottery - it is a difficult and inexact science. You believe in the team game and you hate the fact that one or two guys dominate the ball. You think there are only 4 or 5 really good players in the league on 1 or 2 teams and there is no way we could ever acquire one because they are so rare.

I mean...I get it. It is my hope that Danny Ferry "gets it" too.

This is not a team that has historically drawn the tier 1 free agents though. We're not even in the discussion. Is somebody going to refute that? I'd love to hear the argument, but the Hawks team that I've watched over the years has trouble luring Shaq on the very butt end of his career. So, if your plan is to avoid losing and lure free agents here (as opposed to any other method), then what exactly is going to attract them? Just because you have the cap space, it doesn't mean that players are going to come.

Players want to win big games. If you're not in the running for the big games, then you're not in the running for their services. They don't want to come here and give hope to us diehard fans. They don't want to put basketball on the map in Atlanta. They want to be playing late in the season with...well, you already know the names.

So if free agency isn't the big ticket, then what do you do? Trade? See...here we go. I'm saying it...TRADE. Do it. Either trade your talent and shuffle things around, or keep the status quo because it's so early in the season. I have my opinion on what's going to happen if we don't make a move. No point in discussing that, but if Ferry doesn't make the move soon...then what is he waiting on?

?

Is he trying to build the value so he can deal it?

What could any of our guys do to change their value drastically by February? Josh Smith is WELL scouted and people know what he brings. Same with Al. The only thing waiting does is give them a chance to get hurt or perform poorly to lower their value. There is no point in waiting just to try and build value.

Is he wanting to see how the players perform because we intend to keep the core?

I'm not going to comment on this again.

Is he expecting that we will make the playoffs and with the cap space we'll be able to attract the kind of talent that will put this core over the top?

This goes back to what I was originally alluding to, getting the Tier 1 guys here is an exercise in futility. By the way, as is...this team is going to the playoffs. Bank on it.

So what is the recourse to this quandary?

It's not "DUR! DIVE INTO THE LOTTERY AND GETZ MICHAEL JORDAN 2.0! HURRY UP FERRY!!!" That's not it at all. It is at this point that you do what it takes to reshape your team. Put guys on the block, get young talent and draft picks. Stop worrying about the season and trying to be competitive. You rebuild.

This is the down cycle in the NBA. Every team hits it. Maybe not the Lakers or Mavericks with Cuban at the helm.... But the down cycle happens and when it does, you go with it and you put the focus on finding the talent that's going to bring you back to the top.

Winning without losing.

Pete Babcock and Lenny Wilkins had this idea that you could just ignore the draft and ignore major change. They called it "winning without losing." The idea was that they could win 50+ games and just continually plug in talent to maintain a level of competitiveness. This is very hard to do. For one reason - other teams are not following that formula. Somebody will stumble upon the right mix and it will shift the landscape. This isn't predicting the future or speculation. This isn't rambling rhetoric. We have SEEN this.

We have seen Miami come into the league as an expansion club, and suck... Then acquire talent, build an immediate and memorable culture (and a rivalry with NY), only for them to fall from grace. Then they find Wade, they make a deal for Shaq, BOOM...new culture, big wins, and the ultimate prize...then they fall again. They middle around like we do. Even end up in the lottery. We fight with them in the middle of the pack and then BOOM...now they have a championship team again.

Seen Boston rise and fall and rise.

Seen the Lakers rise and fall and rise.

Seen Orlando rise and fall and rise.

Seen Seattle/OKC rise and fall and rise.

How long before we see Charlotte back on top? They're a joke now, but they are dipping into the franchise pool. Same with New Orleans. Washington... And what have we done?

What Danny Ferry has to realize that we need to be IN the cycle. The focus has to be on rising from mediocrity. Not with a homerun lottery pick and not with a surprising trade that nets a Jeremy Lin type breakout. It's not that simple, but the idea is very simple...you have to mentality to get out of the middle. And there's certain things you have to do to make that happen.

I'm not criticizing Danny Ferry. I'm anxiously waiting to see what his follow up is to removing Joe Johnson. Moreover, if we're truly trying to build something from the ground up, then I think that conversation starts with...

...making the deal. And you guys already know what that involves.

[Kimsey]

4 games out of 82, you yokels act like you never seen NBA basketball before like some citizen in a rural part of China or Africa. Give the team and coaches some decent time to sift through the turbulence.

[frankthetank966]

Great post. Four games in the Hawks have looked really impressive. Once they start to mesh as a unit they will be even better. So far I'm disappointed with Harris. He hasn't shot well or passed well.

[Guest Walter]

Is he expecting that we will make the playoffs and with the cap space we'll be able to attract the kind of talent that will put this core over the top?

This goes back to what I was originally alluding to, getting the Tier 1 guys here is an exercise in futility. By the way, as is...this team is going to the playoffs. Bank on it.

With the trading of Howard (to LA of all places) and Harden (to be resigned), 2 of the 3 players worth maxing out IMO, I am all in on a rebuild. If we could get a guy like Leonard for JS, a guy that won't really hurt our lottery chances, I might be up for keeping Horford.

Look, we aren't getting a top lottery pick by trading just one of JS or Horford. This draft does have IMO three good to near top tier center prospects. Zeller, Gobert, and Alex Len. Also, Shabazz might be a steal since he was just named ineligible and may drop in the draft. Still this is a reach of a crap shoot for a draft position that likely won't put us over the top.

