Josh Smith haters don't want a championship...

[Cwell]

5 year 55 million meh I'm straght5 year 60 million blah5 year 65 million get outta here5 year 70 Million hell nah5 year 75 million F*** NAH KILL YOURSELF

fixed

[Vol4ever]

IMO, keeping Josh is not a step in the right direction. Josh actually thinks he is a superstar and he falls way short of that. Josh has a low BBIQ and not a team player. We would do much better to get players that are team first self second type players on this team.I'm in the Al Jefferson camp, legit big man in the post that will take the heat off our shooters. We have nothing but shooters on this team, thus we need balance.

[effjee14]

Been hawksquawk member since 2001. I like our team right now. I think we're in a good place. No trade we will be able to make is truly going to help us become contenders (for josh). We just need to add pieces around our core. Hawks would be a dark horse once the playoffs started had Lou Williams not gotten injured. Love the way this team plays as a team

[thecampster]

I am sorry but just how many championships have we won with Josh again? You Josh lovers act like he is some superstar that we can't win without. I would go as far to say that he is overpaid now. Like I stated in other posts no one wants Josh to build around him. He is no leader. The teams that want him want him as the 3rd or 4th option. We can't turn into a respectable franchise by maxing out 2nd and 3rd tier guys like Josh Smith. his athletic ability will be on the wan and we will be stuck paying this guy 23 million dollars down the line.

Stats would agree with the Josh lovers. in the last 4.5 years, the Hawks are 213-150 in the regular season for a 58.68 winning percentage. They are 11-12 (including 3-0 this year) for a 47.8% winning percentage (39 win borderline playoff team) and 59.4% with him (a 49 win team). The sample is big enough to be significant. If anything, the 3-0 this year throws off the previous sample of being a 42% team without Smith or 34-35 win a year team.

[thecampster]

This...Keeping Smith for the contract he's demanding will only return them to the same level they were when they gave JJ that monster deal a few years ago; capped out, with little/no shot at bringing in REAL players, let alone winning a title. In this league, you simply cannot win without star talent leading the way. Sure, you can win 45-50 games and every now and then get to the second round in the playoffs but that's the furthest you will ever go. Only the big boys get to stay on the train beyond that point; that's a fact (and please, don't give the 'Detroit model' as some example we could follow because we aren't them). You are either doing what it takes to earn a ticket to stay on the train or you are just a spectator. Maxing out Josh while staying away from the luxury tax sends a flaming hit neon sign where our team is...

What legitimate news source says he's demanded anything. He was asked by a reporter if he thinks he's a max player. He said yes. That is very different than demanding a contract ala Lebron.

[coachx]

Stats would agree with the Josh lovers. in the last 4.5 years, the Hawks are 213-150 in the regular season for a 58.68 winning percentage. They are 11-12 (including 3-0 this year) for a 47.8% winning percentage (39 win borderline playoff team) and 59.4% with him (a 49 win team). The sample is big enough to be significant. If anything, the 3-0 this year throws off the previous sample of being a 42% team without Smith or 34-35 win a year team.

Do you want to keep Josh Smith ?Point blank question. No stats or computer talk needed.

[AHF]

Stats would agree with the Josh lovers. in the last 4.5 years, the Hawks are 213-150 in the regular season for a 58.68 winning percentage. They are 11-12 (including 3-0 this year) for a 47.8% winning percentage (39 win borderline playoff team) and 59.4% with him (a 49 win team). The sample is big enough to be significant. If anything, the 3-0 this year throws off the previous sample of being a 42% team without Smith or 34-35 win a year team.

How is a 23 game sample statistically significant when measuring a 12% difference? That 12% is well within the margin of error and is therefore statistically insignificant.

[Admin]

What legitimate news source says he's demanded anything. He was asked by a reporter if he thinks he's a max player. He said yes. That is very different than demanding a contract ala Lebron.

LeBron demanded less than the max and even got paid less than Wade. That's what real stars who put the team first do.

[supermariowest]

How is a 23 game sample statistically significant when measuring a 12% difference? That 12% is well within the margin of error and is therefore statistically insignificant.

12% would be a pretty large margin of error.But I agree with your larger point: assuming a 23 game sample is large enough (and I don't think this is true), this result would still not be statistically significant. The sample size would have to be around 50 for the difference to be statistically significant.A kind note to the reader: Not that it's terribly hard to run a quick significance test, but I do have a degree in Statistics. Edited February 18, 2013 by supermariowest

[Admin]

12% would be a pretty large margin of error.But I agree with your larger point: assuming a 23 game sample is large enough (and I don't think this is true), this result would still not be statistically significant. The sample size would have to be around 50 for the difference to be statistically significant.A kind note to the reader: Not that it's terribly hard to run a quick significance test, but I do have a degree in Statistics.

