Trade Josh, Extend Drew

[ryandauwalker]

This is a really tough team to coach, and I think that Drew is handling it very well. His system has helped guys who were considered other teams' garbage be very good contributors both offensively and defensively. It is based around being fundamentally sound, defensively aware, and requires a high BBIQ.I don't want to get into bashing Josh because its not even about that. He has good games and bad games, but he simply does not fit within everybody else. Low BBIQ is so detrimental to a team and this system... Unless we get a LeBron or a Kobe, this is the way we can win: the Spurs way. I'm certainly not saying that Drew is Popavich, but now that Joe is gone, we can begin to construct a team that plays the game the right way.

Edited December 1, 2012 by ryandauwalker

[AHawks89]

*Yawn* Another overreacting thread.

[ryandauwalker]

*Yawn* Another overreacting thread.

This isn't about today's game. Josh had a very good game in many respects, and on the last play, boxing out when you're pinned under the basket is not easy.I'm certainly not a hater... The timing of the post does not mean that it's emotionally driven. We have to deal with Josh's situation and suggesting we trade him before he hits FA is far from illogical. Edited December 1, 2012 by ryandauwalker

[GameTime]

Drew is not even a Spoelstra.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Okay, Who is willing to bet me that Josh will be on this team next year? You can talk the trade talks.... But I'm telling you it's a waste of time. :-)

[Jody23]

Okay, Who is willing to bet me that Josh will be on this team next year? You can talk the trade talks.... But I'm telling you it's a waste of time. :-)

I won't bet against you. Lol. But, Josh and Al need help inside.

[frankthetank966]

So you think trading one of the best defensive players in the NBA right now is the right move? Josh is a major contributor to this team. Yes he makes several bone head moves a game and so do most NBA players. However most NBA players are not as good defensively as josh. He also is great passing PF. Hawks need a swingman that's all.

[Admin]

This isn't about today's game. Josh had a very good game in many respects, and on the last play, boxing out when you're pinned under the basket is not easy.I'm certainly not a hater... The timing of the post does not mean that it's emotionally driven. We have to deal with Josh's situation and suggesting we trade him before he hits FA is far from illogical.

You're not going to get an actual discussion from a Josh homer, he's just going to sarcastically make fun of your post and then offer nothing in return. Might as well move on.

[Admin]

I won't bet against you. Lol. But, Josh and Al need help inside.

Yep we will never win anything of significance with Al and Josh starting at the 4/5. Whether that means trading one or both of them or finding an upgrade over Zaza at the 5 and sliding Al and Josh down I don't know, but we can't win consistently with those 2 starting at the 4 and 5.

The biggest problem is that we need to temper our excitement and realize that this team isn't as good as their 6 game winning streak sounded like and we are a highly flawed team who are going to look drastically different next year.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

I won't bet against you. Lol. But, Josh and Al need help inside.

I don't know how he would have done it but I wished Ivan would have played more mins.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Yep we will never win anything of significance with Al and Josh starting at the 4/5. Whether that means trading one or both of them or finding an upgrade over Zaza at the 5 and sliding Al and Josh down I don't know, but we can't win consistently with those 2 starting at the 4 and 5.

The biggest problem is that we need to temper our excitement and realize that this team isn't as good as their 6 game winning streak sounded like and we are a highly flawed team who are going to look drastically different next year.

We will have help next year. And I think they will still have AL and Josh.

[Admin]

We will have help next year. And I think they will still have AL and Josh.

I know who you're hoping for and I hope that you're right... but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

[rusty]

Talk about low basketball iq ,LD is the one who has that.He had a 7 or 8 point lead going into the 4th quarter.he sits JT on the bench & goes with Harris & Williams until we lose the lead. We need JT in the lineup in the first quarter we have a lead he takes JT out goes with Harris& Williams.we need rebounding & even though Ivan played great he doesn't give him minutes. LD let's Josh lead the fast break & don't make him stay inside & let's him try to be a pg. this coach is a joke.

[AHawks89]

You're not going to get an actual discussion from a Josh homer, he's just going to sarcastically make fun of your post and then offer nothing in return. Might as well move on.

I think some people are a bit tired of debating about Josh since this type of thread occurs on every little mistake he does. Also, there is really nothing to argue about on this topic. We know what Josh brings to the table offensively and defensively, and we know he makes mistakes as well as any other NBA player or superstar.

[ryandauwalker]

I think some people are a bit tired of debating about Josh since this type of thread occurs on every little mistake he does. Also, there is really nothing to argue about on this topic. We know what Josh brings to the table offensively and defensively, and we know he makes mistakes as well as any other NBA player or superstar.

This is not a Josh-bashing thread. It is a simple statement that LD's system uses high BBIQ players, and I think throughout the season, we will over perform based on our talent level. Like Joe, I don't think he is a good fit based on that system. We are also getting murdered on the glass quite often and won't be relevant until we figure out a new 4/5 (+1 Dolfan).I am in the camp where I would trade Josh based on FIT even though I think he is a very good player. While the team will look different next year, frankly, I love watching us play as its quality basketball. It has nothing to do with last night and nothing to do about a mistake he made. Don't get dramatic and act like everybody who has an opinion similar to mine has a vendetta... It's simply not true.