So, in short, Wretch are you suggesting we trade BOTH JS and Horford. Otherwise, we aren't going to be a TOP lottery team anytime soon without some extreme lottery luck.

W

[Wretch]

With the trading of Howard (to LA of all places) and Harden (to be resigned), 2 of the 3 players worth maxing out IMO, I am all in on a rebuild. If we could get a guy like Leonard for JS, a guy that won't really hurt our lottery chances, I might be up for keeping Horford. Look, we aren't getting a top lottery pick by trading just one of JS or Horford. This draft does have IMO three good to near top tier center prospects. Zeller, Gobert, and Alex Len. Also, Shabazz might be a steal since he was just named ineligible and may drop in the draft. Still this is a reach of a crap shoot for a draft position that likely won't put us over the top. So, in short, Wretch are you suggesting we trade BOTH JS and Horford. Otherwise, we aren't going to be a TOP lottery team anytime soon without some extreme lottery luck. W

Yeah...you could say that. It's not my preference, but I wouldn't be against it. Not at all. If that's what it takes to truly start a rebuilding process, then I'd pull the trigger. The only guy I'm really not interested in trading is Jeff Teague. He has a place here.

[Ruckus]

So.... Those in favor of trading Josh are just trolls? Guess I'm just a troll. LolDude you seriously have to get over your man crush and look at things more objectively.

[BrazilianHawk]

yup. I'm also a troll.4 games, 4 seasons... no differenfe when it comes to Josh. Or better yet, he's changing, but for the worse. Some fans just love certain players and can't think the team could be better without them. I never wanted JJ to go, but now I see it was for the betterment of the team. I believe Josh is the most selfish player in the team and that the Hawks would be better without him. Is that trolling? Is trolling just pointing out his selfish and stupid plays in very winnable games that we end up losing?

[Jody23]

I think much of the criticism of Josh this early in the season is not totally motivated by hate as some who really like him are very quick to conclude. Rather, I think alot of this is driven by concern for the longterm viability of the team and how the handling of Josh Smith's situation GREATLY affects that.There is no question Josh will be looking for a max or near max deal to re-sign with the Hawks. His agent will most assuredly use some of the ridiculous deals and extensions handed to other players recently to try and leverage that. I think fans should be rightly concerned about that. Would giving him a max type deal help this team get closer to a title or is it just trying to keep status quo because you really like him? His staunch fans and supporters are quick to point to his numbers last season while choosing not to mention how inefficient he was offensively in getting those numbers. The early games this season have shown that while very talented and versatile, he is clearly lacking in the offensive skill and efficiency to be the lead guy which is the role he's assuming on this team. The time is quickly approaching to decide whether to give him a huge deal and possibly straddle the team with yet another albatross contract or deal him to strengthen other positions of the team. Ferry only has a few months to make this decision.

[Peoriabird]

Josh Smith will not get a near max deal! I guarantee it! We said the same thing after his first contract and only 2 teams were interested with Philly ultimately signing 100 year old Elton Brand instead.

[Jody23]

Josh Smith will not get a near max deal! I guarantee it! We said the same thing after his first contract and only 2 teams were interested with Philly ultimately signing 100 year old Elton Brand instead.

In terms of the Hawks, I hope you're right. The danger though is if the Hawks go past the trade deadline without trading him, the Hawks will face some pressure from his fan base to re-sign him and Josh will be asking for more than the 13 million per he's making currently.

[DrReality]

A big part of why any board is used so much . . . . . . . . to vent frustration. Agree with above postSmoove is selfishDisappointed in Harris so far.And that I'm really pleased to see how we've played thus far.

[Ruckus]

I think much of the criticism of Josh this early in the season is not totally motivated by hate as some who really like him are very quick to conclude. Rather, I think alot of this is driven by concern for the longterm viability of the team and how the handling of Josh Smith's situation GREATLY affects that.

Completely agree. Why others fail to see this is mind boggling to me. I understand he is a hometown favorite but do guys want to win or not?? Josh is not a championship caliber player. This is a statement of fact not hate. Al might not be a star on a championship team but he def has the makeup of a championship caliber player. He is smart, unselfish, and hardworking. I don't think people realize that if we sign Josh we will have no chance of building a contender. Simple as that. And if we don't sign him he will obviously walk.... Which puts us in a position where he needs to be traded. It's so easy to call us trolls and haters because you do not understand this.

[Jody23]

Completely agree. Why others fail to see this is mind boggling to me. I understand he is a hometown favorite but do guys want to win or not?? Josh is not a championship caliber player. This is a statement of fact not hate. Al might not be a star on a championship team but he def has the makeup of a championship caliber player. He is smart, unselfish, and hardworking. I don't think people realize that if we sign Josh we will have no chance of building a contender. Simple as that. And if we don't sign him he will obviously walk.... Which puts us in a position where he needs to be traded. It's so easy to call us trolls and haters because you do not understand this.

Alot of it is sentimental because he is from Atlanta. Alot of it is holding on to hope that he can convince Dwight to come here. They fear losing that fleeting hope if Josh is traded. Of course, neither line of reasoning is an effective wat to build a successful franchise.