Well we can always use more statistical experts around here to balance out us lay people who've been told not to use stats that we don't fully understand lol

[plskeepbibby]

This topic makes me laugh, I believe it was the 2010 season where the hawks had their best season as currently constructed, Josh was probably the biggest part of why they were the #3 seed coming into the playoffs. What happened during those playoffs.... I'm pretty sure that the Hawks got taken to a must win game 6, only to close out an overmatched Milwaukee Bucks in game 7. Only to get swept by Lebron James and the Cavaliers in the next round.Just one example..... I think it is safe to say that not having Josh is not necessarily a piece that is a MUST to win a championship. He is and will always be an extremely poor man's LeBron James, if we are even allowed to use those to in the same sentence.

[AHF]

12% would be a pretty large margin of error.But I agree with your larger point: assuming a 23 game sample is large enough (and I don't think this is true), this result would still not be statistically significant. The sample size would have to be around 50 for the difference to be statistically significant.A kind note to the reader: Not that it's terribly hard to run a quick significance test, but I do have a degree in Statistics.

Agreed. You typically need 2 standard deviations to be statistically significant. For those who never run statistics, the smaller the sample set the less difference the % variation makes.

This sample set is at 1.09 standard deviations so it isn't very close to being statistically significant.

If you think about it this way, if the Hawks won two of those games instead of losing them then the %s are virtually identical. That is well within the range of potentially random results (different scheduling, injuries, good/bad nights, etc.).

Edited February 18, 2013 by AHF

[Bahamut]

Josh Smith is not that guy and in many ways he is the OPPOSITE of that guy - Smoove creates offense for the other team.

Ha! So true!!

[Guest]

How has this thread gone on for 3 pages and no one has posted this yet?

Comedy Central

http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/v64ifb/chappelle-s-show-the-playa-hater-s-ball

Edited February 18, 2013 by hawksfanatic

[bruincoach]

Been hawksquawk member since 2001. I like our team right now. I think we're in a good place. No trade we will be able to make is truly going to help us become contenders (for josh). We just need to add pieces around our core. Hawks would be a dark horse once the playoffs started had Lou Williams not gotten injured. Love the way this team plays as a team

Problem is we have to look to the future. Not an nba champion AND need pieces. Will get NOtHING when josh walks

[yungsta]

this topic would of made sense if he was a big playoff performer.

Out of 46 playoff games the only games I remember where he truly excelled was bulls game 4 in 2011, bucks game 2 in 2010, celtics game 3 in 08, miami game 1 in 09. Notice how all of those games were at home?

Most of the time he put ups stinkers where he is shooting 20 or 30 percent and is helping the other team with his bonehead plays.

How can you win a championship building around someone like that? :lol6:

[Admin]

For the most part he was actually very good in the Celtics series last year and even came back and played well injured, when he should have been recovering. But yeah for the most part in his playoff career he's been bad, along with most of our other players.

[drzachary]

I'm having a pretty stressful day, so I keep coming back to Hawksquawk just to see the title of this topic. I immediately start cackling and feel a lot better.

Thanks, OP!

[MaceCase]

For the most part he was actually very good in the Celtics series last year and even came back and played well injured, when he should have been recovering. But yeah for the most part in his playoff career he's been bad, along with most of our other players.

He had tendonitis or at least that was what the official word was on his injury. It's the same issue people are killing Pau over having when it's a pretty typical ailment for any athlete regardless of level of play or age. Joe sat out a few regular season games with it last year too and LD even said it's all up to Josh if he wants to play through it (which he took offense to, of course). Beyond that he was terrible, shot very often and awfully and the vaunted rebounding numbers were against one of the historically worst offensive rebounding teams. The Celtics conceded offensive boards to us (and everybody) to prevent transition opportunities yet even then Josh didn't manage a total rebound rate even on par with Dwight's career average (this is why you don't trust raw volume stats).

[Peoriabird]

Stats would agree with the Josh lovers. in the last 4.5 years, the Hawks are 213-150 in the regular season for a 58.68 winning percentage. They are 11-12 (including 3-0 this year) for a 47.8% winning percentage (39 win borderline playoff team) and 59.4% with him (a 49 win team). The sample is big enough to be significant. If anything, the 3-0 this year throws off the previous sample of being a 42% team without Smith or 34-35 win a year team.

Doesn't your study assume we don't replace him with someone better?