[TheFuzz]

This is not a Josh-bashing thread. It is a simple statement that LD's system uses high BBIQ players, and I think throughout the season, we will over perform based on our talent level. Like Joe, I don't think he is a good fit based on that system. We are also getting murdered on the glass quite often and won't be relevant until we figure out a new 4/5 (+1 Dolfan).I am in the camp where I would trade Josh based on FIT even though I think he is a very good player. While the team will look different next year, frankly, I love watching us play as its quality basketball. It has nothing to do with last night and nothing to do about a mistake he made. Don't get dramatic and act like everybody who has an opinion similar to mine has a vendetta... It's simply not true.

Josh has been playing closer to the basket SO FAR not counting last night, particularly when he has a size advantage. Against Varejao, Zeller, and Thompson (a pretty nice front-line, actually), he didn't have that size advantage. I'd like to get another big man so Josh can play the 3 more. If Josh can be an effective Marion-style hybrid forward, we keep him. If not, he probably should go, and you're right in that it's not a bashing thing. We just don't have room for him.

[thecampster]

This isn't about today's game. Josh had a very good game in many respects, and on the last play, boxing out when you're pinned under the basket is not easy.I'm certainly not a hater... The timing of the post does not mean that it's emotionally driven. We have to deal with Josh's situation and suggesting we trade him before he hits FA is far from illogical.

I'm going to do my best to explain the impending Josh free agency thing to you. Trading him now is the worst possible thing the Hawks can do.

1. Assume in F/A Josh finds a deal with another team. There will be multiple teams vying for his services and he is going to hold out for the best deal. No matter who signs him, it will be in their best interest to work out a sign and trade with the Hawks. This is the Hawks best chance to get the best assets in return.

2. Assume Josh's season continues to be less than Josh like offensively. Although Josh's contributions on defense are truly top 5 in the league, fans don't buy into defense wins championships. They buy tickets for scorers. If Josh's season continues as it is, he will be signable for much less than the maximum by the Hawks, setting us up nicely for the free agent class of 2013.

3. Assume you trade him now. You are locked into getting similar value for Josh. We are over the salary cap, under the luxury tax. We can take back no more than 4 million more in salary than what Josh is currently making and most teams that would trade for Josh now are already at the LT threshold. They are not currently looking to give up their current assets to acquire Josh and would only trade us trash and draft picks. Our lack of a core going into next year will scare off many potential free agents. Failing to try to keep your own star is the best way to not acquire FA's.

4. We currently have about 40 million in assets that are highly trade worthy. Al is coveted around the league. Teague is making a name for himself. Harris' expiring is our most worthy asset as is Zaza, Korver, Morrow, Petro's contracts are all all noteworthy as expirings. The only players on our roster that are not considered a commodity right now are Mike Scott, Deshawn Stevenson (2 year deal) and Josh Smith. Because of the potential to walk if not resigned, Josh is not a player teams want to acquire unless they are making a run at a title this year and he has to fit with what that team is trying to do. There are only a handful of teams in the league Josh would fit with right now that are contender worthy, have assets to trade back equal to his 13 million dollar salary and would take the risk he wouldn't re-sign (ie...Lakers for example).

Considering all I just said, if you wish to trade Josh a sign and trade in the off-season is your best option to make all parties happy.

[coachx]

I'm going to do my best to explain the impending Josh free agency thing to you. Trading him now is the worst possible thing the Hawks can do. 1. Assume in F/A Josh finds a deal with another team. There will be multiple teams vying for his services and he is going to hold out for the best deal. No matter who signs him, it will be in their best interest to work out a sign and trade with the Hawks. This is the Hawks best chance to get the best assets in return

Please name 1 sign and trade deal where the team losing the unrestricted free agent got a good return.

The only times I recall getting a good return in a S&T is when it was RFA situation where the team with Bird Rights has the power to match any offer. That leverage causes the bidding team to throw in draft picks or assets in fear their offer will be matched if they do not. With unrestricted free agents this seems much more rare.

Edited December 4, 2012 by coachx

[MaceCase]

Sign and trade rules have also changed.

The free agent gets zero benefit from it for one. No more Bird pay raises or extra years can be attached so it is no different than them just signing outright somewhere else. What that also means is only teams near (just below or just above) the cap would consider it. Lux tax teams can no longer sign and trade and teams with cap space need not worry about shedding salary so any GM that is thinking that he can drag his feet and wait til free agency to recoup assets has lost the war already.

[Admin]

Sign and trade rules have also changed.

The free agent gets zero benefit from it for one. No more Bird pay raises or extra years can be attached so it is no different than them just signing outright somewhere else. What that also means is only teams near (just below or just above) the cap would consider it. Lux tax teams can no longer sign and trade and teams with cap space need not worry about shedding salary so any GM that is thinking that he can drag his feet and wait til free agency to recoup assets has lost the war already.

I disagree there as I would suspect that many teams would want to shed some salary even if they're under the cap so that they can pay a FA more and/or make more moves in free agency. The question is whether we'd want to take on those contracts that they'd want to unload and what else we might get for our troubles.